Formula 1 World Championship 2015 Season Discussion


  

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Chicane-UK

Thing is they seem to be upset that they feel that somehow Mercedes has some kind of advantage in their engines that the other teams are simply unable to get near to. But isn't it a fairly widely held belief that the Red Bull wasn't purely just a great design but actually had some kind of hidden aerodynamic or special diffuser arrangement that made is so strong for so many years (and was therefore a 'creative' interpretation of the FIA rules, which is presumably all Mercedes have done to make their car so strong this year). 

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Skiver

Exactly. RBR was utterly dominant and never during that time did they whine about the rules being bad for the sport. Even last year CH stated that it was other teams job to catch up with Mercedes. Now they're threatening to quit the sport again (they made the same threat last year) and calling for Mercedes to be disadvantaged by the FIA. Williams, on the other hand, has praised Mercedes and said they'll be working hard to close the gap.

 

If RBR is only interested in the sport if they can win and intend to quit then good riddance. What RBR is doing, all the moaning about the regulations and Mercedes, is bad for the sport. Ferrari hasn't won the WCC since 2008 but rather than quit the sport they've worked hard and look to have a decent car this year.

 

Then thing I don't get is why they are aiming their frustrations at Mercedes when clearly, their biggest issue this year and last has been Renault, Lotus could see that and dropped them.

 

I've seen articles in which CH has stated that the Renault engine is 100BHP short on the Merc PU's but given that they actually have some ability to deliver their enginers this year I would be jumping up and down at Renault and telling them if they don't pull their fingers out they will drop them. I don't want to see that happen, we need diversity among the engines but Renault just aren't doing a good enough job IMO.

 

Look at Mclaren too, they have gone for something different too because of a lack of success, and they have had the Merc engine.

 

 

Thing is they seem to be upset that they feel that somehow Mercedes has some kind of advantage in their engines that the other teams are simply unable to get near to. But isn't it a fairly widely held belief that the Red Bull wasn't purely just a great design but actually had some kind of hidden aerodynamic or special diffuser arrangement that made is so strong for so many years (and was therefore a 'creative' interpretation of the FIA rules, which is presumably all Mercedes have done to make their car so strong this year). 

 

There were investigations into flexible noses and the double diffusers countless times. He just shrugged it off and made statements like it just shows we are doing a good job if the other guys want to slow us down.

 

I do however to an extent agree with him on one aspect. I would like to see other teams fighting for the top step and it not just being a duel between the two Merc drivers as long as despite all that, Hamilton still comes out on top :p

 

I do think we will see a resurgence at Ferrari and with Vettel at the wheel this year, they have as good a chance as any to take it to them.

 

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Chicane-UK

Yeah I think there are several arguments here - the hypocrisy from Horner towards Mercedes is quite entertaining, but I think his frustrations reflect those of many fans of F1. It's no pleasure having one team utterly dominating - it's no longer a sport when one team basically are guaranteed to win it, unless outside influences such as a crash or mechanical failure get in the way. 

 

I'm fairly happy to see Lewis succeeding but I'm sure even he must wish there was a bit more of a fight and it wasn't quite the walk in the park for Mercedes that it is right now. 

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Skiver

Yeah I think there are several arguments here - the hypocrisy from Horner towards Mercedes is quite entertaining, but I think his frustrations reflect those of many fans of F1. It's no pleasure having one team utterly dominating - it's no longer a sport when one team basically are guaranteed to win it, unless outside influences such as a crash or mechanical failure get in the way. 

 

I'm fairly happy to see Lewis succeeding but I'm sure even he must wish there was a bit more of a fight and it wasn't quite the walk in the park for Mercedes that it is right now. 

 

I think Hamilton has said in the past that he has never wanted a walk in the park when it comes to the championship, Rosberg has made similar comments this weekend but got some stick from Vettel for it;

 

 

Sebastian Vettel poked fun at Nico Rosberg's suggestion he wants to see the field close up after Mercedes' dominant one-two at the Australian Grand Prix.

 

Australia confirmed Mercedes has carried over a huge advantage from 2014, with Vettel 34 seconds adrift of Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg in third. In the post-race press conference Rosberg was asked for his opinion on the huge gap enjoyed by Mercedes.

