Windows 8, enough after about 2 hours


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justmike

Sadly, no matter how much people may hate Windows 8 and Metro, it will sell big. Simply because it will be installed on all those smaller and cheaper devices. In the past their sales numbers for an OS were for desktops, but that is about to change in a big way. Even if people don't buy a copy, it was already paid for on a device that has it installed. This is the perfect opportunity for MS to start taking over the portable market, to make Windows phone line up better with the OS, to push their Store into the market, to push their cloud storage into the market, to further advertise Xbox, to get more people using their Live sign-in for everything, and the list goes on. No one is FORCING people to use Windows 8, but eventually it is what will be on all new systems, and all those copies that are sometimes free, or almost free (like where I work) for your government and educational systems. :/

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Petvas

I would develop a separate version for tablets, try to make the whole platform more attractive to developers by easing development for tablets, phones and PCs and work with OEMs in bringing top hardware.

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Southern Patriot

No, it isn't.

Dictionary.com would tend to disagree:

dis?rup?tion? ?[dis-ruhp-shuhn] Show IPA

noun

1. forcible separation or division into parts.

2. a disrupted condition: The state was in disruption.

Windows 8 is forcibly separated into two parts: Metro and Desktop

awk?ward? ?[awk-werd] Show IPA

adjective

1. lacking skill or dexterity; clumsy.

2. lacking grace or ease in movement: an awkward gesture; an awkward dancer.

3. lacking social graces or manners: a simple, awkward frontiersman.

4. not well planned or designed for easy or effective use: an awkward instrument; an awkward method.

5. requiring caution; somewhat hazardous; dangerous: an awkward turn in the road.

I feel that the one that I highlighted is particularly appropriate to Windows 8's Metro interface when used with a mouse.

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Dot Matrix

I would develop a separate version for tablets, try to make the whole platform more attractive to developers by easing development for tablets, phones and PCs and work with OEMs in bringing top hardware.

Why have three operating systems? Why complicate things? They ARE making things attractive for developers - think about it, Windows proper has 90% market share. Now throw that same Windows onto ARM tablets. Boom. Two birds with one stone.

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Southern Patriot

Why have three operating systems? Why complicate things? They ARE making things attractive for developers - think about it, Windows proper has 90% market share. Now throw that same Windows onto ARM tablets. Boom. Two birds with one stone.

The same could be said for automobiles. Why have trucks, cars, and motorcycles when everyone could simply drive trucks to get everywhere?

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Active.

Well, think about it. Microsoft is doing just that.

Huh? How is Microsoft "doing just that"?! If Microsoft wanted to copy Apple, they'd have desktops and laptops boot onto the Desktop, make the Metro-Launcher optional and only offer apps on their store that, on desktops and laptops, are specifically designed for keyboard and mouse input, that can be run in windowed mode or full screen, whichever way suits you best. Microsoft is doing the exact thing that people were afraid of, Apple might do, but which they haven't actually done. That you're still allowed to continue using your existing apps is small comfort here. Look, the reason Microsoft is putting an unchanged tablet version of Metro on desktop computers is not in the interest of user experience, it's mainly a strategic decision. They need to somehow leverage their existing desktop user base to make creating Metro apps for developers more appealing than if the target market was tablet users only, which, compared to iPad users, is currently a minuscule market.

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migo

You're wrong about awkward, it's very well planned, you're just not bright enough to realise it.

Metro and Legacy aren't forcibly separated. While they are distinct, they still integrate.

Besides, the start screen is just plain better than the start menu, search is faster and better organised, and you can customise which apps you have and in what order they appear, something that has never been possible with the start menu.

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Active.
Metro and Legacy aren't forcibly separated. While they are distinct, they still integrate.

They integrate as well as it is possible to integrate such different UI paradigms. I actually think Microsoft is doing a pretty good job in that regard, it's just that the idea of offering them both at the same time is flawed at best.

