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HawkMan

Why is that? Specify your reasons please. I will specify mine to support my reasons.

It gives us jobs making our life easier to fix other systems, getting rid of viruses and spyware with bootable flash drives. Non-technical users don't know how to do that so what harm will it cause really? It seems like they are dumbing down the platform to such an extent, you can't do anything except run Windows and that's it. One OS, one platform.

Errr, what does ANY of that have to do with unsigned driver... Except unsigned divers could make it easier to get viruses.

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Dot Matrix

Why is that? Specify your reasons please. I will specify mine to support my reasons.

It gives us jobs making our life easier to fix other systems, getting rid of viruses and spyware with bootable flash drives. Non-technical users don't know how to do that so what harm will it cause really? It seems like they are dumbing down the platform to such an extent, you can't do anything except run Windows and that's it. One OS, one platform.

Edit: Ok so you can use a portable hard drive (fixed disk vs removable) but why carry a mini brick with you when you can have a UFD.

Platform stability.

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rwx

Platform stability.

Although I dislike the fact, I have to agree with you and give you credit for your wise answer (I knew this, deep down). But again, making Windows BSOD is people's own fault when they install everything they should and shouldn't. I would be happy however if they implement built-in support for partitioning USB flash drives.

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Nick H.
Windows & Office still make Microsoft what/who it is.

The latter would really be the end of Microsoft. Give up all those EA agreements? Office and ecals for the client app access to the various server products are the big revenue generators. Windows OS and Server licensing trail far behind as far as the lucrative EAs go.

Technically I didn't mention dropping server support (more stupidly, I didn't think about servers when I posted :pinch:) or dropping Office. ;)

And I'm not sure so that dropping the PC market would destroy Microsoft. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not suggesting that this afternoon the guys get together and say, "right, we're stopping working with the PC market. Let's deactivate all of our PC products now." What I'm saying is that they could continue to support the older systems for their normal support life, but rather moving to working on Windows 9, just change it and aim for a tablet OS. If tablets are the way of the future then it sounds like a solid idea. Although with that huge "if" in that final sentence, I'm sure you can see how I agree that it wouldn't be a clever move.

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xWhiplash

Technically I didn't mention dropping server support (more stupidly, I didn't think about servers when I posted :pinch:) or dropping Office. ;)

And I'm not sure so that dropping the PC market would destroy Microsoft. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not suggesting that this afternoon the guys get together and say, "right, we're stopping working with the PC market. Let's deactivate all of our PC products now." What I'm saying is that they could continue to support the older systems for their normal support life, but rather moving to working on Windows 9, just change it and aim for a tablet OS. If tablets are the way of the future then it sounds like a solid idea. Although with that huge "if" in that final sentence, I'm sure you can see how I agree that it wouldn't be a clever move.

Explain to me how a tablet is the future vs a desktop computer for businesses? Some businesses have programs that are millions of lines. It takes a LONG time to compile even on a desktop. Why would you think a tablet would be better? How would a tablet perform in giant movie studios where they need A LOT of power to render movies?

If something happens to a tablet and it is years old (out of warranty), what can be done to fix it? If something happened to a desktop, the IT department can get a replacement hard drive, video card, power supply, or whatever the issue was.

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Nick H.

Explain to me how a tablet is the future vs a desktop computer for businesses? Some businesses have programs that are millions of lines. It takes a LONG time to compile even on a desktop. Why would you think a tablet would be better? How would a tablet perform in giant movie studios where they need A LOT of power to render movies?

I think you've missed my stance on this. I have never at any stage said that - in my opinion - tablets are the way of the future. I agree with what you said 100%. The post that you quoted was a follow-up from my original post here.

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techbeck

Windows is not over. MS has a history of every other major OS release being crap/not selling well. I also do not think the desktop era is over nor will it be for some time. But apparently MS thinks desktops are dying and is why they pretty much screwed the desktop users with Windows 8. Tablets are getting more popular but they are not ready or close to being ready to take over the desktop/PC.

IMO, MS should make Win8 boot to desktop, pin metro apps to taskbar, allow metro apps to be run in a window, and possible include the classic start menu. All these would help sales and again, this is my opinion.

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Dot Matrix

IMO, MS should make Win8 boot to desktop, pin metro apps to taskbar, allow metro apps to be run in a window, and possible include the classic start menu. All these would help sales and again, this is my opinion.

If Windows 7 isn't saving the PC market, then returning Windows 8 to a Windows 7 state won't either. You can't do things the same, and expect different results. Throwing things on the desktop as we do now, wouldn't change a thing, and it would hurt tablet UXs. It would also hurt future tech development, as Metro opens the door to other technologies on the desktop.

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fusi0n

Look, it is one of "those" threads again..

If Windows 7 isn't saving the PC market, then returning Windows 8 to a Windows 7 state won't either. You can't do things the same, and expect different results. Throwing things on the desktop as we do now, wouldn't change a thing, and it would hurt tablet UXs. It would also hurt future tech development, as Metro opens the door to other technologies on the desktop.

How would doing what he suggest hurt anything? If MS make it boot to desktop along with a start menu, I would be inclined to install it again.

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techbeck

If Windows 7 isn't saving the PC market, then returning Windows 8 to a Windows 7 state won't either.

I said it would help sales...meaning help Windows 8 sales and Win8 would be accepted more. Never said it would save the market.

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Dot Matrix

Look, it is one of "those" threads again..

How would doing what he suggest hurt anything? If MS make it boot to desktop along with a start menu, I would be inclined to install it again.

