Solution to get rid Windows 8 haters

[TruckWEB]

I don't like Windows 8, i use OSX on my iMac, got a Win7 gaming PC, I like iOS and I have a Samsung GS3 Android phone and I even have a Playbook.

SO, what am I missing? I still don't like Win8... But I do enjoy diversity.

And if EVEN Microsoft can't code better Modern UI apps, what are we suppose to expect from the rest of the developers?

[MorganX]

I talked to someone recently who loves Windows Phone (it is what she uses as well), and completely disliked Windows 8.

Yea, they are not similar experiences, obviously. I like Windows 8 a lot more than that but:

" don't understand the concepts behind the Metro/Modern UI""

Leaves me thinking, are you ****ing kidding me? Seriously?

[PGHammer]

Remind me what happened to Android 3.0 again, that's right it died a quick death because it was single purpose i.e. only for tablets. Just look at the Nexus 7 next to a Nexus 4 and you'll see that the Nexus 7 UI is just a scaled up Nexus 4 UI. It's not developed separately, it's just the same OS scaled up for a larger screen.

Precisely, neo. It was after even Google realized that keeping Android phone-only (and touch-only) was a bad move. Android 3.x was - admitted by Google itself - a *stopgap*. Ice Cream Sandwich was specifically intended to unify the until-then separate phone and tablet code bases. And how many Android tablets support keyboards? Except for the absolute low-end, all of them - in the middle and high-ends, quite a few include them. Keyboard support is in Android because not merely IHVs wanted it there, but lots of users (back in the bad old days prior to ICS) demanded it be there. The same, surprisingly, applies to iOS, though iOS keyboarders are a minority (and all of them are on the iPad side). Again, why is keyboard support there? It's called "user demand".

Yes - touch support is more obvious in Windows 8; that isn't news to anyone. (It shouldn't have been news to the anti-ModernUI crowd.) However, it didn't replace, obviate, or even disturb keyboard and mouse usage, for the very simple reason that you CAN maneuver around ModernUI using ONLY a keyboard and mouse, just as you can maneuver around either Ice Cream Sandwich or Jellybean using the same. No touch is even necessary. ModernUI is a *fusion* UI - unlike Win32, which is biased toward keyboards (but can be extended - the first extension was, in fact for mice), ModernUI was designed to be more neutral than Win32. (That's right - ModernUI is, in point of fact, LESS biased than Win32 as far as how you use it is concerned; the reason why Win32 is favored is because its biases are known and accepted by developers. Developing for a biased UI is easier than developing for a more neutral UI/UX - I'm not saying it alone; developers that came to ModernUI development from Win32 development are.) It wouldn't surprise me one bit if it turns out that Dragon Systems is working on a ModernUI extension for voice support, for the SAME reason that they wrote the Win32 extension for the same. Does - or has - VOICE support break support for keyboards and mice in Win32? Unless you code sloppily, it shouldn't. (Lots of data on that, because the Dragon Voice add-in for Win32 is old - I mentioned earlier that it dates back to XP. The only Win32 applications that refuse to work with the extension have one thing in common - sloppy code. It's not my data stating it - it's Dragon Systems' data, and Microsoft's data.) Voice support isn't natural - no operating system was developed to support voice from the get-go - not even iOS. (SIRI is, in fact, an add-in for iOS; one of its ancestors is Dragon Voice.) What the anti-ModernUI crowd is angry about is that ModernUI isn't biased in their direction - towards keyboards and mice. No, it's not - it isn't Win32.

[Growled Member]

And if EVEN Microsoft can't code better Modern UI apps, what are we suppose to expect from the rest of the developers?

I've been wondering this myself.

[Rippleman]

I've been wondering this myself.

i recently experienced the windows 8 phone HTC 8X, I wondered about this same thing too a couple days ago. For example their skype app. They own and code Windows Phone. The own and code Skype. But yet the Skype experience is better on the iphone? even basic things like sending a pic is unavailable in Skype windows phone and makes you wonder WHY? Sure it looks great, but... there is a reason why you wouldn't date a girl that was all looks and no brains.

[PGHammer]

i recently experienced the windows 8 phone HTC 8X, I wondered about this same thing too a couple days ago. For example their skype app. They own and code Windows Phone. The own and code Skype. But yet the Skype experience is better on the iphone? even basic things like sending a pic is unavailable in Skype windows phone and makes you wonder WHY? Sure it looks great, but... there is a reason why you wouldn't date a girl that was all looks and no brains.

