Has Windows 10 redeemed Microsoft?

[EdLuX]

Right, that must be it. Windows 8 didn't fail because of metro, and Windows phone isn't unpopular because of metro. It's just a coincidence that both products have major metro integration and have flopped.

The reason Windows Phone isn't more popular has nothing to do with it's user interface. The reason is that almost everyone is already using an android or iOS powered system.

MS just has missed the bus to the mobile mass market.

[Yogurth]

The reason Windows Phone isn't more popular has nothing to do with it's user interface. The reason is that almost everyone is already using an android or iOS powered system.

MS just has missed the bus to the mobile mass market.

 

That is only one of multiple reasons why Windows Phone never took off and probably never will. IMHO reasons for that were these in no particular order: OS licensing (when first released Windows Phone was not free), OS restrictions for phone vendors unlike with Android, When released it was a sad excuse for OS (lacking multitasking, file system even basic functions like copy/paste), Microsoft ditched customers that were willing to support the OS from the start after only one major OS version, perceived connection with Windows 8, which we all know how it fared, extremely slow development cycle for mobile market, lack of true customization of the OS itself.....etc

[Yogurth]

And to get back on topic, do I think Microsoft redeemed themselves...no I do not, I believe that MS made things worse for their customers and themselves with the release of Windows 10. These few pictures/collages will explain it better than me..

Functionality and ease of use:

 

 

Style and looks:

 

 

Respect to customers:

[Son_Of_Dad]

Image 1 is how it feels to use, image 2 sums up the UI

[EdLuX]

And to get back on topic, do I think Microsoft redeemed themselves...no I do not, []

Windows 10: The first Windows version that is not being judged on what it is, but on what one hopes it will become...

[Ian W]

And to get back on topic, do I think Microsoft redeemed themselves...no I do not, I believe that MS made things worse for their customers and themselves with the release of Windows 10. These few pictures/collages will explain it better than me..

Respect to customers:

I am not going to comment on the other images, but I will say that there are benefits to these potentially invasive features. Moreover, if Microsoft had no respect for its consumers, I doubt very highly that there would be any options to disable any of the features listed.

Windows 10: The first Windows version that is not being judged on what it is, but on what one hopes it will become...

It is unlikely, with numbers exceeding 25 million, that the operating system is primarily judged in this manner. I am certain that many users like at least some of its features.

[jaffar]

It seems that ordinary people don't care much about the negative criticism

http://www.winbeta.org/news/there-are-now-over-50-million-people-using-windows-10-worldwide

[DavidM]

I am not going to comment on the other images, but I will say that there are benefits to these potentially invasive features. Moreover, if Microsoft had no respect for its consumers, I doubt very highly that there would be any options to disable any of the features listed.

It is unlikely, with numbers exceeding 25 million, that the operating system is primarily judged in this manner. I am certain that many users like at least some of its features.

No, if they had respect for their customers these features would be OPT-IN, not opt out. Most people don't understand they have to not use express settings, and Microsoft knows this, look at how virus and malware spread, by people just clicking next. Microsoft has taken advantage of this with their express settings and the way they make it seem like you have to have a Microsoft email address to sign-in.

It seems that ordinary people don't care much about the negative criticism

http://www.winbeta.org/news/there-are-now-over-50-million-people-using-windows-10-worldwide

No, they bumped Win 10 to "recommended" from "optional", and now everyone who doesn't want 10 has to actually stop it unless they turn off recommended updates, another way Microsoft has used the knowledge they gained from their user base. People don't want to know, they want to push power and be using Facebook, playing Candy Something-or-another, and checking their email.

If people don't bitch and complain, it will just continue to get worse...

[Son_Of_Dad]

It seems that ordinary people don't care much about the negative criticism

http://www.winbeta.org/news/there-are-now-over-50-million-people-using-windows-10-worldwide

Again the OS success can't be based on free updates a percentage of which are people testing on secondary drives. Let's see how many purchase Windows 10 tablets and phones due to love of the experience.

[adrynalyne]

No, if they had respect for their customers these features would be OPT-IN, not opt out. Most people don't understand they have to not use express settings, and Microsoft knows this, look at how virus and malware spread, by people just clicking next. Microsoft has taken advantage of this with their express settings and the way they make it seem like you have to have a Microsoft email address to sign-in.

No, they bumped Win 10 to "recommended" from "optional", and now everyone who doesn't want 10 has to actually stop it unless they turn off recommended updates, another way Microsoft has used the knowledge they gained from their user base. People don't want to know, they want to push power and be using Facebook, playing Candy Something-or-another, and checking their email.

