formula 1 Formula 1 World Championship 2014 Season Discussion

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

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[xdot.tk]

Can someone explain some things to me?

 

I was under the impression that the 2014 power units were not going to be frozen but that there would be allowed a second off-season of development so that manufacturers could achieve "engine" parity like they had during the V8's.

 

From recent articles, it appears I was wrong. Is this so and what exactly led to this?

 

If this is in fact so, does anyone see any way that a non Mercedes powered car has a snowballs chance in hell of ever winning another championship? That would truly suck for the sport if that turns out to be the case.

 

PS. I know about Honda. Let's leave them out of the equation for the moment.

[i11usive]

Jenson Button?s 15-year Formula One career will end at the final race of the season in Abu Dhabi on November 23.

Sportsmail understands that McLaren will bring in double world champion Fernando Alonso to replace the Briton with an announcement imminent.

Button, 34, has waited for months in the hope that his rookie team-mate Kevin Magnussen would be the one to make way if Alonso signed but McLaren principal Eric Boullier believes that 22-year-old Magnussen will complement Alonso better than Button.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-2822752/Jenson-Button-quit-Formula-One-Fernando-Alonso-replace-Brit-McLaren.html

[MightyJordan]

^^ I'm still taking Button's exit with a pinch of salt until McLaren confirm it themselves (especially since the Daily Mail's the source).

[Skiver Veteran]

Can someone explain some things to me?

 

I was under the impression that the 2014 power units were not going to be frozen but that there would be allowed a second off-season of development so that manufacturers could achieve "engine" parity like they had during the V8's.

 

From recent articles, it appears I was wrong. Is this so and what exactly led to this?

 

If this is in fact so, does anyone see any way that a non Mercedes powered car has a snowballs chance in hell of ever winning another championship? That would truly suck for the sport if that turns out to be the case.

 

PS. I know about Honda. Let's leave them out of the equation for the moment.

 

My understanding is that the current argument among the teams is about in season engine changes. At the beginning of each year, all 5 Engines and their parts are homologated for the season ahead. Some teams (Red Bull) are saying that due to the problems they experienced during the beginning of the year means effectively they have to write off their chances before the first race even starts because any issues found can't be rectified throughout the season.

 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but i believe that's what the current argument is about. Mercedes are obviously against it (not just because of them having what seems to be the most stable power unit) because they claim that in doing so it will open the sport to money being thrown at the engines and increasing the costs which is obviously another hot topic at the moment. I can't remember where I heard/read it but the cost of the engines went from 5M (V8's) to 15M for the newer V6 Hybrid power units so you can see why they want to keep costs down.

[xdot.tk]

Skiver, thanks.

 

What about my question about anyone other than Mercedes being able to win any championship if the status quo remains?

Do you agree that no one but a Mercedes powered team will be able to win from now on?

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

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[Skiver Veteran]

Skiver, thanks.

 

What about my question about anyone other than Mercedes being able to win any championship if the status quo remains?

Do you agree that no one but a Mercedes powered team will be able to win from now on?

No I have to say I don't agree. Other than one of the Merc Drivers, who else has actually won this year? That's right a car with a Renault engine in it, three times as well, not just a one off when they had issues in Canada.

 

If we had a Merc engined car potentially able to win, then in theory next year that would be 1 of 4 teams, for a start when was the last time we saw 1 in 4 with a chance at winning the title? If that happens then sorry to the others but that would be an amazing season. I don't think Ferrari's engines are that far behind, I think the issue more the car itself. 

 

At at the very end we have Mclaren Honda - if prep time is going to count then Honda could be the new Mercedes and storm it, which some people believe will happen, Alonso looking to be one of them. Hamilton's switch to Mercedes in his first year could have been a horrible decision, but look at him now. If Alonso or Vettel (Or both as I believe) are switching, you can count they are looking to repeat what Hamilton has achieved by doing so.

 

Then if you look at the fact that at a Renault engine has powered its way to the front on 3 separate occasions I think next year we will see it happen a lot more often. I'm not denying they are somewhat down on power but all Renault Engine cars started the season on the back foot. The dominant Red Bulls did less laps across the entire Winter then a Mercedes did in on pretty much any one day. That hurt them horribly, they went into the first race guessing how their car might perform. 

