win8 Windows 8 Start button isn't coming back, but there will be a tutorial

[MorganX]

So, say a company has 1000 workers, and 500 workstations. before upgrading to Windows 8 the company is going to retrain all its workers, yea right. From XP to 7 (which most still use) It will require training let alone the amount of retraining for Windows 8. I can just see it.

Unfortunately, MS doesn't care. They care about companies with 25k +, well into hundreds of thousands of users (licenses). They can force change if they do not buy into Metro or decide to skip EA Renewal cycles if they are satisfied with Win 7 and Office 2010 for the next 3 years.

[MorganX]

Wrong.

Service packs include fixes that are not on windows update also with SP2 for Win7 I am hoping MS will back port some of the new things in Windows 8 to Windows 7 like WDDM 1.2 and xHCI

You are correct Sem, and so is Dot Matrix. MS has bet the farm making changes to something that wasn't broken. They will withold improving Windows 7 too much to force Windows 8 adoption. With no ability to disable metro and ease away from Desktop, it's all or nothing and due to the nature of application environment changes, if adoption is slow, MS will feel a great deal of pain. Someone will pay for it.

It's hard to say how it will go. Metro is so good, and so bad in the wrong place. A lot depends on real Metro Apps, not the tablet-centric applets available now. The Mail app right now is garbage, the people app (Facebook, Twitter) is quite nice. But the big money is from desktop licenses, and Metro is not going to make that market happy. On the other-hand, everyday users (not the type that come here regardless of what side you're on) barely use their computers and Metro will be great. Tablet apps on those desktops will actually allow them to get more use out of their PCs.

[MorganX]

I'm well aware. I'm not arguing against Windows 8, but against the hopes for a Metro-only future. As I see it, Metro and the desktop will have to coexist for a long time yet, meaning there's no escape from the schizophrenic personality on display with Windows 8. Do you disagree?

I agree, and MS can easily fix this. Simply allowing the Start Screen to show the desktop through transparency would eliminate a lot of the annoyance and the in your face and all your screen Start Menu.

I understand why MS needed to throw Metro on top of Windows 8, right now. I'm just surprised with a billion dollars they couldn't do a better, more seamless job of it.

[MorganX]

You're just being silly now. You can continue to run all your applications as you always have on the desktop - the immersive apps aren't compulsory and don't replace the functionality of the desktop. Stop spreading FUD.

This is true.

[HawkMan]

I agree, and MS can easily fix this. Simply allowing the Start Screen to show the desktop through transparency would eliminate a lot of the annoyance and the in your face and all your screen Start Menu.

I understand why MS needed to throw Metro on top of Windows 8, right now. I'm just surprised with a billion dollars they couldn't do a better, more seamless job of it.

Not as easy s it sounds, since metro doesn't run on top of the desktop. The desktop runs on/in metro, at best u can say they run parallels, but in fact it runs in metro.

Either way, I don't see how a transparent background wold make a difference. If you're on desktop, metro is just a really great launcher, it doesn't need to be transparent you're not gonna be staring at it, and if you where to be staring it it and using it that way for she reason, it would be distracting.

[MorganX]

Not as easy s it sounds, since metro doesn't run on top of the desktop. The desktop runs on/in metro, at best u can say they run parallels, but in fact it runs in metro.

Either way, I don't see how a transparent background wold make a difference. If you're on desktop, metro is just a really great launcher, it doesn't need to be transparent you're not gonna be staring at it, and if you where to be staring it it and using it that way for she reason, it would be distracting.

It's distracting taking complete focus away from what you're doing on the desktop or in multiple windows to use the start menu or search. I don't think the desktop being treated a metro app, the Start Page being a shell easily replaced, matters. The Charm Bar runs in Metro ...

Going hybrid, which MS had no choice to do, is in and of itself an annoyance. I believe they could/can make it more seamless but they are in a hurry.

[Salutary7]

I agree, and MS can easily fix this. Simply allowing the Start Screen to show the desktop through transparency would eliminate a lot of the annoyance and the in your face and all your screen Start Menu.

I understand why MS needed to throw Metro on top of Windows 8, right now. I'm just surprised with a billion dollars they couldn't do a better, more seamless job of it.

