win8 Windows 8 Start button isn't coming back, but there will be a tutorial

[+Warwagon MVC]

That doesn't answer my question. How would YOU take a desktop OS used my billions and evolve it to meet tomorrow's technologies? Keeping around a 1990's paradigm isn't going to do that. Just look at how archaic Mac OSX is in most spots.

I would keep certain aspects of the UI separate from different devices. I realize that desktops and touch devices have very different UI requirements. I wouldn't penalize desktop users, I would leave what has worked on the desktop and has been refined and perfected over the last 30 years, and focus my energy on making a great touch experience on touch devices. On the desktop I would leave well enough alone.

Something Apple realized 5 years ago. How is Mac OSX Archaic? OSX Must still be doing something right if some users are considering switching over to a Mac instead of buying and using windows 8.

[Dot Matrix]

I would keep certain aspects of the UI separate from different devices. I realize that desktops and touch devices have very different UI requirements. I wouldn't penalize desktop users, I would leave what has worked on the desktop and has been refined and perfected over the last 30 years, and focus my energy on making a great touch experience on touch devices. On the desktop I would leave well enough alone.

Something Apple realized 5 years ago. How is Mac OSX Archaic? OSX Must still be doing something right if some users are considering switching over to a Mac instead of buying and using windows 8.

Metro isn't penalizing desktop users. That's just the point. As a computer user, you're going to have to adapt to new ways of doing things sooner or later, and Microsoft is making that happen sooner. But if you can think about the potential of what the Metro Design Language can bring to ALL computer users, then it's a wonder why so many are clinging on to the dead, static Windows 9x paradigm.

[Stoffel]

Why are people still clinging on to the start button?

There is really no need for that button at all.

You have the one on the keyboard, the one on the charm bar and you can use the corner, how many more options do you want???

[DDStriker]

I swear after reading about 20 pages of this crap you could just about replace the word metro with jesus and we would have ourselves an old fashion religious debate

Dot Matrix why don't you get it? metro isn't that great why is it difficult to handle the concept of choice and user preferences when the gains seem so small

I remember everyone being obsessed with jump lists and the superbar now the jump list is going people don't seem to care anymore? perhaps it was just a fad like this metro will be? i still prefer win7 quick launch over the super bar but that's beside the point i look forward to a day where windows arrives where all the changes and enhancements are kept under the hood and you can control/customize most/all aspects and feature sets upgrading the core should not change the way you operate but of course still receive new implementations that you can either adapt to or stay with the old

probably not ideal from microsofts point of view due to costs but hopefully it would stop all this nonsensical arguing over who should be using what features because it's somehow their business

[Dot Matrix]

Why are people still clinging on to the start button?

There is really no need for that button at all.

You have the one on the keyboard, the one on the charm bar and you can use the corner, how many more options do you want???

Introducing Windows 8 Start Button Edition! :D For when 3 buttons just doesn't cut it! Now your whole desktop is filled with them!

[Dot Matrix]

I swear after reading about 20 pages of this crap you could just about replace the word metro with jesus and we would have ourselves an old fashion religious debate

Dot Matrix why don't you get it? metro isn't that great why is it difficult to handle the concept of choice and user preferences when the gains seem so small

I remember everyone being obsessed with jump lists and the superbar now the jump list is going people don't seem to care anymore?

Oh, I get it alright. People are resistant to change, but sooner or later that change comes, and those that want "choice" bitch and moan there too. If not now, we'd be having the same conversation two years from now after the launch of the Windows 9 beta, where I'm willing to bet more of Windows will be going Metro.

Also, jump lists are still in Windows 8.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Oh well, at least Windows key + R works. I use that more times than I can count per day.

[Athernar]

I'm going to hack all your arms off with a chainsaw.

You're not allowed to complain as that's just WHINING and you should ADAPT!!!!!!

Steven Sinofsky told me that having no limbs is better than having limbs because he said it therefore it is the ultimate truth.

:rolleyes:

[Stoffel]

I'm going to hack all your arms off with a chainsaw.

You're not allowed to complain as that's just WHINING and you should ADAPT!!!!!!