How old are each set of apps? (I'm referring to iOS, Windows Phone, ModernUI - the ModernUI app is the newest.) Is the WP app 7 and 8, or 8-specific? There could well be features one OS can use that the other cannot - therefore, the target is set by the LEAST-capable OS; examples are any multi-platform game. As development teams code each specific application, they gain experience writing code that matches the capabilities - they can't all hit home runs every time they step up to the plate. (Android has their own series of clunky apps - some are, in fact, STILL showing up in the Google Play store. Same applies to iOS.)

[PGHammer]

So let's talk about Start Menu and Start Screen.

Yes they are not the same. They're just giving us different ways of accomplishing the same goal, which is launching, finding, organizing apps in a central place. Now that we got that out of the way, let's talk about the differences.

Start Menu (Windows 7)

- activated by clicking start button (left lower corner), windows key, etc.

- slim panel on the left lower corner

- start jump list

- recent/most used programs

- cascading program folders on the left (All Programs)

- various default folders on the right (control panel, computer, liberary folders)

- shutdown/standby/restart button (dropdown)

- search (visible, can type right away)

Start Screen (Windows 8)

- activated by moving mouse pointer to right lower corner and left-click, windows key, etc.

- full screen

- live tiles (status, updates, interactive)

- groups (can be named, ordering is possible)

- sideslide (mouse-wheel, move mouse pointer to the right, scrollbar)

- all apps (right-click, all apps)

- overview (little " - " in the right lower corner)

- search (not visible, can type right away)

The biggest visual difference is of course the "full screen" vs. "slim menu panel". This is the part where people think that it's two OS in one. People argue about why they have to "leave" the desktop just to start or search for some apps or programs. The other party say it's easier to reach, easier to find and easier to navigate to. And I would say it doesn't matter with a "Windows-Key-And-Type"-style of navigating.

Then there is the difference between "cascading folders" vs. "live tiles in groups". The one camp says it's more organized and not as cluttered, the other camp argues with interactivity and visibility and it still can be organized with groups.

The other thing is the navigating. People argues it's not natural to navigate in the Start Screen with the mouse because it's more touch centric. You have to scroll sideways and it takes too long to find a tile. But in the Start Menu you also have to scroll to find the right folder. Then there is one more additional step of clicking on the folder so it cascade to find the right program. My advice: Use the mousewheel (for those who has one), for touchpad users, you can just slide from left to right to scroll (depends on the gesture mode of the touchpads). But ultimatively my advice would be again: "Windows-Key and type" for both Windows 7 and Windows 8 users.

Alot of people also complains about that the shutdown button is hard to find and it takes too long to get there. First of all, withouth any shortcuts, hotkeys or whatsoever, it takes exactly 4 steps in both Windows 7 and Windows 8 to execute a shutdown. So that's not an argument. The argument here is elsewhere, it's that with the always visible Start Button and Menu you have a visual cue you can navigate to. But with the hot corners and Charms Bar you have to make it visible in order to get a visual cue. People have problems with that. My way would be the "ALT+F4 and ENTER" way. So simple and both camps can use that. And if the argument comes up that you have to remember this hotkey, I would say this is one of the few universal hotkeys that everybody should know, right next to crtl+alt+del, crtl+c and crtl+v.

Start Screen has no start jump list. Start Menu has one. Some people might use it. I don't. It's convenient for those who use it. It doesn't matter for those who has never used it before.

Search. Hit Windows Key and start typing. The difference here is the way the results are displayed. Either windowed or full screen (and in different categories). Can't really say much here. Except that I just found out that you can't search for folders in Windows 8. Only files in said folder. This should be adressed in Blue.

All in all it's really a matter of preferences here. But since the Start Menu has been there for so long, of course people will be biased towards it. If the Start Screen would have been there before the Start Menu, I think the same people would be bitching about the Start Menu instead of the Start Screen.

Summary:

Two different ways of achieving the same goal. Both has pros and cons. It's about users preferences. But don't be biased. Give the new Start Screen a fair chance. Once you've wrapped your head around it, it will stick.