 

"I hope we can have a good fight," he replied. "That would be awesome. I think the next couple of races we're going to be leading the way for sure, and we're going to try and keep it that way, but we know it would be good if they can come a bit closer, as long as they don't come too close

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Skiver

 

Yep, most articles have one liner including this, but its not as shocking and click worthy to read... RBR could quit F1..in 5 years time.

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MightyJordan

We are probably gonna see pandemonium at the Belgian Grand Prix this year...

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Noir Angel

Formula 1 is an engineering competition and always has been, purposely holding back one team so the others can catch up goes against everything the sport stands for. Renault pushed just as hard as Mercedes for these new regulations, so suck it up and improve your product. Red Bull's arrogance is nothing but a bad joke. As for Mercedes giving customer teams de-tuned engines, that is complete BS. Mercedes would want to give everyone the same spec of engine to enable themselves to gather performance data, plus producing 2 specs of engine would be a lot more expensive. Mercedes simply have a packaging advantage because they designed the engine and chassis to work together.

 

And I really don't buy the argument that they're just in front because of engine power, they have a great chassis. In short the other teams need to stop whining and produce a better product.

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theyarecomingforyou

Yeah I think there are several arguments here - the hypocrisy from Horner towards Mercedes is quite entertaining, but I think his frustrations reflect those of many fans of F1. It's no pleasure having one team utterly dominating - it's no longer a sport when one team basically are guaranteed to win it, unless outside influences such as a crash or mechanical failure get in the way.

F1 has always been this way. Go back to 1988 and you had four years of McLaren winning, then three years of Williams, one year Benetton then another two years of Williams, one of McLaren then six years of Ferrari, two years of Renault, two more years of Ferrari, one for Brawn, then four years of Red Bull and now we've had one year of Mercedes, with the potential for a second this year.

 

The point is that the sport is cyclical. RBR was happy when it was at the top, yet moans and threatens to quit the sport when it's someone else's turn. As much as I like Hamilton I don't want to see Mercedes be utterly dominant but the sport is still just as entertaining as ever. In fact it means that the competition has to work that much harder to win. Few would have thought Mercedes would be so utterly dominant when Hamilton moved there.

 

If Mercedes becomes too dominant

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vanx

1. Manor turned up only to get money and to give their sponsors visibility. They never had an intention to race, no matter what they say. I am glad that Bernie is now making them pay for freight.

 

2. Does anyone else hate the frequency with which the word "driveability" is being used. It's mentioned in almost every other sentence. It's tiring to hear it over and over.

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JoeC

Few would have thought Mercedes would be so utterly dominant when Hamilton moved there.

 

I remember an interview with Lewis just after he'd signed with Mercedes and he compared it to the start of the Schumacher/Ferrari days, with the potential to work with a team and help turn it into one which could dominate the championships. I didn't think much of it at the time (words are easy) but it seems like they're about as well set-up as they could be to actually manage something like that. I know it's only a year in, just in terms of the here-and-now, they're pretty much where they need to be to have a chance at making that happen.

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Skiver

Formula 1 is an engineering competition and always has been, purposely holding back one team so the others can catch up goes against everything the sport stands for. Renault pushed just as hard as Mercedes for these new regulations, so suck it up and improve your product. Red Bull's arrogance is nothing but a bad joke. As for Mercedes giving customer teams de-tuned engines, that is complete BS. Mercedes would want to give everyone the same spec of engine to enable themselves to gather performance data, plus producing 2 specs of engine would be a lot more expensive. Mercedes simply have a packaging advantage because they designed the engine and chassis to work together.

 

And I really don't buy the argument that they're just in front because of engine power, they have a great chassis. In short the other teams need to stop whining and produce a better product.

 

Toto has said it himself its not down to pure power;

 

 

"The most difference we see is mid- to high-speed corners - that seems to be the strength of the car," Mercedes boss Toto Wolff said. "That was the strength of the Red Bulls and it now seems to be where we are looking most competitive.

"We see a deficit from our car on the straights in comparison to Williams and Ferrari, they have much more straight line speed - as much as 10-12km/h in terms of straight-line speed, so less drag."

Read more at http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motorsport/story/194835.html#IfuZSoFRH8lfFdgQ.99

 

Formula one has and always will be more about aero and downforce than anything else. If you can take the fast corners flat then you will leave the others behind at most tracks.