Steven Sinofsky told me that having no limbs is better than having limbs because he said it therefore it is the ultimate truth.

:rolleyes:

OOOOPS, never thought about it that way, sorry

Now I also want the start button back

SINOFSKY I WANT MY START BUTTON BACK

[MorganX]

After a few hours with Windows 8 on my powerhouse SFF home PC, I had to go back to Win 7. How fantastic and quick is Windows 7's System Image and Restore: flawless. SSDs all around helps :)

While they surprisingly had TI's USB 3.0 drivers, it's just flaky. Drives dropping out contstantly. With SFF I need my external high speed storage. Sure that will get worked out by RTM.

Anyway, it does feel somewhat like a kludge but not nearly as bad once you start using it if you have a powerful system which most are and anyone multitasking and doing real work has. Without real apps, metro is more of an annoyance/nuisance. There is plenty of potential but really its about the apps. I just don't think for desktop computing, it will ever be as efficient as the Explore UI and Taskbar/Start Menu.

But, that's basically workstation computing. For the masses, it will actually be great. Power users can work around it and stay in desktop mode. Metro control screens aren't that bad. It's just the Start Page that is a waste of time but it scales pretty well. Better than I thought on a 24".

Live tiles are overrated. I mean, who's gonna stare at the Start Page waiting for an update? It will be great on Tablets. If meaningful apps cross all three platforms, it will be worth the annoyance of Metro on the desktop.

In short, not as bad as those, such as myself, annoyed with the less than stellar hybrid implementation and all the extra clicking, dragging, sliding, and the horrid lego start button in the lower left corner, thought; And nowhere near nirvana or as revolutionary as the Metro fanatics would have you believe. That's really it. Without meaningful Metro apps, I do think MS will be in deep trouble on the desktop and in the Enterprise. Windows 7 will rule there for quite a while I believe.

The Metro UI and App Environment is about the tablet and phone. It's being brought to the desktop for better or worse, to complete the ecosystem and help it gain a foothold in Tablet and Phone and to make millions of home computer owners who don't do much of anything on their PC, much much more productive.

If Sally Sue can easily do Cookbook, Pinterest, Facebook, and actually email and message with ease (something I think is a chore for most now) that is a good thing. Let's face it, the average Soccer Mom and Garage dad spent hours downloading iTunes and basically live in iTunes and on facebook.com cuz everything else is not discoverable. Many of them even use all that shovelware on their desktops when they buy a Dell or Best Buy PC because it's there and they don't know there's anything else out there. The MS store and Metro will be good, and should cut down on malware as people stop downloading BS and get applets from the store.

/end edirantorial

[Miuku.]

People are resistant to change

There's a difference between change for the sake of change and change for the sake of improving something.

Whilst I don't really care about Windows in the slightest, I still don't understand the adamant stone walling that they're doing and removing the ability to choose between the old interface and the new one, certainly it's not that hard to create - even Linux people have managed it for many, many years.

Forcing it on people will just make them resentful.

[+Warwagon MVC]

There's a difference between change for the sake of change and change for the sake of improving something.

That's a really good quote.

Metro is change for the sake of change. There are reasons why Windows 7 is called the greatest version of windows ever.

[MorganX]

That's a really good quote.

Metro is change for the sake of change. There are reasons why Windows 7 is called the greatest version of windows ever.

>>Metro is change for the sake of change.<<

Depends on which audience (target market) you ask.

>>There are reasons why Windows 7 is called the greatest version of windows ever.<<

Agreed

[Dot Matrix]

There are reasons why Windows 7 is called the greatest version of windows ever.

The same was said about Windows 95. And XP. And anybody, who's anybody shouldn't be using either of those anymore.

And Metro is hardly "change for the sake of it". You need to see the benefits of it, and understand the technological advancements in PC computing to understand why it's there. Having a forward outlook to always helps. Look at the technology Microsoft Research is working with right now, that'll advance desktop and tablet computing even further. No Start menus there.