If people don't bitch and complain, it will just continue to get worse...

The Customer Experience Improvement Program that is basically what Windows 10 is doing has been around for over a decade and has never once been opt-in.

Yet people just now start complaining about it? Much ado about nothing.

[adrynalyne]

Again the OS success can't be based on free updates a percentage of which are people testing on secondary drives. Let's see how many purchase Windows 10 tablets and phones due to love of the experience.

I seriously doubt any large percentage are testing it on secondary drives when for most, the eligible OS is on the main one.  Remember, you said free updates, not retail purchases.

[Son_Of_Dad]

I seriously doubt any large percentage are testing it on secondary drives when for most, the eligible OS is on the main one.  Remember, you said free updates, not retail purchases.

You can seriously doubt all you want it isn't conclusive proof. And I do know what I said, I don't know what your point is.

[adrynalyne]

You can seriously doubt all you want it isn't conclusive proof. And I do know what I said, I don't know what your point is.

You harp on me for inconclusive proof while spouting assumptions yourself?

Ironic.

Look at this logically. Insiders are not the majority downloading rtm. Why you might ask? Well, I am glad you did. Because most Insiders had rtm 2 weeks prior to GA, and the program was closed off to new joins.

The ONLY way to get it free is via eligible upgrade and that is going to be mostly people using a primary OS, not a secondary test drive.  So your claim makes little sense.

[DavidM]

The Customer Experience Improvement Program that is basically what Windows 10 is doing has been around for over a decade and has never once been opt-in.

Yet people just now start complaining about it? Much ado about nothing.

No, it's not and you know it, it's not even close to the same thing. The CEIP, never collected the amount of personalized data they are collecting now. No one had an email account tied to Windows 7, your searches weren't being collected from within the OS, you voice and location weren't being collected, the sheer amount of data your OS knows about your life is scary, and now Microsoft has that information as well. What is their policy on who gets that data? Will I be allowed to completely opt out if they decide the want to share or sell it to Amazon? or Porn Hub?

Can you tell me that the information that has been collected so far is completely anonamized and stored securely in something strong that a plain text file? No, sorry you can't because you have no idea what data is even being collected because they haven't stated exactly what is being collected.

[Son_Of_Dad]

You harp on me for inconclusive proof while spouting assumptions yourself?

Ironic.

Look at this logically. Insiders are not the majority downloading rtm. Why you might ask? Well, I am glad you did. Because most Insiders had rtm 2 weeks prior to GA, and the program was closed off to new joins.

The ONLY way to get it free is via eligible upgrade and that is going to be mostly people using a primary OS, not a secondary test drive.  So your claim makes little sense.

You complain about my statements but make your own over and over. "Ironic"

There are multiple ways to have a secondary HDD run an "eligible upgrade" for anyone with 1/2 a brain. So your statement is invalid.

[adrynalyne]

No, it's not and you know it, it's not even close to the same thing. The CEIP, never collected the amount of personalized data they are collecting now. No one had an email account tied to Windows 7, your searches weren't being collected from within the OS, you voice and location weren't being collected, the sheer amount of data your OS knows about your life is scary, and now Microsoft has that information as well. What is their policy on who gets that data? Will I be allowed to completely opt out if they decide the want to share or sell it to Amazon? or Porn Hub?

Can you tell me that the information that has been collected so far is completely anonamized and stored securely in something strong that a plain text file? No, sorry you can't because you have no idea what data is even being collected because they haven't stated exactly what is being collected.

Prove that it didn't.  You have no idea what is being collected past what you have read.

You complain about my statements but make your own over and over. "Ironic"

There are multiple ways to have a secondary HDD run an "eligible upgrade" for anyone with 1/2 a brain. So your statement is invalid.

For a geek.

Most consumers are not. So no, your statement is invalid. Try think beyond yourself for a moment. Most consumers do not build their own machines or buy retail versions of Windows. Did you not realize this?

[7Dash8]

You can seriously doubt all you want it isn't conclusive proof. And I do know what I said, I don't know what your point is.

Don't worry, those of us who can comprehend simple logic understand that:

Free upgrade + a sly "important" update that puts a big "Get Windows 10 - reserve your copy" prompt in your system tray and on your Windows Update screen + huge existing user base + curiosity = a LOT of installs.

As you say, the proof will be in the pudding - not the number of installs, but how many people actually stick with Windows 10 and furthermore, buy into the MS app environment.