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Skiver

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Erm, perhaps if you hadn't tried to screw a driver out of money and contract, there wouldn't be a fight to have  :rofl:

 

Unless we don't have the full story on this, I cannot believe how nonchalant Sauber appear to be over this all. If I was that teams PR I'd be trying to apologies to the fans, not make out that VDG is the bad guy here. I honestly expect kaltenborn to step down this year over this.

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SledgeNZ

 

Erm, perhaps if you hadn't tried to screw a driver out of money and contract, there wouldn't be a fight to have  :rofl:

 

Unless we don't have the full story on this, I cannot believe how nonchalant Sauber appear to be over this all. If I was that teams PR I'd be trying to apologies to the fans, not make out that VDG is the bad guy here. I honestly expect kaltenborn to step down this year over this.

 

Ridiculous stance they've taken. To be fair though that's standard practice for F1 teams and does provide a lot of comedy.

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tuckeratlarge

I know F1 is a business and not a sport. Christian Horner et al, need to put their whining and bitching energy into catching up with Mercedes. Shoes on the other foot now and like the petulant children who currently work in F1 he doesn't like it. Why don't RedBull with all their money build their own engine, like Mercedes and Ferrari.

 

Also, I would like to see an F1 championship in which only the FIA make the rules. Not the teams, certainly not FOM.

 

How can you have a "sport" in which the top teams make the rules. Nobody ever agrees. Just have the FIA make all the rules. Then if you don't like the rules, don't play the game.

 

I also find it strange that tracks have to pay Bernie to put on a race, usually at a loss, and then the TV people have to pay Bernie to show it.

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Skiver

I know F1 is a business and not a sport. Christian Horner et al, need to put their whining and bitching energy into catching up with Mercedes. Shoes on the other foot now and like the petulant children who currently work in F1 he doesn't like it. Why don't RedBull with all their money build their own engine, like Mercedes and Ferrari.

 

Also, I would like to see an F1 championship in which only the FIA make the rules. Not the teams, certainly not FOM.

 

How can you have a "sport" in which the top teams make the rules. Nobody ever agrees. Just have the FIA make all the rules. Then if you don't like the rules, don't play the game.

 

I also find it strange that tracks have to pay Bernie to put on a race, usually at a loss, and then the TV people have to pay Bernie to show it.

 

CVC paid a lot of money for the rights to F1, got to make it back somehow :(

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Chasethebase
 

Still faster than McLaren Honda.

Surprised it isn't "Salt" flavour.

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Chasethebase

Alonso cleared to fly to Malaysia

(Reuters) - McLaren's Fernando Alonso has been cleared to travel to Malaysia for the second race of the Formula One season after passing medical tests in England, Spanish media reported on Sunday.

Marca and AS sports newspapers, quoting sources close to the driver, said the double world champion had short and long-term memory and reflex checks in Cambridge.

There was no immediate comment from McLaren.

The driver, who suffered concussion after crashing in testing in Barcelona last month, missed the March 15 Australian season-opener and must still pass FIA tests at the Sepang circuit on Thursday before being able to race.

His manager has said those should be a formality.

Source: Reuters

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Noir Angel

CVC paid a lot of money for the rights to F1, got to make it back somehow :(

 

Quite frankly I think the way F1 is ran is a complete joke. The venues that host the events often operate at a loss, and the teams only receive a small chunk of the commercial pot, all so Bernie and the rights holder can line their pockets. It creates a system where the people the contribute the least to the sport get the most out of it, I can fully see why it peeves so many of the teams and venues.

 

I don't blame the Germans for refusing to operate at a loss, nor would I blame any other circuit owners for pulling their events for the same reason. I really hope Bernie pops his clogs or retires soon, he's a greedy individual.