Yeah, that's close to what I had envisioned for what Metro should be like on Windows--and not only that but have metro and desktop apps coexist. But at the same time, unfortunately, that's not workable with respect to their strategy, which is to have a unified experience across all their products. Additionally there are very large technical differences that make mixing metro and desktop difficult. Overall, though, what I want from the Windows presentation layer on a traditional PC wouldn't work well on a tablet, so I find myself both resentful toward and sympathetic with the new OS.

[MorganX]

Overall, though, what I want from the Windows presentation layer on a traditional PC wouldn't work well on a tablet, so I find myself both resentful toward and sympathetic with the new OS.

Well said.

[BajiRav]

Yes, iOS only allows for one window at a time, while Metro allows for "one and a half", if one is being generous. Same difference. Metro Snap is a nice feature to have on a tablet. But both iOS 's and Metro's window management features are inadequate for a desktop operating system.

I agree, I really wish Microsoft will add a feature to Windows 8 that allows people like you to ignore metro(& metro apps) and just use Windows like you did till Windows 7, genius, right?...oh wait...

[devHead]

Sure, I remember it. The first time it showed up there were howls of protest from people who didn't like the fact that the old familiar taskbar was changing. I lost track of the number of people who claimed that XP would be around for ever if MS went ahead with the changes to Windows 7. Fast forward a few months and everyone loves Windows 7 and the new taskbar.

That's true, but the point that most are making and that I agree with is that at least the Superbar in Windows 7 was designed for....a Desktop/Laptop device. This is the first time Microsoft has decided they're going to take a user interface designed for a smaller screen and touch screen and use it on a desktop or laptop non touch large screen device! My goodness, someone who wants to start multiple programs at once (say, Word, Excel, Calculator) is going back and forth to this big 'Start screen' to get to them and click them. No more pinned apps on the Start menu, no more Jumplists (I know, everyone says that no one used them, but I do extensively), no more frequently used apps on the start menu. All that functionality is gone, so that the start menu can look like a giant tablet screen? So basically, you have to pin all those apps to your taskbar now. Or plop them on your desktop (where there's no Jumplist capability). This is just a Microsinoftskyt bad idea that the Tablet form factor has become so popular, so let's force non-touch desktop/laptop users to adjust to it. It's not good design.

[Rickkins]

Windows 8 Start button isn't coming back

Perhaps not, but you can bet your sweet bippy that there will be a Windows9 Start button, after windows8 flops like nothing ever flopped before.

[MorganX]

That's true, but the point that most are making and that I agree with is that at least the Superbar in Windows 7 was designed for....a Desktop/Laptop device. This is the first time Microsoft has decided they're going to take a user interface designed for a smaller screen and touch screen and use it on a desktop or laptop non touch large screen device! My goodness, someone who wants to start multiple programs at once (say, Word, Excel, Calculator) is going back and forth to this big 'Start screen' to get to them and click them. No more pinned apps on the Start menu, no more Jumplists (I know, everyone says that no one used them, but I do extensively), no more frequently used apps on the start menu. All that functionality is gone, so that the start menu can look like a giant tablet screen? So basically, you have to pin all those apps to your taskbar now. Or plop them on your desktop (where there's no Jumplist capability). This is just a Microsinoftskyt bad idea that the Tablet form factor has become so popular, so let's force non-touch desktop/laptop users to adjust to it. It's not good design.

One of the reasons the Explorer UI failed so miserably on Tablets and Phones is becuase it was so finely tuned for Desktop/Multitaksing/Keyboard/Mouse. It will be interesting to see if they are more successful trying the strategy in reverse.

So many being unhappy with taking away a highly tuned Start Menu for the Tiled/flat Start menu(Page) is a testiment to the many years listening to customer feedback and fine tuning the Windows UI to the point that it is it's own worst competition, lol. Windows 8 isn't that bad, it's just that the existing UI, which was not broken, not nearly maxed out, and doing just fine was "fixed" for MS' war with the iPad.

Three things in Metro's favor 1) Most everyday users will be more productive with it. Let's face it, most regular people who are not enthusiasts or IT workers can barely use real apps other than web stuff like Google Mail. Attaching a document is an achievement after actually being able to browse and find it.

2) Underneath the shell/UI is a lot of optimize Windows OS Kernel and Code (Windows 7 SP2&3 basically).

