win8 Windows 8 Start button isn't coming back, but there will be a tutorial

[derkim]

fair enough. But I just don't see the start menu coming back in Windows 9. The Start Screen unifies Microsoft's products and completes their "Three screens and a cloud" strategy.

I never saw a better chance for alternate systems like now. Windows for ARM has actually no really arguments why people should use it. No compatibility to existing software, no desktop software, high restrictions. Actually it is nothing more than an Apps only system. But not just ARM. Also for other tablets I see a great chance for alternate systems. Because actually nobody take a tablet to use "standard software". So if people have to look for new software they also could look for a new system. Maybe one which costs nothing... So what I want to say is: Microsoft is not in position, an never was in a more worse position, to start experiments and don't give the users the chance to choice. Maybe I'm exaggerating... But I wouldn't be surprise if Windows 8 will be the dead for Microsofts high position in the world.

[Dot Matrix]

Windows for ARM has actually no really arguments why people should use it. No compatibility to existing software, no desktop software, high restrictions. Actually it is nothing more than an Apps only system. But not just ARM.

Same position the iPhone was in back in 2007. it had nothing going for, but flash forward to today, and look.

I hate to tell you, but it's this same reason Windows 8 won't fail. Microsoft just gave developers a lucrative user base to go after. Build a nice enough app, and people will use it; desktop or tablet.

[abysal]

Again we've explained repeatedly why they can't waste resources supporting two paradigms, it's just you haters, refuse to listen to those arguments and keep repeating the same "choice" rut. The choice is to stay with windows 7 until it's out of support and by Windows 10 you will be on Metro whether you like it or not. which is also more versions than you had support for the ancient bad multi column XP start menu.

Also the reason why they supported multiple menus back then was because it used the same back end. now they would be supporting two entirely different code bases. not a workable scenario in the modern world.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. By Windows 9 MS may realize what a horrible mistake they've made. I'm still betting the majority of users that have a choice will skip Win 8.

The waste of resources you refer to is miniscule at best, when you consider supporting the existing win 7 start menu model in win 8. The fact is most of us are not haters, we simple want to use the computer however we want to. That my friend is called choice, something that Microsoft has almost always given it's users. It's what defines the PC platform, and now that choice is being taken away by a fundamental UI change.

To put it in another context; I don't want Microsoft to remove Metro, because I want to use it on some of my devices, on others I'd rather not see it.

[Dot Matrix]

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. By Windows 9 MS may realize what a horrible mistake they've made. I'm still betting the majority of users that have a choice will skip Win 8.

Do you guys think before you write? The 9x paradigm is gone, and it's NOT coming back. There is no going back for Microsoft. That would be a colossal mistake which would cost them more than sticking to their guns, and improving upon Windows 8 for Windows 9.

[George P Global Moderator]

MS won't bring back the start menu in Windows 9 and the reason why will be a simple one, they'll change the desktop more in 9 than they have in 8, so much so that having that little button and that menu wouldn't make sense at all anymore.

If people think the desktop isn't in for bigger changes after this then sorry but I think you're wrong. The start menu being replaced by the start screen was just the logical first step in a process that will redo the whole OS over time. Hey I get it, some people don't like it, some do, w/e. You wanted choice right? Well look, there's at least 3 different alternative start menus that you can install and use in Win8, pick one and run with it if that's what you want. Seems like choice to me right there. If MS isn't going to offer the feature/app 3rd parties will, that's what Windows has always been like and it hasn't changed in Windows 8.

[HawkMan]

Same position the iPhone was in back in 2007. it had nothing going for, but flash forward to today, and look.

With the exception that with win8 you get the same apps in your phone, laptop, pad and Xbox.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Same position the iPhone was in back in 2007. it had nothing going for, but flash forward to today, and look. [...] it's this same reason Windows 8 won't fail.

With the exception that with win8 you get the same apps in your phone, laptop, pad and Xbox.

yeah, but other than that, it's totally the same...

:shifty:

[Dot Matrix]

Just put it this way. The Windows 9x Start Menu isn't going to come back for the same reason Microsoft never went back to Windows XP to develop Windows 7.

[derkim]

Same position the iPhone was in back in 2007. it had nothing going for, but flash forward to today, and look.

I hate to tell you, but it's this same reason Windows 8 won't fail. Microsoft just gave developers a lucrative user base to go after. Build a nice enough app, and people will use it; desktop or tablet.

Finally the consumer will decide what happens. And I see a big interest that people think about a change if Windows in future not do what Windows did in the past. And I think Windows 8 is going to be a disaster for Microsoft. I not even speak about a not good system. I speak about ignorance. What Microsoft is doing is just ignorant.

