Alec Baldwin 'discharged' prop gun that left cinematographer dead and director hospitalized on 'Rust' movie set

[DocM]

On 27/10/2021 at 19:52, mram said:

>

Guns should always be treated as deadly, yes... but this is a slippery slope.

 

I've used modern and primitive firearms for about 60 years. Also an archer & bowhunter.

 

There's nothing slippery sloapy about it as the consequences are so serious. You are either following proper weapons protocol, assuming anything someone hands you that looks like a real weapon is, or you're an incompetent  fool. This production  had a bumper crop of fools...starting at the top. 

 

On 27/10/2021 at 19:52, mram said:

There is no reason for any live ammunition anywhere near a gun on an acting environment.  Zero.

 

Totally 1000% agree. 

 

On 27/10/2021 at 19:52, mram said:

I honestly think the real answer here is for some entrepeneur to make a fake-gun company that makes this impossible to happen and looks and acts almost like the real thing.  Who needs CGI.  Gets rid of guns entirely.

 

These already exist, some can be bought on Amazon, and many are dead ringers for the real thing.  $50 - $1,000+ depending on the weapon. For a Colt .45 revolver replica, simulating what Baldwin used, under $100. More if it has extra features. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by DocM

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

On 28/10/2021 at 01:08, warwagon said:

You mean like this?

 

LOL, exactly like that - and a few others.  And I've no issue with them - comedy is often comprised of passing comment on current events.  If someone has such an issue with the content of SNL... don't watch SNL!?  If someone is so full of self-pity that they feel personally targeted by a comedy skit - well they need help!

[tmorris1]

On 27/10/2021 at 18:22, Dick Montage said:

Well the right-wing pundits have already started making jokes about it - so swings and roundabouts really!

Hypocrisy and pukes on both sides

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

On 28/10/2021 at 16:09, tmorris1 said:

Hypocrisy and pukes on both sides

Humour is subjective, but current affairs humour tends to usually involve a bias.  I don't see it as hypocrisy but rather patronising their audience.  Don't get upset by it.

[tmorris1]

On 28/10/2021 at 10:49, Dick Montage said:

Humour is subjective, but current affairs humour tends to usually involve a bias.  I don't see it as hypocrisy but rather patronising their audience.  Don't get upset by it.

I don't get upset since I don't watch it.  The hypocrisy comes when they cut down the other side for doing something that they just got done doing themselves.

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

On 28/10/2021 at 17:02, tmorris1 said:

I don't get upset since I don't watch it.  The hypocrisy comes when they cut down the other side for doing something that they just got done doing themselves.

But you don't watch it - so you are commenting without any context or real awareness?

[PeterTHX]

On 27/10/2021 at 10:16, FloatingFatMan said:

Age has nothing to do with it.  If he's anti-gun and has no gun experience, why would he be expected to know proper gun protocol without guidance?I

Baldwin has been on multiple films with firearms, and fired them, starting right off with The Hunt For Red October (when he kills the Russian secret agent trying to blow up a nuclear missile).

So he has at least 30 years of experience, he should have known what to do.

[FloatingFatMan]

On 28/10/2021 at 18:12, PeterTHX said:

Baldwin has been on multiple films with firearms, and fired them, starting right off with The Hunt For Red October (when he kills the Russian secret agent trying to blow up a nuclear missile).

So he has at least 30 years of experience, he should have known what to do.

I would point out my usage of the word IF in my post.  It's an important word that often comes in handy.  I suggest you look it up.

 

[tmorris1]

On 28/10/2021 at 11:29, Dick Montage said:

But you don't watch it - so you are commenting without any context or real awareness?

And here you are, right?  I can comment on what I please.  What do you disagree with?

[FloatingFatMan]

On 28/10/2021 at 21:11, tmorris1 said:

And here you are, right?  I can comment on what I please.  What do you disagree with?

If you're criticizing something without having seen it, then your critique is based on prejudice rather than fact, and will rightly be dismissed by everyone except yourself...

 

[tmorris1]

On 28/10/2021 at 15:28, FloatingFatMan said:

If you're criticizing something without having seen it, then your critique is based on prejudice rather than fact, and will rightly be dismissed by everyone except yourself...

 

Thanks for telling me how everything works in the world.  What facts did I get wrong and what prejudice did I base my statement on?

[Gotenks98]

On 25/10/2021 at 13:00, Steven P. said:

Or, the assistant director was known to ignore safety on film sets.. he was the one who handed Alec the gun and has a history and complaints against him for this sort of behavior.

Why can't it be both? He might be a Maga fan

[techbeck]

On 29/10/2021 at 06:40, Gotenks98 said:

Why can't it be both? He might be a Maga fan

You are mixing fact with fiction at this point.  There is no evidence to point to that.   And there was nothing political about his previous incidents. The guy is just a moron that shouldn't be allowed to work in the industry again. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by techbeck

[+primortal Subscriber²]

 

[+Nik Louch Subscriber²]

On 28/10/2021 at 21:11, tmorris1 said:

And here you are, right?  I can comment on what I please.  What do you disagree with?

And here I am, right!

 

I watch both SNL and Norm MacDonald.  I find humour in both left and right leading satire.  I don't always agree with either camp.  But yes - I am here, and moreover I am commenting with having actually watched the things I am commenting on.

 

You can comment on what you please - I never said otherwise, nobody did... Why do you feel so persecuted?

 

However, stating you "don't watch" SNL and then comment upon its content and how they "always feel the need to tell everyone else how to live there (sic) lives and how to think" - it says more of you and this right-leaning persecution complex.  As did your (I assume rhetorical?) question, which I still answered to show that yes, political satire exists both sides of the spectrum.  Were you attempting to suggest it didn't?  Were you trying to make a point?

