ILikeTobacco Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 You're right. I can't argue this without first admitting I don't have the right say when it's "just fine". That's why I defer the right of getting an abortion to those that want it. It's none of my ****ing business, and neither is it yours. I'm absolutely pro-choice. I'm not necessarily pro-abortion. It is when federal funding is being used to do something that I don't agree with. People, especially impressionable teenagers, should not be pressured into getting an abortion at the hospital, period.That hospital was built on tax payer dollars and shouldn't be using my taxes to push the agenda like that. Yeah, it's such a prevalent problem that it must be addressed! *rollseyes* Come talk to me when Christians in this country get beaten, tied up to a fence post, and left to freeze to death and have it tried to justified because of the atheist's lack of belief. No, Christians just have to worried about Athiests and other belief systems coming into their buildings and shooting up the place. Stop acting like only gays are prosecuted when you know its not true. You also know that gays are not just attacked by Christians so stop acting like that is the truth. Yes, they ****ing are, but there's a hell of a lot empathy for those that commit these crimes because of their religious beliefs. IIRC, some legislator in some state wanted to provide immunity from classification as a federal hate crime if the violent act against a homosexual was due to the perp's religious beliefs. You mean like how you are giving this guy empathy because of his beliefs, or lack thereof? It is no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfirth Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Yes, they ****ing are, but there's a hell of a lot empathy for those that commit these crimes because of their religious beliefs. IIRC, some legislator in some state wanted to provide immunity from classification as a federal hate crime if the violent act against a homosexual was due to the perp's religious beliefs. Michigan's 'License To Bully' Bill: The Danger Of 'Moral' Exemptions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILikeTobacco Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Citation, please. Where's this nonsense about males and females "completing each other"? Take individuals that stay abstinent. Do they "complete" anybody? Are they committing a sin? Surely you know the story of Adam and Eve and how Eve was created because Adam wasn't happy alone. Bible as says that if you can live without a husband/wife, you should. If being alone leads you to sin, you should get married. If you take all of those "direct" sins as you listed, do you see that 3 of those (lying, stealing, and cheating) are considered morally wrong (even by atheists) because they impact others? A society that condones and fosters all three of those things doesn't last long. OTOH, who gives a rat's ass about homosexuality? How does having two fudgepackers living next door to you, romping way in the privacy of their own home affect you? Why is it a "sin" other than the fact it's arbitrarily so? No they are not. Take a basic ethics class at a college level and you will see why society does not consider those things inherently morally wrong. Example: Lying in order to hurt someone, not moral. Lying in order to save the life of a child, moral. Also, why do you care what the Bible says is a sin when you don't agree with the teachings of the Bible in the first place. According to you, homosexuality isn't even an issue. If there is no issue, there is no argument. Bad example No secular law is ever that arbitrary. The only laws that are ever THAT ludicrous and arbitrary are Biblical laws. It is the perfect example because laws similar to that have and do exist, while probably not enforced.http://www.buzzfeed....uld-be-resisted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj55555 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 It is when federal funding is being used to do something that I don't agree with. People, especially impressionable teenagers, should not be pressured into getting an abortion at the hospital, period.That hospital was built on tax payer dollars and shouldn't be using my taxes to push the agenda like that. Churches shouldn't get non-profit status, pay no taxes, and get federal funding through faith based initiative since they use it for something I don't agree with. Kids, especially impressionable pre-adolecents, should not be pressured into believing in an imaginary deity, period. That church they're worshipping at was subsidized by my tax dollars and they shouldn't be using tax-exempt status to push an agenda like that. See how that works? No, Christians just have to worried about Athiests and other belief systems coming into their buildings and shooting up the place. Right. Like it happens all the time. Stop acting like only gays are prosecuted when you know its not true. You also know that gays are not just attacked by Christians so stop acting like that is the truth. "Prosecuted"? Do you mean "persecuted"? No, gays aren't the only ones persecuted, but they're only ones that are systematically persecuted because of a belief system rather than personal prejudice. You mean like how you are giving this guy empathy because of his beliefs, or lack thereof? It is no different. No, I show empathy to his plight because of what I said above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Tyranade Subscriber² Posted May 1, 2012 Subscriber² Share Posted May 1, 2012 I personally agree with him, but I have christian friends and I don't go trashing the bible. Sure a lot of the passages are also like that in my point of view but I'm not gunna go round