Because, like I said (and you conveniently ignored) Windows 7 NOW, isn't saving the PC market, so why would returning Windows 8 to a mouse only OS change things? (HINT: It wouldn't)

I said it would help sales...meaning help Windows 8 sales and Win8 would be accepted more. Never said it would save the market.

That's just the thing. Microsoft would (maybe) save sales short term, but what of the long term? They'd be hurting themselves more by doing what you suggest.

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techbeck

Windows 8 to a mouse only OS change things? (HINT: It wouldn't)

I dont want Win8 to mouse only...just give users the option to use what they want. Win8 is setup for touch while leaving the kb/m users in the cold. Win8 is supposed to be more secure, faster, and more reliable from the reviews and comments I have read. I hear the comment (Use Win7 if you dont like Win8) which is crap since Win7 users would be left out with the added benefits of Win8.

They'd be hurting themselves more by doing what you suggest.

How would they hurt themselves more?

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Dot Matrix

I dont want Win8 to mouse only...just give users the option to use what they want. Win8 is setup for touch while leaving the kb/m users in the cold. Win8 is supposed to be more secure, faster, and more reliable from the reviews and comments I have read. I hear the comment (Use Win7 if you dont like Win8) which is crap since Win7 users would be left out with the added benefits of Win8.

How would they hurt themselves more?

My mouse never stopped working when I installed 8...

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techbeck

My mouse never stopped working when I installed 8...

Thats not my point and not what I originally said. You mentioned Win8 and mouse only and why should MS return to mouse only.

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fusi0n

Because, like I said (and you conveniently ignored) Windows 7 NOW, isn't saving the PC market, so why would returning Windows 8 to a mouse only OS change things? (HINT: It wouldn't)

That's just the thing. Microsoft would (maybe) save sales short term, but what of the long term? They'd be hurting themselves more by doing what you suggest.

homer-faceplam-63457838843.jpeg

I never said go back to a MOUSE only.. but it would nice for microsoft to have made Windows 8 a great experience for both desktop and tablets

Thats not my point and not what I originally said. You mentioned Win8 and mouse only.

He likes to take things out of context.

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BajiRav

Those other departments, despite carefully crafted financial statements, cannot support Microsoft. Windows & Office still make Microsoft what/who it is.

The latter would really be the end of Microsoft. Give up all those EA agreements? Office and ecals for the client app access to the various server products are the big revenue generators. Windows OS and Server licensing trail far behind as far as the lucrative EAs go.

Although not as big, I think you are underestimating Windows server, Exchange, SharePoint and Lync. They all stand on their own merit and are profitable.

Explain to me how a tablet is the future vs a desktop computer for businesses? Some businesses have programs that are millions of lines. It takes a LONG time to compile even on a desktop. Why would you think a tablet would be better? How would a tablet perform in giant movie studios where they need A LOT of power to render movies?

If something happens to a tablet and it is years old (out of warranty), what can be done to fix it? If something happened to a desktop, the IT department can get a replacement hard drive, video card, power supply, or whatever the issue was.

Tablets as primary computing medium don't make speciality work requirements obsolete. When we switched to air travel for long distances, it suddenly didn't make cars obsolete.

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techbeck

but it would nice for microsoft to have made Windows 8 a great experience for both desktop and tablets

As would a lot of people and that is the biggest complaint against Win8...setup for tablets and not desktops.

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Dot Matrix

Thats not my point and not what I originally said. You mentioned Win8 and mouse only and why should MS return to mouse only.

It still doesn't make any sense for Microsoft to keep a dead UX attached to the codebase. Even if you did get the Start Menu back, it would still be ignored for the Metro UX, and eventually removed -again- in favor of the new UX. There would be no return on it, since Metro is where main development will be.

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BajiRav

As would a lot of people and that is the biggest complaint against Win8...setup for tablets and not desktops.

I think this was discussed before - if they did that, it will effectively kill the tablet side of it.

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Dot Matrix

I think this was discussed before - if they did that, it will effectively kill the tablet side of it.

Which is what my point was. It effectively kills the tablet side of things, which then effectively kills the long term outlook of Windows and Microsoft. Windows 8 isn't just about sales - People like to think everything is A-OK with the PC market with Windows 7 - It's not. The PC market is down, short term sales aren't going to save it, not while the mobile market is up - way up.

Microsoft is looking long term with Windows 8.

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techbeck

It still doesn't make any sense for Microsoft to keep a dead UX attached to the codebase.

Dead according to who? The only people who think it is dead are Win8 supporters. There is a reason why millions upon millions are downloading/installing a replacement classic start menu. Fact is, MS wants everyone to do what they want and there are no exceptions/compromises. And they can afford to do this and can get away with it since most people/companies use Windows. What are people going to do, change their whole environment to something other than Windows? No, they will either bitch and get by with what MS thinks is best, so stick with older outdated software.

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Deviate_X

lol, in all seriousness, when clumsily navigating the Start Page on a non-touch laptop with trackpad, I have reached out to swipe the screen. (Own a Surface RT, and Surface Pro still in box in the office.)

Doesn't the mouse wheel navigate the start page? normally you can just start typing the name of thing you want to run....

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techbeck

I think this was discussed before - if they did that, it will effectively kill the tablet side of it.

But then how can 3rd parties come out and release products that address peoples complaints with Win8?

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Dot Matrix

Dead according to who?

Microsoft. They want people on Metro, and will continue to develop and improve it. The Start Menu never had many improvements to it, and at this point, will never again. Bringing it back would only be detrimental to the UX. It would sit there gathering dust, while Microsoft moves ahead with the Metr UX.

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techbeck

Microsoft.

Obviously MS is out of touch...or wants everyone to think they way they are and to force people to change. Desktop is not dead and I really do not care/agree with what MS is saying.

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