 

Of course right now, this is pure speculation, but given that next year ( I believe) is pretty relaxed in terms of rule changes we are going to see big steps in evolution, something Red Bull have shown they are great at. If that's the case, expect Red Bull and Williams at the very least to be fighting at the pointy end and more than likely a Honda powered Mclaren joining the party. I don't expect Mercedes to be as dominant as its a lot harder to find time in something that's already fast.

[MightyJordan]

[MightyJordan]

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[xdot.tk]

No I have to say I don't agree. Other than one of the Merc Drivers, who else has actually won this year? That's right a car with a Renault engine in it, three times as well, not just a one off when they had issues in Canada.

 

If we had a Merc engined car potentially able to win, then in theory next year that would be 1 of 4 teams, for a start when was the last time we saw 1 in 4 with a chance at winning the title? If that happens then sorry to the others but that would be an amazing season. I don't think Ferrari's engines are that far behind, I think the issue more the car itself. 

 

At at the very end we have Mclaren Honda - if prep time is going to count then Honda could be the new Mercedes and storm it, which some people believe will happen, Alonso looking to be one of them. Hamilton's switch to Mercedes in his first year could have been a horrible decision, but look at him now. If Alonso or Vettel (Or both as I believe) are switching, you can count they are looking to repeat what Hamilton has achieved by doing so.

 

Then if you look at the fact that at a Renault engine has powered its way to the front on 3 separate occasions I think next year we will see it happen a lot more often. I'm not denying they are somewhat down on power but all Renault Engine cars started the season on the back foot. The dominant Red Bulls did less laps across the entire Winter then a Mercedes did in on pretty much any one day. That hurt them horribly, they went into the first race guessing how their car might perform. 

 

Of course right now, this is pure speculation, but given that next year ( I believe) is pretty relaxed in terms of rule changes we are going to see big steps in evolution, something Red Bull have shown they are great at. If that's the case, expect Red Bull and Williams at the very least to be fighting at the pointy end and more than likely a Honda powered Mclaren joining the party. I don't expect Mercedes to be as dominant as its a lot harder to find time in something that's already fast.

 

I'll just give a quick reply now because I'm in the middle of watching P2.

 

My original question asked to leave out Honda. Sorry, I forgot to restate that on my followup.

 

Now as to Renault's wins, all came as a result of problems with the mercs. You mentioned what happened in Canada but remember, in Hungary, Nico got caught out by the safety car and Lewis started from the pitlane. In Spa, we all know what happened. Both cars were put on the back foot. Hamilton with a puncture and damaged floor and Nico's car needed a front wing replacement. Danny had a trouble free race. These types of races are not going to be the norm.

[MightyJordan]

Brazillian Grand Prix - Practice 1

[Skiver Veteran]

 

I'll just give a quick reply now because I'm in the middle of watching P2.

 

My original question asked to leave out Honda. Sorry, I forgot to restate that on my followup.

 

Now as to Renault's wins, all came as a result of problems with the mercs. You mentioned what happened in Canada but remember, in Hungary, Nico got caught out by the safety car and Lewis started from the pitlane. In Spa, we all know what happened. Both cars were put on the back foot. Hamilton with a puncture and damaged floor and Nico's car needed a front wing replacement. Danny had a trouble free race. These types of races are not going to be the norm.

 

Sorry didn't see your earlier post regarding Honda :)

 

I admit I overlooked Hamilton in Hungary and the incident in Spa, but keeping that in mind, it still wasn't a Merc engine to pick up those pieces. RBR have been poor in quali throughout the year but throughout the year, RBR are there to pickup the places and overtake what should be strong Merc engined cars time and time again. Ricciardo is still sat in 3rd and RBR are still 2nd in the constructors.

 

There was an interview with Horner about this and he said something along the lines that having Merc cars making up the top end of the championship is not good for the sport etc but lets actually take a look at the top 6 in the standings right now.

 

Drivers:

Lewis, Rosber, Ricciardo, Bottas, Vettel, Alonso,

 

only half actually have a Merc engine in the above and although its two thirds below, one third make up the last third.