[MorganX]

Again we've explained repeatedly why they can't waste resources supporting two paradigms, it's just you haters, refuse to listen to those arguments and keep repeating the same "choice" rut. The choice is to stay with windows 7 until it's out of support and by Windows 10 you will be on Metro whether you like it or not. which is also more versions than you had support for the ancient bad multi column XP start menu.

Also the reason why they supported multiple menus back then was because it used the same back end. now they would be supporting two entirely different code bases. not a workable scenario in the modern world.

Maybe they think your explanation is ridiculous and invalid. Your belief in it doesn't necessarily make it so. There's a million and one, anectodatal possibilities. Perhaps if they dropped the totally uncecessary file operation chart/graph they would save enough memory and cpu cycles to keep the old Start menu, lol.

[MorganX]

I hate how the metro lovers here can't accept that people either don't like Metro or simply dislike the the fact its been forced on us. They are just as bad as Microsoft in my opinion.

The two column start menu started in XP. Classic (9x style) was made a option and remained an option in Vista before being removed in Windows 7. Two Windows versions gave the choice, but here: no choice.

It shows, in my opinion, how little faith MS has in Metro on Windows when they won't give you an option, like they did with XP/Vista.

Interesting; given that Microsoft does have a desktop monopoly. However, it matters not. They survived the DOJ oversight controlling their predatory monopolistic behavior and are free to leverage their monopoly as they please now. Still an interesting perspective, larger than the scope of this thread.

[Dot Matrix]

Finally the consumer will decide what happens. And I see a big interest that people think about a change if Windows in future not do what Windows did in the past. And I think Windows 8 is going to be a disaster for Microsoft. I not even speak about a not good system. I speak about ignorance. What Microsoft is doing is just ignorant.

No more "ignorant" than any other tech company out there. Again, once the user adjusts, all your complaints are going to look even more silly than they do now. You're a power user, Microsoft isn't designing an OS for you, they're designing it to be used by a wide range of people. The only ignorance I see here is from those who aren't interested in watching where it goes, and are desperately trying to hang onto the past. You can't have a future in computing if you're no able to let go of it.

Unification is a major goal of both Apple and Google, and as the years roll on you're going to see them both implement that goal. Microsoft had the opportunity to beat them to the punch line first, which is going to open up the PC market to unique opportunities for users. Just watch.

[+Warwagon MVC]

Even Warwagon himself said he'd switch it off without bothering to show it to others and let them come to their own conclusions.

The hell? I never said that. I said I would use the classic start, but I didn't say I would give other people the classic start. For the record I showed my mom, Dad, My friend Ben, Brent, Kory and Sarah Metro on Windows 8 on my laptop while it was still installed. None of them liked it, Although my dad said after you get use to it, it might not be so bad. No I was not bashing Windows 8 the entire time they were using it.

[D.J.P]

Guess HawkMan gets added to my ignore list too. Both you and Dot Matrix keep spewing the same crap over.

Just accept the fact that people dislike Metro or dislike not having a choice. Its not that hard.

[Dot Matrix]

The hell? I never said that. I said I would use the classic start, but I didn't say I would give other people the classic start. For the record I showed my mom, Dad, My friend Ben, Brent, Kory and Sarah Metro on Windows 8 on my laptop while it was still installed. None of them liked it, Although my dad said after you get use to it, it might not be so bad. No I was not bashing Windows 8 the entire time they were using it.

Taking too long to look, but I coulda swore you said you would disable Metro for users who brought their computers to you IF there was the option to do so.

Guess HawkMan gets added to my ignore list too. Both you and Dot Matrix keep spewing the same crap over.

Just accept the fact that people dislike Metro or dislike not having a choice. Its not that hard.

Then don't use it. When Windows 9 comes out with more changes, don't come crying either.

[JaredFrost]

Then don't use it. When Windows 9 comes out with more changes, don't come crying either.

Sorry, but you say no one is forcing people to buy it so don't complain, then you say if you don't like Metro wait till Windows 9 comes out, then don't complain about that either

While you're right no one is forcing us to buy it, they are forcing us to use it, when exactly should we voice our objection? at the end of the Metro lifecycle? D.J.P is right to

ignore you people, you're basically saying your opinion is the only right one, not even trying to see other peoples point of view, you're basically the anti-consumer-consumer.

[HawkMan]

Maybe they think your explanation is ridiculous and invalid. Your belief in it doesn't necessarily make it so. There's a million and one, anectodatal possibilities. Perhaps if they dropped the totally uncecessary file operation chart/graph they would save enough memory and cpu cycles to keep the old Start menu, lol.

Not talking about computer resources. Developement resources.

[HawkMan]

Guess HawkMan gets added to my ignore list too. Both you and Dot Matrix keep spewing the same crap over.

Just accept the fact that people dislike Metro or dislike not having a choice. Its not that hard.