3) There is no meaningful desktop competition regardless of how badly MS butchers Windows from here on out, lol. Truth.

What can make us all happy, other than the option to restore Start Button or Boot directly to desktop? Real Metro Apps that actually rock and do not feel crippled on a non-touch device.

Also, if MS can get the Web World to change web development on a wholesale scale to landscape that would do wonders for Metro as well.

If only Microsoft had made it optional we wouldn't be having this civil war. Unfortunately, MS does not have enough confidence in it on the Desktop to do that.

[MorganX]

Microsoft really needs more lifestyle, health & fitness apps for Metro that sync with Windows Phone and Tablets. Unfortunately, Apple has all these developers and the peripherals due to incomplete bluetooth implementation on Windows Phone and poor USB design control.

If they fix that situation, I might be all over Metro on the Desktop and endure the schizophrenic reality of the new Desktop.

[Dot Matrix]

Perhaps not, but you can bet your sweet bippy that there will be a Windows9 Start button, after windows8 flops like nothing ever flopped before.

Oh, hey look! A start button!

Hey, look! Another Start Button! :o

Golly, gee, imagine that! Windows 8 has two of them!

[Fraud OS 11]

And another Start button:

[Pikey]

... and what an ugly mess .. that is!

[MorganX]

And another!

[Fraud OS 11]

... and what an ugly mess .. that is!

Of course the trolls would find it an ugly mess because it's posted by me. :p :p That's why it's customizable so you can create your own ugly mess.

[HawkMan]

No it's uglys because it's ugly. And stop calling people fanboys, it's against the forum rules, considered trolling and plain offensive.

[HawkMan]

Also I'm sure people who want a start menu app can find it without you posting it in every windows 8 thread

[.Neo]

Windows 8 Start button isn't coming back

A fair portion of Microsoft's customers probably won't either.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

And another Start button:

And another!

we're not talking about 3rd party apps, we're talking about what will be there out-of-the-box

[Dot Matrix]

A fair portion of Microsoft's customers probably won't either.

You guys really need to get over this crap. Seriously, this nonsense is getting old. Things change. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but they change. The 9x launcher is gone. Fine, whatever. In it's place we have a better Start Screen. the quicker we can all accept that and move on, the better. Those who have worked with computers a while should know this. You guys are ****ing and moaning over 17 year old computing paradigm, that has been a little outdated for some time now. The mouse doesn't reign supreme anymore.

I can see why people moan about the WinRT apps, but the start screen is more highly functional and more customizable than the Start Menu could ever be. And to those who say they "live" in the Start Menu, I wish would get real. Honestly, how many times a day do you click into it? I click into it at least maybe 5 times TOTAL, per day. Some "distraction".

[ATLien_0]

You guys really need to get over this crap. Seriously, this nonsense is getting old. Things change. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but they change. The 9x launcher is gone. Fine, whatever. In it's place we have a better Start Screen. the quicker we can all accept that and move on, the better. Those who have worked with computers a while should know this. You guys are ****ing and moaning over 17 year old computing paradigm, that has been a little outdated for some time now. The mouse doesn't reign supreme anymore.

I can see why people moan about the WinRT apps, but the start screen high more functional and more customizable than the Start Menu could ever be. And to those who say they "live" in the Start Menu, I wish would get real. Honestly, how many times a day do you click into it? I click into it at least maybe 5 times TOTAL, per day. Some "distraction".

here here, people will resist change. my stance is, if you are not a fan stick with Windows 7. Windows 7 is going to be a solid OS like XP was for some time now. Yes I know there are other added features like Ribbon but isn't that also a drastic change. If IT folks are worried about how there user base will react to the change, and then install some 3rd party start menu, isn't that going to be also too much added work? At some point people are going to have to accept the fact that Microsoft is moving on and changing the way we use desktop computing. These 3rd party apps are just delaying the inevitable

Maybe Im one of the few that are kind of tired of the change whiners with every new release of Windows. This has been the case for quite some time and Microsoft seems to be willing to continue this pattern. Windows 9 is going to have changes as well, be prepared...I guess this is why some like OS X more, because there are less drastic changes.

[fintechfooty]

Sweet. Now we can see people stop those stupid videos of people 'trying to figure out win8' with no PRIOR EXPLANATION! ...wtf!!