[adrynalyne]

Don't worry, those of us who can comprehend simple logic understand that:

Free upgrade + a sly "important" update that puts a big "Get Windows 10 - reserve your copy" prompt in your system tray and on your Windows Update screen + huge existing user base + curiosity = a LOT of installs.

As you say, the proof will be in the pudding - not the number of installs, but how many people actually stick with Windows 10 and furthermore, buy into the MS app environment.

For someone who comprehended so well, you missed where he said secondary installs.

[DavidM]

Prove that it didn't.  You have no idea what is being collected past what you have read.

Yet, you do? I'm pretty sure since they didn't record voice searches (not available in Win7), or tied an email account to my login (might be possible but was never ask for in Win 7), or tie my email to my software purchases (store not available in Win7), so how could they have even collected the same amount of data?

People should be getting tired of having to opt-out of data collection, but they only want the shiny, they learned nothing from Assange or Snowden. My OS shouldn't be sending ANYTHING to ANYONE unless I allow it, not by some buried switch set to broadcast unless I dig to find it, and then it should be ON or OFF. There should be no ambiguity, no "basic"! If Microsoft wasn't smart enough to listen to the people who screamed at them for Win 8, why would they listen to the quietly transmitted data from my computer about how WIN 10 is not what I want?

[adrynalyne]

Yet, you do? I'm pretty sure since they didn't record voice searches (not available in Win7), or tied an email account to my login (might be possible but was never ask for in Win 7), or tie my email to my software purchases (store not available in Win7), so how could they have even collected the same amount of data?

People should be getting tired of having to opt-out of data collection, but they only want the shiny, they learned nothing from Assange or Snowden. My OS shouldn't be sending ANYTHING to ANYONE unless I allow it, not by some buried switch set to broadcast unless I dig to find it, and then it should be ON or OFF. There should be no ambiguity, no "basic"! If Microsoft wasn't smart enough to listen to the people who screamed at them for Win 8, why would they listen to the quietly transmitted data from my computer about how WIN 10 is not what I want?

Trust me, they did for voice recognition.

Wait, did you think that Cortana was the first time voice recognition came to Windows?

 

[DavidM]

Trust me, they did for voice recognition.

Wait, did you think that Cortana was the first time voice recognition came to Windows?

 

No, but it's the first time it is being packaged for internet searches for the masses, and tied to an email account, and if you are using bing rewards, tied to a real address.

[Ian W]

No, if they had respect for their customers these features would be OPT-IN, not opt out. Most people don't understand they have to not use express settings, and Microsoft knows this, look at how virus and malware spread, by people just clicking next. Microsoft has taken advantage of this with their express settings and the way they make it seem like you have to have a Microsoft email address to sign-in.

I could go on for a while about this, but the express settings state what will happen if this option is selected during installation.

Yet, you do? I'm pretty sure since they didn't record voice searches (not available in Win7)

Erm, starting with Windows 7, it is possible to send speech recognition information (training data) to Microsoft, and this could possibly include voice searches if one searches by voice, though I must admit that I am not certain. Either way, the feature can send speech information, but it is entirely optional, just as using the voice capabilities of Cortana is.

[tompkin]

The reason Windows Phone isn't more popular has nothing to do with it's user interface. The reason is that almost everyone is already using an android or iOS powered system.

MS just has missed the bus to the mobile mass market.

I think this is true.
Let's say that Windows 10 desktop has a carry-over effect of drawing people to Windows Phone. They will immediately hate it. Why? Because they are already entrenched in the other ecosystems (Apple or Android). None of their passwords will work, all their pictures will be uploaded to a different place, in short it will be a nightmare for the average user.

 

[adrynalyne]

No, but it's the first time it is being packaged for internet searches for the masses, and tied to an email account, and if you are using bing rewards, tied to a real address.

Moving goalposts?

Your initial comment to me was voice recordings were not sent to MS before now, and that is false.  Why didn't you cry foul with Windows 7, 8, and 8.1?

 

[adrynalyne]

I could go on for a while about this, but the express settings state what will happen if this option is selected during installation.

Erm, starting with Windows 7, it is possible to send speech recognition information (training data) to Microsoft, and this could possibly include voice searches if one searches by voice, though I must admit that I am not certain. Either way, the feature can send speech information, but it is entirely optional, just as using the voice capabilities of Cortana is.

People are so upset about express settings, even though express settings has been around for years. Its like they are offended that they have to think about what they are doing instead of just clicking defaults like mad until their mouse button is broken.

And we wonder why malware is such an issue...