trashing someones religion, everyone has a right to believe in what they believe in. Heck I'm gay and I don't agree with this, it's stupid. THolman 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogurtmaster Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Society has changed for the worst. Values and morals are now a moving target. So, Murder maybe wrong today and right 20 years from now. It's not just religion people are after it's anything that teaches values and morals and since our society is morally bankrupt a lot of things considered "wrong" or "Immoral" will become right in the eyes of the majority. This is your world kids, enjoy because you are making it the way it has become. The funny thing is that you are just feeding directly right into the hands of the future and yes, this part was written about in the Bible. Check out these words when you google..."Falling away", it is a falling away from faith and values. Only thing is that it's going to get a lot worse and this is ONLY the begining. Yeah, this might sound crazy, but just watch it happen. It's so funny that a book that people think that is a "Myth" is coming true each day, it's almost as if all of this has been planned out from the very begining. hmmmmm cycro 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILikeTobacco Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 .... You know what the difference is between you and me. I am saying don't hate people for religious beliefs, personal choices, or anything else. You are saying hate all Christians because a minority that has somehow wronged you even though their views don't even follow the majorities. Tell me, which is better for society. The blind hate you are pushing for? If so, I really pity you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILikeTobacco Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 "Prosecuted"? Do you mean "persecuted"? No, gays aren't the only ones persecuted, but they're only ones that are systematically persecuted because of a belief system rather than personal prejudice. You are right. Muslim's haven't been systematically persecuted for the past decade.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj55555 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Surely you know the story of Adam and Eve and how Eve was created because Adam wasn't happy alone. Bible as says that if you can live without a husband/wife, you should. If being alone leads you to sin, you should get married. That still doesn't show how homosexuality is a sin. You can be homosexual and be alone. Is that still a sin? In the condition "if being alone leads you to sin", what sin are we talking about here? Killing kittens? The only way homosexuality is even related to that "if" condition is if you pre-suppose homosexuality as the sin in question. As for the bit about getting married, it sure sounds like God is recommending marriage to everybody. If gay people were allowed to be married, maybe they wouldn't commit sins like killing kittens. No they are not. Take a basic ethics class at a college level and you will see why society does not consider those things inherently morally wrong. Example: Lying in order to hurt someone, not moral. Lying in order to save the life of a child, moral. And society looks at these acts in context before judging. I didn't say all of those acts were universally morally wrong. There are obviously extenuating circumstances, a fact that religion almost universally ignores. Also, why do you care what the Bible says is a sin when you don't agree with the teachings of the Bible in the first place. According to you, homosexuality isn't even an issue. If there is no issue, there is no argument. It is the perfect example because laws similar to that have and do exist, while probably not enforced. http://www.buzzfeed....uld-be-resisted I don't care about what the Bible says. I care that Christians apply what the Bible says arbitrarily, and try to apply it to those who don't give **** what it says. Keep your Bible out the laws, my schools, and goverment policy, and I couldn't care less what you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILikeTobacco Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Churches shouldn't get non-profit status, pay no taxes, and get federal funding through faith based initiative since they use it for something I don't agree with. Kids, especially impressionable pre-adolecents, should not be pressured into believing in an imaginary deity, period. That church they're worshipping at was subsidized by my tax dollars and they shouldn't be using tax-exempt status to push an agenda like that. See how that works? Yep and here is a thought, how about you go lobby to change the laws instead of bashing peoples beliefs. If you have a legitimate problem with it, have it changed. There are lobbyist groups out there that could use your support. But instead, you are here being an internet tough guy talking about how people should target Christians because all of them hate gays. Sorry, I have chosen to rise above such a childish blind hate and have become educated to the facts, not the BS this guy was saying that was spoken out of pure ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj55555 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 You are right. Muslim's haven't been systematically persecuted for the past decade.... What doctrine followed in the US condones or fosters the persecution of Muslims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 hmm, sounded like he (the guy in the article) was attacking Judaism as well with the thing about shellfish. Some people seem to get touchy when someone points out the glaring contradictions and floors in the bible, but that bloke did sound like he was