 

Constructors:

Merc, Red Bull, Williams, Ferrari, Mclaren, Force India

 

I think there is a perception that the Mercedes Engine is by far dominant, when what I believe is that the Mercedes CAR is by far dominant. Williams have finally put together a good car (we all know they had it in them). Mclaren being in 5th proves it in my eyes. They are one of the most successful teams in the sport, and they may have the edge now, but for a while they were fighting with a Force India. Lotus, we know has had a shocking car this year, their woes can certainly not be put on Renault.

For sure the "leading team" will have a slip up and allow someone who wouldn't normally have a chance to pickup the pieces, but Ricciardo has done it in style and with true skill. He wasn't sat in 3rd waiting for the mistake and cruising by, he was out fighting for places and overtaking. They were, by far no easy victories and he fought harder than any other car on the grid to get them. 

 

Judging by the pace he is showing in FP2, I would not be surprised if the Merc's find themselves under a little more pressure come the race this weekend.

[xdot.tk]

Well let's hope your right and it's the car. If it isn't, we are back to the Schumacher days which is what is concerning me. I tuned out for a couple of years during that period but am a much bigger F1 fan now so I'll probably keep watching uninterrupted until I die.

 

I here what you say about Danny. He's outstanding and has world champion written all over him. I'm a huge fan of his.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

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[MightyJordan]

Brazilian Grand Prix - Practice 2

[MightyJordan]

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[MightyJordan]

Brazillian Grand Prix - Practice 3

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI8HkZ2g6kg

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

[Noir Angel]

I disagree, The first 5 races Hamilton won 4 and Rosberg won 1 after Hamilton retired, the only reason Rosberg has so many points was more to do with Hamiltons car problems, the reason Hamilton has been so dominate recently is he hasn't had any car problems for a while, Lewis has won 10 races vs Rosbergs 4, Rosberg doesn't deserve the championship. 

 

I'd say his racecraft has also been a lot better... Of his latest 5 race string of wins, 2 have come from on track overtakes, and a third from pressuring Rosberg into a mistake then passing him when he went off track.

 

Can someone explain some things to me?

 

I was under the impression that the 2014 power units were not going to be frozen but that there would be allowed a second off-season of development so that manufacturers could achieve "engine" parity like they had during the V8's.

 

From recent articles, it appears I was wrong. Is this so and what exactly led to this?

 

If this is in fact so, does anyone see any way that a non Mercedes powered car has a snowballs chance in hell of ever winning another championship? That would truly suck for the sport if that turns out to be the case.

 

PS. I know about Honda. Let's leave them out of the equation for the moment.

 

The way it's going to works is that teams are going to be allocated a number of points, with different parts of the engine being worth different amounts of points. The designers will pick what parts of the engine they wish to change until they eat up their point allocation.

 

According to the Sky F1 (UK) feed, a source that they didn't identify said that a source within Mercedes thinks that it's identified a way of adding another 60hp to their engine, if that's true I'd say Ferrari and Renault have practically no chance of catching up.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

 

Man of the race: Nico Rosberg

Reject of the race: Felipe Massa for trying to stop at the McLaren pit. 

[MightyJordan]

Reject of the race: Felipe Massa for trying to stop at the McLaren pit. 

http://www.gfycat.com/GargantuanInformalAtlanticsharpnosepuffer

[simonlang]

i thought p3 was gone for felipe after that incident with the speed limiter. if it's true and the limiter was just not working as expected - this happens, even to the best ones, schuey used to have the same problem some time.

clearly his speed was there, so well deserved p3 for him.

generally, due to the time-shift we often see more mistakes in interlagos than on other race tracks. kimis pitstop, hamiltons driving error, bottas was off track once too.

well deserved p1 for nico, i did not expect him to hold the pressure, but who knows? maybe the momentum has shifted back to him after hamiltons wins and somehow i expect something crazy to happen in abu dhabi, we have seen some crazy races there, first in 2010 where alonso lost his title and in 2012 where vettel had to chase through the field so i expect in 2014 a lot of action as well.

[AndyMutz]

 

video doesn't work for me.

 

 -andy-