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Petvas

Why have three operating systems? Why complicate things? They ARE making things attractive for developers - think about it, Windows proper has 90% market share. Now throw that same Windows onto ARM tablets. Boom. Two birds with one stone.

Apple has two OSes and developers can very easy develop apps for both. A desktop computer works differently than a tablet or phone. Having the exact same GUI is not how I want a computer to work. Apple has a much different approach. They acknowledge the different needs and try to create a coherent experience between the two OSes by bring familiar features and software to the Mac. They use many similar GUI elements but the Mac apps behave like computer apps, whilst the iOS apps like mobile ones. With Windows 8 you have Metro and that's it. On a PC Metro is a waste of space..

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Dot Matrix

Just put it this way, those who are resisting, ask yourself this, did Microsoft bring back the Program Manager for those who resisted Windows 95? No. Did they bring back DOS for those who resisted the GUI? No. Did they bring back the old 9x era Start Menu for those who resisted Windows 7? No.

So, those of you who are waiting with baited breath for Windows 9 are going to be in for a quite a disappointment I think. The need for change is there. The old Start Menu is gone, and has a slim chance of coming back. So what are you going to do?

The desktop is evolving. Microsoft knows this. Apple knows this. Canonical knows this. So, are you going to evolve with it? Or die trying to resist?

Apple has two OSes and developers can very easy develop apps for both. A desktop computer works differently than a tablet or phone. Having the exact same GUI is not how I want a computer to work. Apple has a much different approach. They acknowledge the different needs and try to create a coherent experience between the two OSes by bring familiar features and software to the Mac. They use many similar GUI elements but the Mac apps behave like computer apps, whilst the iOS apps like mobile ones. With Windows 8 you have Metro and that's it. On a PC Metro is a waste of space..

Apple has also had the same UI since the early 90's, and is quite archaic to use. The need for a new UI on the Mac is long overdue.

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xWhiplash

There is something I really want to know. Since when did having a start menu become outdated?

IMO, Microsoft is doing this the wrong way. They should have done the same thing Apple did with Lion, make Metro 100% optional. In OS X Lion, there is a feature called Launchpad which brings an iOS looking screen in view. Launchpad is 100% optional.

This is a bad move by Microsoft. Windows 8 should have had Metro be 100% optional and triggered by something like Launchpad does in OS X. What we see now should have waited until Windows 9

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Active.
The need for change is there. [...]

The desktop is evolving.

[...]

So, are you going to evolve with it? Or die trying to resist?

Change is worthless when it doesn't bring improvements with it. The real question then becomes, whether the marriage of legacy apps and the Metro approach in the current form improves the user experience on devices that aren't tablets. I remain unconvinced but am willing to be proven wrong, if only by Windows 8's success in the market.

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xWhiplash

Just put it this way, those who are resisting, ask yourself this, did Microsoft bring back the Program Manager for those who resisted Windows 95? No. Did they bring back DOS for those who resisted the GUI? No. Did they bring back the old 9x era Start Menu for those who resisted Windows 7? No.

So, those of you who are waiting with baited breath for Windows 9 are going to be in for a quite a disappointment I think. The need for change is there. The old Start Menu is gone, and has a slim chance of coming back. So what are you going to do?

The desktop is evolving. Microsoft knows this. Apple knows this. Canonical knows this. So, are you going to evolve with it? Or die trying to resist?

Apple has also had the same UI since the early 90's, and is quite archaic to use. The need for a new UI on the Mac is long overdue.

How about because Windows 95 was an actual improvement to what we had before?

We are actually losing functionality now going from 7 to 8. We are losing the most important thing in DESKTOP computing: multitasking. I have three monitors at my house. I have something like Photoshop on one screen, a video on another screen, and email or browser on the last screen.

Yes I realize I can just switch to desktop mode, but it is just one extra step now.