 

So my factual answers don't fit your narrative.  Is that what YOU disagree with?

[+Warwagon MVC]

On 29/10/2021 at 13:58, primortal said:

 

As opposed to happy?

[neufuse Veteran]

On 29/10/2021 at 16:21, warwagon said:

As opposed to happy?

Yeah, I don't get articles like that... what else would you expect them to be dancing around smiling?...

[+Warwagon MVC]

On 29/10/2021 at 15:40, neufuse said:

Yeah, I don't get articles like that... what else would you expect them to be dancing around smiling?...

Ya, the fact her lawyers had to tell us she was devastated ... does not make her look as good as they were attempting to do. 

[DocM]

The subject has come up about replicas, and that the gun used was a Pietta Colt .45, which is a fully functional replica if the original Colt 1873  Single Action revolver. 

 

Some versions of the Colt 1873 SA are known as the Colt Peacemaker, often used by western  gunfighters so often seen in movies. 

 

Pietta is one of two Italian replica firearms makers, the other being Uberti. They make weapons ranging from basic models to high end, from ancient  pistols on up. I have a few myself. Both make Colt 1873 SA's. Both are very popular in the US. 

 

Also available are non-function replicas of the Colt 1873 SA. One of these is made by Denix of Spain, which has a working action but takes dummy bullets which accept single use caps to make noise & smoke - a  grown-up's cap gun. Not as finely finished.

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by DocM

[tmorris1]

On 29/10/2021 at 14:46, Dick Montage said:

And here I am, right!

 

I watch both SNL and Norm MacDonald.  I find humour in both left and right leading satire.  I don't always agree with either camp.  But yes - I am here, and moreover I am commenting with having actually watched the things I am commenting on.

 

You can comment on what you please - I never said otherwise, nobody did... Why do you feel so persecuted?

 

However, stating you "don't watch" SNL and then comment upon its content and how they "always feel the need to tell everyone else how to live there (sic) lives and how to think" - it says more of you and this right-leaning persecution complex.  As did your (I assume rhetorical?) question, which I still answered to show that yes, political satire exists both sides of the spectrum.  Were you attempting to suggest it didn't?  Were you trying to make a point?

 

So my factual answers don't fit your narrative.  Is that what YOU disagree with?

You make a lot of generalizations and assumptions for someone so hung up on facts?

 

I don't have a narrative, I don't feel persecuted, I don't have a right leaning persecution complex, I never even mentioned SNL?  In fact I never really disagreed with anything you said, I simply pointed out why I used the word hypocrisy.  What did I say that was right leaning?

 

I don't watch SNL or any late night TV, but I have seen some the clips I was commenting about in other places.  Who hasn't they are played on the news in the morning?

[SidVicious]

 

[+Warwagon MVC]

I was thinking, if the correct way to test your  "Cold gun" on that set was to point it at the 24 year old armorer and pull the trigger instead of pointing it to the ground (they didn't even do that), you can bet that every gun on that set would have been the safest in the film industry. Her appearance oozes Woke, Pouty entitled Millennial, she probably only cared about herself, Now I'm obviously, not serious about pointing guns at her, but if makes ya think!

[xrobwx71]

On 28/10/2021 at 12:12, PeterTHX said:

Baldwin has been on multiple films with firearms, and fired them, starting right off with The Hunt For Red October (when he kills the Russian secret agent trying to blow up a nuclear missile).

So he has at least 30 years of experience, he should have known what to do.

Beautiful  point. Notice in response, we got tripped up on the word if. 

[DocM]

On 04/11/2021 at 10:03, warwagon said:

I was thinking, if the correct way to test your  "Cold gun" on that set was to point it at the 24 year old armorer and pull the trigger instead of pointing it to the ground (they didn't even do that), you can bet that every gun on that set would have been the safest in the film industry.

 

Anything that makes those involved think before acting  would have been better than what they did. 

 

Quote

Her appearance oozes Woke, Pouty entitled Millennial, she probably only cared about herself, Now I'm obviously, not serious about pointing guns at her, but if makes ya think!

 

Clearly not a chip off the old block, her dad Thell being a pro in the world of armorers. 

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/alec-baldwin-film-rust-hired-inexperienced-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-before-halyna-hutchins-shooting

Quote

 

There were previous concerns raised about the 24-year-old armorer who was hired on Alec Baldwin’s film Rust, with two production sources telling The Daily Beast that filming on the set of her last movie was briefly stopped after she allegedly gave a gun to an 11-year-old actress without checking it properly.

 

😵 😡 W-T-A-F ??

 

An 11 year old who's been through hunting/firearms safety, been around guns since birth and well supervised is one thing. A child actress is very likely a whole other thing.

 

Quote

“She was a bit careless with the guns, waving it around every now and again,” said a source, who worked alongside armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed on the upcoming Nicolas Cage film, The Old Way. “There were a couple times she was loading the blanks and doing it in a fashion that we thought was unsafe.”

>

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by DocM

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 04/11/2021 at 17:12, DocM said:

“She was a bit careless with the guns, waving it around every now and again,” said a source, who worked alongside armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed on the upcoming Nicolas Cage film, The Old Way. “There were a couple times she was loading the blanks and doing it in a fashion that we thought was unsafe.”

You'll find these types in every profession, thinking they are more important than the actual task at hand. It's a shame the people around her and who saw these things (as it appears she was well known for being careless) didn't do more to get a person like that fired or made to question her actions in a meaningful way, instead she learned the hard way.