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MightyJordan

The-cost-of-an-F1-car1-1160x1630.jpg

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      Driver changes
      Kevin Magnussen turned down an offer to stay with Renault and instead signed a deal with Haas to drive alongside Romain Grosjean. As a result of the agreement with Magnussen and the team's decision to take up an option on Grosjean, Esteban Gutiérrez's contract with the team was not renewed. Gutiérrez later moved to the Formula E championship. Williams driver Felipe Massa retired from Formula One at the end of the 2016 season after fourteen years in the sport.[19][20] Massa's seat is due to be taken by 2016 European Formula 3 Championship winner Lance Stroll. Esteban Ocon reached an agreement to move from MRT to Force India and is scheduled to fill the seat left vacant by Nico Hülkenberg's departure to Renault. Reigning champion and Mercedes driver Nico Rosberg retired from the sport at the end of the 2016 season. 2015 GP2 Series champion Stoffel Vandoorne signed a contract with McLaren as a full-time driver. Vandoorne has previously competed in one race for the team, the 2016 Bahrain Grand Prix, in which he substituted for the injured Fernando Alonso while serving as the team's reserve driver. He is scheduled to replace Jenson Button, who is taking a sabbatical from racing in 2017 while staying on with the team as a reserve driver.  
      Calendar changes
      The Chinese and Bahrain Grands Prix swapped places in the schedule for the 2017 season. The Baku event was renamed, becoming the first Azerbaijan Grand Prix. The previous race at the Baku Street Circuit ran under the European Grand Prix title in 2016. The date of the Baku race was changed to avoid conflicting with the 24 Hours of Le Mans, which had been a source of controversy at the 2016 European Grand Prix. The German Grand Prix was removed from the calendar after the owners of the Hockenheimring and Nürburgring circuits were unable to agree to commercial terms with Formula One Management. The Autodromo Enzo e Dino Ferrari—more commonly known as the Imola circuit—signed an agreement with Bernie Ecclestone to host a Grand Prix from 2017; however, the agreement had to be ratified by the Italian motorsport federation in order for the event to take place, and it was omitted from the calendar. The Imola circuit previously hosted the Italian Grand Prix in 1980 and the San Marino Grand Prix from 1981 to 2006.  
      General changes
      In September 2016, Liberty Media purchased a minority stake in the sport from CVC Capital Partners ahead of a hoped-for full buyout in time for the 2017 season. As part of the deal, the sport adopted a model similar to that used by the US National Football League and Major League Baseball, with teams entitled to purchase a stake in the sport.  
      Technical regulations
      The technical regulations governing bodywork design were revised for 2017, with the objective of improving lap times by four to five seconds over the 2016 generation of cars.[34] These changes include:[35] An increase of the width of the front wing to 1,800 mm (70.9 in). Lowering the rear wing by 150 mm (5.9 in) and moving its position back by 200 mm (7.9 in). The leading edge of the barge boards being brought forward to allow teams more freedom in controlling airflow. An increase of the width of the front and rear tyres to allow cars to generate more mechanical grip. The minimum weight of the car including the driver being raised by 20 kg to 722 kg, with teams allowed to use 105 kg of fuel to account for the increase in minimum weight. The token system used to regulate power unit development—where the power unit was divided into individual areas, and each area assigned a points value with development of these areas deducting points from a manufacturer's overall points quota—will be abandoned. Restrictions are to be placed on the dimensions, weight and the materials used to build each individual component of the power unit. Teams are restricted to four power units per season regardless of the number of Grands Prix in the season. Previous seasons had included a provision for a fifth power unit if the number of Grands Prix in a season exceeded twenty; from 2017, this provision is to be abandoned. The cost of a power unit supply is reduced by €1 million in 2017 ahead of a further reduction in 2018. Cameras will no longer be permitted to be mounted on stalks, located on the nose of the car.  
      Sporting regulations
      Under rules introduced in 2015, grid penalties for exceeding a driver's quota of power unit components carried over from one race to the next if the penalty could not be fully served when issued. When this carry-over system was abandoned, teams could build up a reserve of spare components by introducing several at once while only serving a single grid penalty. From 2017, teams will only be able to use one new component over their quota per race, with any additional components incurring further penalties. This change prevents teams from "stockpiling" spare power unit components. Power unit suppliers will have an "obligation to supply", mandating that they supply power units to any team, should a team end up without an agreement. The rule was introduced following the breakdown in the relationship between Renault and their customer teams Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso at the end of the 2015 season that left both teams in limbo until deals could be arranged. In the event that a race is declared wet and must start behind the safety car, the grid will follow normal starting procedures once conditions are declared satisfactory for racing. Drivers will line up on the grid for a standing start once the safety car pulls into pit lane, although any laps completed behind the safety car will count towards the total race distance.  
       
      Topic under construction...
      You can find last season's discussion here