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Brandon Live

The thing about MetroTwit and Zune is that they were made with a mouse and keyboard in mind. WMC was designed with a controller or remote in mind. Metro does not apply to one specific device type. The issue with the Start Screen and other elements that are Metro in Windows 8 is that they are designed for touch, not a mouse and keyboard. The proof is in the amount of padding nearly every element has. There's so much of it that I think it takes away from the content. One perfect example is the network connections menu: It went from a decent sized popup in 7 to a bloated space wasting sidebar in 8. It's highly inconsistent, as well, considering the Action Center, Power Options, and Volume still retain their 7 look.

This is absolutely, positively untrue. We designed Start and the rest of the new shell for mouse and keyboard as well as touch. A huge amount of effort has gone into, for example, the keyboarding experience around searching your programs (and settings, files, etc).

It's a big change, like going from DOS -> Windows 3.1, or Windows 3.1 -> Windows 95. All the same complaints were heard back then too, "Mice are toys, professionals will never use them," and so on. But the world moves on.

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Southern Patriot

Just put it this way, those who are resisting, ask yourself this, did Microsoft bring back the Program Manager for those who resisted Windows 95? No.

Program Manager was available for use until Windows XP SP2

Did they bring back DOS for those who resisted the GUI? No.

Consumer versions of Windows could be booted to, or shut down to DOS until the release of Windows ME. Even NT based versions of Windows can be started to the Recovery Console, which is functionally equivalent to DOS in most respects

.

Did they bring back the old 9x era Start Menu for those who resisted Windows 7? No.

For Windows 7, no. but it was still possible up until then with XP and Vista. Even so, that was a gradual evolution of the start menu, and most of the same functionality was still present. I can still get to the entire list of programs quickly by hovering over the "All Programs" link for a second, which is nearly the same as how it has worked since Windows 95.

This is absolutely, positively untrue. We designed Start and the rest of the new shell for mouse and keyboard as well as touch. A huge amount of effort has gone into, for example, the keyboarding experience around searching your programs (and settings, files, etc).

It's a big change, like going from DOS -> Windows 3.1, or Windows 3.1 -> Windows 95. All the same complaints were heard back then too, "Mice are toys, professionals will never use them," and so on. But the world moves on.

As I posted in another thread, we have now come full circle since the use of the mouse on the desktop (at least in Metro) is being deprecated in favor of the keyboard, which itself was deprecated by the mouse with the advent of GUIs over 20 years ago.

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HawkMan

The Keyboard was NEV ER deprecated. it was "expanded" on with the mouse.

then again, Metro works just fine with both mouse and keyboard. and I expect the MS touch mouse will be working even better with Metro with gestures specifically for metro actions.

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Guest xiphi

This is absolutely, positively untrue. We designed Start and the rest of the new shell for mouse and keyboard as well as touch. A huge amount of effort has gone into, for example, the keyboarding experience around searching your programs (and settings, files, etc).

I highly doubt that you guys at MS really fully thought this through. Stop trying to push the drivel your company wants to and admit this is a horrible horrible way to go. I will flat out REFUSE to work on any Windows 8 computer and I will not even recommend it to anyone. It's a freaking nightmare to use. I can't even begin to imagine how someone like my parents would react to using it.

In the end, MS is looking like fools trying to push what works in the mobile space onto desktops and laptops. Simply put, it does not work, but you guys don't want to even LISTEN, which makes me wonder why there's a Consumer Preview in the first place. Then again, there's also no Feedback tool like there was in 7, because God knows how much there would be regarding the Start Screen and all of its Metroness.

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hagjohn

Apple has two OSes and developers can very easy develop apps for both. A desktop computer works differently than a tablet or phone. Having the exact same GUI is not how I want a computer to work. Apple has a much different approach. They acknowledge the different needs and try to create a coherent experience between the two OSes by bring familiar features and software to the Mac. They use many similar GUI elements but the Mac apps behave like computer apps, whilst the iOS apps like mobile ones. With Windows 8 you have Metro and that's it. On a PC Metro is a waste of space..