And, unless you have customized folders (standard in Windows 7 or before) you typically aren't going to search for a specific folder. (Specific applications yes, but NOT a specific application folder.) Here's a surprise - in Windows 8, I have refused to organize my StartScreen, for the simple reason that a "standard" StartScreen search is not just blazingly fast, but crisply "effective". Lots of folks in 7 and earlier pretty much HAD to, for the reason that the Start Menu can get pretty darn unwieldy if you follow the "kitchen sink" approach when installing applications or application suites (two major examples are Microsoft Office and Visual Studio Professional - both on desktops and workstations - or Microsoft System Center (any version) on servers). Now, with Windows 8 (or Windows Server 2012, which has the same UI) I have one less housekeeping task to deal with - menu organization.

[soniqstylz]

I find it quite hilarious how sensitive Windows 8 fans are.

Question: Why do they care? Aren't they aware most of us are just pushing their buttons tiles?

Lighten up, Windows 8 lovers. ;)

Fixed.

[Dashel]

Now, with Windows 8 I have one less housekeeping task to deal with - menu organization.

That is simply not true. Perhaps if you spent more time fact checking and less time rambling you would stop making so many careless errors.

You have the same issue as before, but it is compounded now with the auto-pinning nature of Win8's Taskbar Screen, not allevated.

[PGHammer]

That is simply not true. Perhaps if you spent more time fact checking and less time rambling you would stop making so many careless errors.

You have the same issue as before, but it is compounded now with the auto-pinning nature of Win8's Taskbar Screen, not allevated.

How is it compounded?

A standard keyboard-driven (not touch-driven) search of my applications is in alphabetical order; if I know as many as the first THREE letters of what I'm searching for (more often than not, even with my chockablock StartScreen, I need just the first letter), I've hit the jackpot. (To start a search of the StartScreen, use the Windows logo key, then start typing the name of what you're seeking. No Charm Bar needed - no touch support needed, either.)

[Noir Angel]

And, unless you have customized folders (standard in Windows 7 or before) you typically aren't going to search for a specific folder. (Specific applications yes, but NOT a specific application folder.) Here's a surprise - in Windows 8, I have refused to organize my StartScreen, for the simple reason that a "standard" StartScreen search is not just blazingly fast, but crisply "effective". Lots of folks in 7 and earlier pretty much HAD to, for the reason that the Start Menu can get pretty darn unwieldy if you follow the "kitchen sink" approach when installing applications or application suites (two major examples are Microsoft Office and Visual Studio Professional - both on desktops and workstations - or Microsoft System Center (any version) on servers). Now, with Windows 8 (or Windows Server 2012, which has the same UI) I have one less housekeeping task to deal with - menu organization.

Seeing what a horrible mess Nero makes when you install it I wouldn't call it more organised at all, if you have enough applications installed it can become an unwieldy and cluttered mess. Never had that problem with the Windows 7 start menu, I know where all my apps are and I've never had to mess once with my start menu

[articuno1au]

I can't believe no one has suggested this.. Best way to get rid of Windows 8 Haters..

MASS HANGINGS..

[PGHammer]

Seeing what a horrible mess Nero makes when you install it I wouldn't call it more organised at all, if you have enough applications installed it can become an unwieldy and cluttered mess. Never had that problem with the Windows 7 start menu, I know where all my apps are and I've never had to mess once with my start menu

Nero is a far-more egregious offender than Office or even Visual Studio when it comes to mass-dumping of applications all over the place - thankfully I was able to boot it to the curb before I started testing the Windows 8 Developer Preview. And how many folders (application-group folders, that is) are in your Start menu?

Windows 8's StartScreen-based search, unlike the more-familiar Start menu search, doesn't rely on the tree mechanism that has been in Windows since File Manager (which is likely why it's seen as unintuitive - it goes against what we have learned) - instead, it's in alphabetical order, and doesn't respect groups. There are similar search mechanisms in other operating systems (Finder in OS X uses a similar metric, though the third-party PathFinder is even closer) - however, unless you've used OS X or Linux, it CAN be a bit jarring.

Still, your reaction is all too typical of those that have a distaste for Windows 8 in general and ModernUI in particular - it's too different from what you are used to.

[+KibosJ Subscriber²]

Nero is a far-more egregious offender than Office or even Visual Studio when it comes to mass-dumping of applications all over the place - thankfully I was able to boot it to the curb before I started testing the Windows 8 Developer Preview. And how many folders (application-group folders, that is) are in your Start menu?

The latest version of Nero? 1 Tile :o They fixed that with 12 :)

[Motoko.]

I want to get rid of OP

[Shaun N.]