Good idea, ignore anyone who's arguments you can refute :rolleyes: too bad the end result is that you're the one ending up looking silly.

I would respect you if you tried refuting my argument or even said you didn't agree. Putting on the blinds and going "you're silly so you're not here" however does not earn respect.

[JaredFrost]

Not talking about computer resources. Developement resources.

Which is equally asinine.

[HawkMan]

Sorry, but you say no one is forcing people to buy it so don't complain, then you say if you don't like Metro wait till Windows 9 comes out, then don't complain about that either

While you're right no one is forcing us to buy it, they are forcing us to use it, when exactly should we voice our objection? at the end of the Metro lifecycle? D.J.P is right to

ignore you people, you're basically saying your opinion is the only right one, not even trying to see other peoples point of view, you're basically the anti-consumer-consumer.

No I'm not saying you don't have a right to not like metro, however it's not going to change the fact that metro is here to stay, and the start menu isn't coming back. Neither does it change the fact that for 99% of users, based on actual usage statistics of millions of users, metro is better for them. MS is not going to waste resources and cause severe delays in future security patches for what amounts to the choice of less than 1% of users. Especially when those users if they gave it a chance would find they are just as productive in the new system if not more, leaving aesthetics as the ony valid argument. And they're definitely not wasting all those resources and delaying important security patches because some users think their menus ugly.

Accept that fact. You are a minority, it's not MS job to waste resources on a minority, if you must be stuck in the past, use a third party program, THAT'S what choice is about, they're not blocking your ability to run a third party launcher, so smile and be happy.

[HawkMan]

Which is equally asinine.

Do you have an intelligent argument to go with that troll insult ?

[JaredFrost]

No I'm not saying you don't have a right to not like metro, however it's not going to change the fact that metro is here to stay, and the start menu isn't coming back. Neither does it change the fact that for 99% of users, based on actual usage statistics of millions of users, metro is better for them. MS is not going to waste resources and cause severe delays in future security patches for what amounts to the choice of less than 1% of users. Especially when those users if they gave it a chance would find they are just as productive in the new system if not more, leaving aesthetics as the ony valid argument. And they're definitely not wasting all those resources and delaying important security patches because some users think their menus ugly.

Accept that fact. You are a minority, it's not MS job to waste resources on a minority, if you must be stuck in the past, use a third party program, THAT'S what choice is about, they're not blocking your ability to run a third party launcher, so smile and be happy.

What statistics? there are NO comparison statistics for a desktop and Metro, there is NO transitional OS where both are available, Windows 8 isn't even out yet, if you want to use those available statistics the Start Menu

Just crushed Metro in pure numbers, all they have are those numbers and focus groups, that doesn't really tell them anything.

Microsoft is taking a HUGE chances here that it'll work out, that or they don't care, since businesses upgraded/or will to Windows 7 and wont upgrade to 8 anyway, they may see Windows 8 as

a necessary loss to shoehorn their way into the mobile market, the mobile market is their big picture right now, not a desktop OS where they already dominate the market, people that don't like

Windows 8 will simply use Windows 7, 99% of them will not change to OS X or some Linux distro, it's win win for Microsoft either way.

Do you have an intelligent argument to go with that troll insult ?

Short memory eh, I've gone over this with you before. The development resources required would not be higher than the income from the additional sales, even if it was it wouldn't

have any noticable impact from the overall sales, we aren't talking about some small development company here, we're talking about Microsoft, who dominates the desktop OS market

and the time required for this would not cause any considerable delays in patch releases.

[Dot Matrix]

What bothers me is that it hasn't even been two months since the CP was released, and there was immediate hate, which tells me many didn't even bother with downloading and trying out the OS to see what Metro offers. Desktops can be more than point and click. Trying to use beta software like you did previous versions negate the point of running the beta.

It's a beta OS which means you have to remove it eventually, so why not leave your old habits behind, and run the OS on the side and give it an honest try. But you can't cling onto old computing habits for long. Clinging onto those is going to leave you high and dry before long, no matter what OS you use.

[Arceles]

What bothers me is that it hasn't even been two months since the CP was released, and there was immediate hate, which tells me many didn't even bother with downloading and trying out the OS to see what Metro offers. Desktops can be more than point and click. Trying to use beta software like you did previous versions negate the point of running the beta.

It's a beta OS which means you have to remove it eventually, so why not leave your old habits behind, and run the OS on the side and give it an honest try. But you can't cling onto old computing habits for long. Clinging onto those is going to leave you high and dry before long, no matter what OS you use.

I did, thanks, even some screenshots of it, Windows 8, no thanks.

[Dot Matrix]

I did, thanks, even some screenshots of it, Windows 8, no thanks.

Trying it out for a day or so doesn't count either. Still use it?