Unless I'm mistaken, Apple does plan on merging IOS and OS X, more and more in the future.

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xWhiplash

Unless I'm mistaken, Apple does plan on merging IOS and OS X, more and more in the future.

Yes, and this is fine. What we want is a gradual change. What we see now is what we want to see in Windows 9, and have something between 7 and what we see now available for Windows 8. You need to change gradually, or your product will not do so well.

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Southern Patriot

The Keyboard was NEV ER deprecated. it was "expanded" on with the mouse.

then again, Metro works just fine with both mouse and keyboard. and I expect the MS touch mouse will be working even better with Metro with gestures specifically for metro actions.

Other than typing a reply or an e-mail, I can spend my entire day using Windows without ever touching the keyboard. By "deprecated", I was referring to using the keyboard to control the computer, as you did with DOS. Remember having to type the name of a program in order to launch it with DOS? That supposedly went away with Windows, but for some odd reason, Microsoft (and many of Win8's supporters here) want us to go back to doing just that, via desktop search.

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Dot Matrix

I highly doubt that you guys at MS really fully thought this through.

It seems to me they did. Look at the all the changes that occurred between the DP and the CP.

Stop trying to push the drivel your company wants to and admit this is a horrible horrible way to go. I will flat out REFUSE to work on any Windows 8 computer and I will not even recommend it to anyone. It's a freaking nightmare to use. I can't even begin to imagine how someone like my parents would react to using it.

So, because YOU hate it, others have to as well? What if your family actually likes it? You're not doing your job as a tech if because YOU decide YOU hate it, others should be deprived as well.

I like it, and I want to expose it to others to see what they think, I'm not doing my job as a gadget guru if I wasn't opening others up to new things. It's what the beta is for, really.

In the end, MS is looking like fools trying to push what works in the mobile space onto desktops and laptops. Simply put, it does not work, but you guys don't want to even LISTEN, which makes me wonder why there's a Consumer Preview in the first place. Then again, there's also no Feedback tool like there was in 7, because God knows how much there would be regarding the Start Screen and all of its Metroness.

Seems to me they have listened. Again, look at all the changes from the DP to the CP. ALL the old functionality is still there. That HASN'T changed. I'm just as productive on my Win8 installation these past few days, as I was running Windows 7.

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Southern Patriot

So, because YOU hate it, others have to as well?

So, because YOU like it, others have to as well?

That seems to be the gist of many of your posts here, as well as those of other Windows 8 supports like Paul Thurrott.

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Kelxin

Lol you guys got it all wrong. I haven't used my mouse for Windows 8 at all.

Windows explorer is Windows key + E (or if on the SuperBar it's Windows Key + top numbers on keyboard)

Anything I want to search for is the same as windows 7 albeit just full screen search now.

I don't know what you guys are complaining about.

The only chance I get to use metro is when my computer boots up, no search queries, just click & go.

After I'm on the Desktop I just do:

  • windows key
  • first few letters of program/settings from control panel to files and anything really
  • enter key

Simple, fast.

Metro pops for a half a second and my program/file/setting is already loading.

Although I'm not used to the full screen search, just the little search box that windows 7 used to be. It's no different from it.

Why not just replace your entire UI with a gigantic search box then? Don't even need tiles, just boot up your computer to a big:

SEARCH:

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Arceles

I hope MS is seeing the polls going on about the removal of the start menu and the imposition of the start screen, because if not... I'm pretty sure that I'm so gonna say "I told you"

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johnporter29

So, because YOU like it, others have to as well?

That seems to be the gist of many of your posts here, as well as those of other Windows 8 supports like Paul Thurrott.

Everyone who dislikes it breaks their legs to get on here and post there reasons why they don't like, why they hate it, we have posts after posts giving silly little reasons why it doesn't work, why it will be another Vista, and at the end of the day, and this has been said before, it's all because it's NEW and everyone needs to chillax and play with it more and then they will realise it's really not as bad as people are making out to be.

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