I want to get rid of OP

THE first post I have ever liked from humanz! EVER!!!

[LUTZIFER]

The solution must be keeping this post going, annoying the f out of the Windows 8 haters, hey? Only MS can actually fix it though.

The solution must be keeping this post going, annoying the f out of the Windows 8 haters, hey? Only MS can actually fix it though.

[Tigurinn]

This should be enough to get rid of all the Windows 8 'haters':

:)

[LimeMaster]

I want to get rid of OP

It was JUST a suggestion. :(

Sure you can lock this topic, but why ban someone over a suggestion?

[Noir Angel]

Nero is a far-more egregious offender than Office or even Visual Studio when it comes to mass-dumping of applications all over the place - thankfully I was able to boot it to the curb before I started testing the Windows 8 Developer Preview. And how many folders (application-group folders, that is) are in your Start menu?

Windows 8's StartScreen-based search, unlike the more-familiar Start menu search, doesn't rely on the tree mechanism that has been in Windows since File Manager (which is likely why it's seen as unintuitive - it goes against what we have learned) - instead, it's in alphabetical order, and doesn't respect groups. There are similar search mechanisms in other operating systems (Finder in OS X uses a similar metric, though the third-party PathFinder is even closer) - however, unless you've used OS X or Linux, it CAN be a bit jarring.

Still, your reaction is all too typical of those that have a distaste for Windows 8 in general and ModernUI in particular - it's too different from what you are used to.

I don't give a crap about search, the fact is that the way it is set up can see it turn into an uncluttered mess very quickly. I'm not bothered by it being different I am bothered by the fact that it's completely backwards. It's also daunting and frustrating for people to use who prefer mouse over keyboard.

[Motoko.]

It was JUST a suggestion. :(

Sure you can lock this topic, but why ban someone over a suggestion?

Windows 8 is the Justin Bieber of Operating Systems. You're always going to have a few fanboys and girls but a majority base of users who see what a clown's excuse for an interface, Modern UI actually is.

[Atomic Wanderer Chicken]

Alot of the Windows 8 haters are those who used Windows for along time! I say Windows 8 is the most controversal Windows of all time! I personally dont hate Windows 8 because as long as I can use the start screen as the start menu and run legacy programs, Windows 8 is a fine. I especially like the new task manager and updated windows explorer menus in Windows 8 also. People are entitled to their expressions of whether they like or dislike something. Windows 8 does have some issues, some Windows 7 programs and drivers did not work with Windows 8. I had issues with installing wireless dell printer drivers/software, and I also had issues installing ATI Radeon drivers on my older laptop. Additionally, I was installing to test a Windows 8 release preview on a 2004 emachines pc with Athlon XP processor, and it would not install due to a processor incompatibility which was absolutely bizzare! WIndows 8 is far from perfect, but it is a good OS. WIndows 8 needs alot of maturing still!

[syobon999]

let me get this straight:

I CAN'T SAY WINDOWS 8 SUCKS, BECAUSE ITs REALLY TERRIBLE and my comments are deleted/thread closed but I can say how get "rid" of people who don't like Windows 8?

please change the website name to Neonazi.

[Atomic Wanderer Chicken]

let me get this straight:

I CAN'T SAY WINDOWS 8 SUCKS, BECAUSE ITs REALLY TERRIBLE and my comments are deleted/thread closed but I can say how get "rid" of people who don't like Windows 8?

please change the website name to Neonazi.

You could say Windows XP sucked, or Windows 7 sucked (far from it), but if you say Windows 8 sucks on Neowin, you get maimed and trampled by a mob! It must be because Microsoft is putting their future on Windows 8 and if it fails, then it would be the end! People have the right to express their opinion on something! I like Windows 8, but I think Microsoft should have waited to release it so they could make it a more complete and finished OS! Windows 7 has a less chaotic and more consistant interface, on the other hand Windows 8 is speedier and more modern feeling.

[Mr. Gibs]

You could say Windows XP sucked, or Windows 7 sucked (far from it), but if you say Windows 8 sucks on Neowin, you get maimed and trampled by a mob! It must be because Microsoft is putting their future on Windows 8 and if it fails, then it would be the end! People have the right to express their opinion on something! I like Windows 8, but I think Microsoft should have waited to release it so they could make it a more complete and finished OS!

There are / were tons of people who would get all up in arms if you said windows xp or windows 7 sucked. Hell tons of people still on XP who think it's the greatest OS ever made.