No one's forcing you to upgrade just yet, you can hold onto your mouse for now, but excuse me while I look ahead to future technologies. :)

[+Warwagon MVC]

The same was said about Windows 95. And XP. And anybody, who's anybody shouldn't be using either of those anymore.

I disagree. At least in the case of Windows XP. I have a server running in my house who's sole purpose is running 3 applications 24 /7. Are you saying I should upgrade that to windows 7 even though it's doing the job I need it to do and XP is still being supported with updates.

[George P Global Moderator]

Oh man, this thread has reached epic levels of comedy. Where were all of you when MS dropped win95 and explorer on the world and a group, small, like the one we have here IMO, wanted program manager back? Hell, some even went in and changed it back to program manager.

Hell, program manager worked as well, so I guess explorer was change for the sake of change right? So let me get this right, if we change something that works to something else then we're just doing it for the sake of having something to do right?

[MorganX]

The same was said about Windows 95. And XP. And anybody, who's anybody shouldn't be using either of those anymore.

And Metro is hardly "change for the sake of it". You need to see the benefits of it, and understand the technological advancements in PC computing to understand why it's there. Having a forward outlook to always helps. Look at the technology Microsoft Research is working with right now, that'll advance desktop and tablet computing even further. No Start menus there.

No one's forcing you to upgrade just yet, you can hold onto your mouse for now, but excuse me while I look ahead to future technologies. :)

Keep all that research in perspective. Most never sees practical implementation. I was very Excited about Windows Tablets when these concepts were shown years ago. MS was never able to deliver, still can't deliver that kind of visual coolness and just got erased by iOS which is rather boring.

[MorganX]

If Microsoft had actualy delievered on this promise, we would not even know what an iPad is today:

I still want that ^

[George P Global Moderator]

Why wouldn't we be talking about the iPad? That's talking about using a pen/stylus, unless you're writing or drawing something people in general would rather use a finger as a touch input object rather than a stylus/pen. In the end the iPad still would've won over users IMO.

Besides, OEMs could've, for years, skinned Windows on their tablets, yet how well did that work? And skinning is a half-assed approach to the problem because it's only the top layer. Once you dig a bit lower you run into the same old problems yet again.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Besides, OEMs could've, for years, skinned Windows on their tablets, yet how well did that work? And skinning is a half-assed approach to the problem because it's only the top layer. Once you dig a bit lower you run into the same old problems yet again.

Yep and Windows 8 on the desktop is a prime example.

[MorganX]

Why wouldn't we be talking about the iPad? That's talking about using a pen/stylus, unless you're writing or drawing something people in general would rather use a finger as a touch input object rather than a stylus/pen. In the end the iPad still would've won over users IMO.

Besides, OEMs could've, for years, skinned Windows on their tablets, yet how well did that work? And skinning is a half-assed approach to the problem because it's only the top layer. Once you dig a bit lower you run into the same old problems yet again.

Can't see the forest for the trees. It's doesn't matter that the specific slide from almost 10 years ago specifically talked about Pens. Pen Tablets are also touch tablets and if MS had delievered those type of apps and UI, iPad absolutely would not be dominating IMO. The simple fact is all these promises and concepts are not new, and have not always been delievered on.

MS was way ahead in the tablet game and just dropped the ball, completely.

So take it all with a grain of salt and reality. Or, dream on.

[MorganX]

dupe

[Dot Matrix]

Yep and Windows 8 on the desktop is a prime example.

Yet, you're the one running Windows 8 on a tablet with Classic Shell....

[George P Global Moderator]

Yep and Windows 8 on the desktop is a prime example.

*facepalm*

Are you really going to mix up things to try and prove a weak point here? Windows 8 on the desktop works because it still supports the keyboard and the mouse fully. We're talking tablets and touch and to that extent all the core OS features/options on Win8 can be accessed and used from the start screen with your figures on a tablet without issue either. That's the difference between a simple top layer skin UI and having the OS shell itself re-done. Also performance is key, unless you think loading a "skin" or top-layer UI over explorer as another process would be faster?

[+Warwagon MVC]

Yet, you're the one running Windows 8 on a tablet with Classic Shell....

Doesn't change the fact we are still touching icons and folders and drop down menus.