being rather aggressive, singling them out etc. Shellfish is forbidden to Christians too, but is just one of the many parts of the bible which Christians ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I know this is like stepping into a minefield, but frankly, people should be allowed to hold whatever opinion they want, and say what ever they want, provided that they aren't hurting anyone (and I do not mean feelings) by doing so. I don't think anyone deserves to be bullied, regardless of who they are, but people of any faith can genuinely believe that something is wrong without bullying the people who are 'guilty' of it, at least in the minds of the people who believe that something is wrong. But if there is one thing I've learnt over the years, that's that attacking people's beliefs with verbal attacks and profanity doesn't accomplish much, other than ****ing them off. I'm sure that Mr. Savage would've been upset if one of the people who walked out had jumped up and called his beliefs BS, and I doubt that he would've sat through an anti-gay rally where people were throwing slurs left and right. I'm not siding with anyone here, just trying to be objective - mutual respect goes a long way, and genuine debate and friendship is way better than anger and emotional attacks. It's kinda difficult to respect a system which declares you as evil and hounds you and your fellows into depression or even suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILikeTobacco Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 What doctrine followed in the US condones or fosters the persecution of Muslims? None that I know of specifically. Which doctrine in the US condones the persecution of gays? None that I know of specifically. Certainly not Christianity, since it very plainly states in the Bible to love everyone regardless of their anything you may not agree with about them. Anyone who says otherwise is twisting the words in the Bible to justify it. Guess what, that is possible to do with anything and it makes it no less right. It is still wrong. If you are a Christian that follows the Bible, you don't persecute gays, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj55555 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Yep and here is a thought, how about you go lobby to change the laws instead of bashing peoples beliefs. If you have a legitimate problem with it, have it changed. There are lobbyist groups out there that could use your support. But instead, you are here being an internet tough guy talking about how people should target Christians because all of them hate gays. Sorry, I have chosen to rise above such a childish blind hate and have become educated to the facts, not the BS this guy was saying that was spoken out of pure ignorance. Uh, when did I say people should "target Christians"? I said belief systems, even religious ones, are fair game when it comes to crticism. Educated to what "facts"? The only facts that I see are that Christians pick and choose what to believe, and considering homosexuality a sin is one that they always seem to choose to believe even though it's the one that least impacts themselves. If you don't want to have buttsecks, don't have buttsecks. Nobody is forcing you to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 TY for the welcome! I do have a thick skin. Just seems that others are quick to judge or try to force their opinion on others. Such is the nature of humanity. It's pretty unlikely anyone means anything personal by it; it's your views which get attacked, not your person. If you have any conviction in them, then you shouldn't have any problem with defending them. If not, well, perhaps you should review your beliefs. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILikeTobacco Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Educated to what "facts"? The only facts that I see are that Christians pick and choose what to believe, and considering homosexuality a sin is one that they always seem to choose to believe even though it's the one that least impacts themselves. If you don't want to have buttsecks, don't have buttsecks. Nobody is forcing you to. And you have made it extremely clear that you are choosing to ignore that the Bible says do not hate anyone. You have been educated to that fact and are choosing to ignore it just so you can keep arguing which means you have no actual basis for your hate. Christians who follow the Bible do not hate gays, period. That is a fact. If you choose to stay ignorant to that, you are no better than the people who claim they are acting on what the Bible says and hating gays. You are blindly hating an entire group of people, justifying it with arbitrary reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj55555 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 None that I know of specifically. Which doctrine in the US condones the persecution of gays? None that I know of specifically. Certainly not Christianity, since it very plainly states in the Bible to love everyone regardless of their anything you may not agree with about them. Anyone who says otherwise is twisting the words in the Bible to justify it. Guess what, that is possible to do with anything and it makes it no less right. It is still wrong. If you are a Christian that follows the Bible, you don't persecute gays, period. You can claim it says whatever it says, but it's not taught that way. "Homosexuality" and "abomination" are words that are frequently used in Christian rhetoric. As I said, some Christian legislators even tried passing laws to give immunity from hate crime laws if the perp of a hate crime did so because of religion or "closely held belief". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudslag Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Society has changed for the worst. Values and morals are now a moving target. So, Murder maybe wrong today and right 20 years from now. It's not just religion people are after it's anything that teaches values and morals and since our society is morally bankrupt a lot of things considered "wrong" or "Immoral" will become right in the eyes of the majority. This is your world kids, enjoy because you are making it the way it has become. The funny thing is that you are just feeding directly right into the hands of the future and yes, this part was written about in the Bible. Check out these words when you google..."Falling away", it is a falling away from faith and values. Only thing is that it's going to get a lot worse and this is ONLY the begining. Yeah, this might sound crazy, but just watch it happen. It's so funny that a book that people think that is a "Myth" is coming true each day, it's almost as if all of this has been planned out from the very begining. hmmmmm LOL what? FTR murder has always been considered wrong by societal terms. So no that comment you made has zero basis in reality and surely lacks common sense. 20 yrs or 200 yrs from now it will still be wrong. What you deem as changed for the worst is purely an opinion and an ignorant one at that, but it is your right to think that. The sky isn't falling, stop acting like it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj55555 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 And you have made it extremely clear that you are choosing to ignore that the Bible says do not hate anyone. You have been educated to that fact and are choosing to ignore it just so you can keep arguing which means you have no actual basis for your hate. Christians who follow the Bible do not hate gays, period. That is a fact. If you choose to stay ignorant to that, you are no better than the people who claim they are acting on what the Bible says and hating gays. You are blindly hating an entire group of people, justifying it with arbitrary reasons. So the Bible says that you should put homosexuals to death, not because you hate them, but because you love them? What is that? Love the homos to death? And what makes you think I "blindly hate an entire group of people"? I have many Christians in my family. I don't hate them. As they say, "Don't hate the playa. Hate the game." I hate the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArialBlue Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Why were these students attending the lecture in the first place? It makes no sense. How hard is to understand that the biggest opponents of homosexual rights are... *le shock* religious people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*RedBull* Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Savage is vocal towards bullies but bullies students out of a meeting....lol THolman 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excalpius Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Those individuals had the right to walk out if their beleifs are being desecrated just in as much as Savage had the right to spew his "opinion". Of course they do. The delusional, superstitious, and ignorant have the right to remain that way. And we have the right to ignore them as we move forward in the 21st century. shakey 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILikeTobacco Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 So the Bible says that you should put homosexuals to death, not because you hate them, but because you love them? What is that? Love the homos to death? You can claim it says whatever it says, but it's not taught that way. "Homosexuality" and "abomination" are words that are frequently used in Christian rhetoric. As I said, some Christian legislators even tried passing laws to give immunity from hate crime laws if the perp of a hate crime did so because of religion or "closely held belief". At this point you are just ignoring everything that has been said so you can continue to foster your blind hate. I have been to over 30 churches over the years and not once has a single person taught to kill homosexuals. You are just making stuff up now about something that you are ignorant towards. The fact that you didn't know the Bible teaches to hate no one shows that. Because of that, I am done arguing with you and I will let you remain delusional, superstitious and ignorant as we move into the 21st century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisj1968 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 well here's a case in point. Based upon what I know from reading about it in the scriptures(homosexuality) is right on the money. So add someone elses belief that having say, homosexual pastors or priests is ok, gives a very skewed belief. Can't preach from a bible that says it's wrong but yet lead others down a path that it is alright. that is hypocrisy. but truth be known, people pervert Christianity as they do perverting morality. there are "supposed" churches that promote "christian bars" where they drink only because they feel it makes it right due to the label "christian". now, yes, Jesus did turn water into wine... that's a popular story...BUT, he did not drink it although it was just grape juice and NOT alcoholic. that was just a wonder Jesus did to prove who he was. but some churches feel that they can runoff with this thinking it makes it ok for church goers to drink.. "well... Jesus made the water into wine..he must have drunk the grape juice.. bottoms up and amen!" I guess the point i'm getting at is, "if you don't believe in anything, you'll fall for anything." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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