Alec Baldwin 'discharged' prop gun that left cinematographer dead and director hospitalized on 'Rust' movie set

[hagjohn]

On 20/04/2023 at 16:33, Xenon said:

No real surprise there. This was politized to hell. 

The charges against the armorer were also dropped. I'm curious as to why the charges are dropped (for the both of them), after charging both of them.

[jamietn]

The only shooting conservatives face a rats ass about... 

[DocM]

Independent tests concluded there was no way it went off except by a trigger pull. NM we'll ask a grand jury to reinstate the charges.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/prosecutors-aim-recharge-alec-baldwin-with-involuntary-manslaughter-nbc-news-2023-10-17/

 

• Quote

  Oct 17 (Reuters) - New Mexico prosecutors on Tuesday said they intended to recharge actor Alec Baldwin with involuntary manslaughter for the fatal shooting of "Rust" cinematographer Halyna Hutchins in 2021.

  Baldwin's case will be brought before a grand jury in mid-November, special prosecutor Kari Morrissey said.

  The move followed results of an independent forensic test that found Baldwin had to have pulled the trigger of a revolver he was rehearsing with for it to fire the live round that killed Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza.

   

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 18/10/2023 at 05:34, DocM said:

Independent tests concluded there was no way it went off except by a trigger pull. NM we'll ask a grand jury to reinstate the charges.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/prosecutors-aim-recharge-alec-baldwin-with-involuntary-manslaughter-nbc-news-2023-10-17/

 

•  

Having lied about this could do him in. He could have said he fired but expected a blank, like any actor would expect.

[+jamwheat Subscriber²]

On 18/10/2023 at 06:07, Steven P. said:

Having lied about this could do him in. He could have said he fired but expected a blank, like any actor would expect.

Thing is, he has been working with guns in movies for a LONG time.  He should know you ALWAYS check the weapon each and every time you grab one.  NO exceptions.  I believe I have read a few times that it is mandatory for the actor to also check the weapon before use to be sure it is safe.  Plus, you are never to actually aim it AT anyone.  Since he seems to have violated all that, nail him.  He is "acting" like he is not responsible for his actions, so let him pay the price.

[Michael Scrip]

Did we ever figure out why there was live ammunition on an active movie set that used real guns?

[+primortal Subscriber²]

On 18/10/2023 at 09:34, Michael Scrip said:

Did we ever figure out why there was live ammunition on an active movie set that used real guns?

That's the biggest question of them all.   Though it was reported that the armorer was "impaired" at the time, https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-news/rust-armorer-hungover-marijuana-accident-prosecutors-1234771710/

[FloatingFatMan]

On 18/10/2023 at 14:46, primortal said:

That's the biggest question of them all.   Though it was reported that the armorer was "impaired" at the time, https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-news/rust-armorer-hungover-marijuana-accident-prosecutors-1234771710/

Even if that was the case, it's a movie set... Why are there ANY live rounds there, period?  

[DocM]

On 18/10/2023 at 11:37, FloatingFatMan said:

Even if that was the case, it's a movie set... Why are there ANY live rounds there, period?  

One of the first things you are taught in a firearm safety class is to check any firearm you pick up. 

The producers allowed real firearms and live ammo on the set. Some staffers were target practicing with them between scenes, a recipe for disaster. Even if he weren't one of the producers, that should have caused him to be even more careful when handling one of the firearms. 

[Dick Montage]

On 18/10/2023 at 19:06, DocM said:

One of the first things you are taught in a firearm safety class is to check any firearm you pick up. 

I'm an idiot.  Like seriously, I'm one inch away from needing a small Hispanic person to help me put my shoes and socks on without setting fire to my feet somehow.

And yet, even with a toy gun that shoots plastic pellets, I know enough to never point it at someone, my finger naturally rests along the barrel and not the trigger, and when picking one up to check it first.  With a real firearm - fair play, I can disassemble an SA-80, clean it and rebuild it, and was taught range safety, but how is "don't point a gun at a person" not just immediate common-sense?

[DocM]

On 18/10/2023 at 14:40, Dick Montage said:

I'm an idiot.  Like seriously, I'm one inch away from needing a small Hispanic person to help me put my shoes and socks on without setting fire to my feet somehow.

And yet, even with a toy gun that shoots plastic pellets, I know enough to never point it at someone, my finger naturally rests along the barrel and not the trigger, and when picking one up to check it first.  With a real firearm - fair play, I can disassemble an SA-80, clean it and rebuild it, and was taught range safety, but how is "don't point a gun at a person" not just immediate common-sense?

Exactly. 

In these days of remote operated cameras, and the availability of optical grade bulletproof glass or transparent aluminum (aluminum oxynitride sheets) they had  neither. Even in that case, the procedure is to aim away from the camera not at it.  Not to mention gun simulants which produce both a bang and a flash for the effects people to do0 their thing with.

The whole production was snake bit

[+primortal Subscriber²]

 

[DocM]

Grand Jury indicts Alec Baldwin; negligent homicide

A new forensics report seems to be the difference

 

 

[robertwnielsen]

On 18/10/2023 at 13:40, Dick Montage said:

I'm an idiot.  Like seriously, I'm one inch away from needing a small Hispanic person to help me put my shoes and socks on without setting fire to my feet somehow.

And yet, even with a toy gun that shoots plastic pellets, I know enough to never point it at someone, my finger naturally rests along the barrel and not the trigger, and when picking one up to check it first.  With a real firearm - fair play, I can disassemble an SA-80, clean it and rebuild it, and was taught range safety, but how is "don't point a gun at a person" not just immediate common-sense?

'Common-sense,' it seems, is DEAD. 

[Michael Scrip]

It's been a while since I asked this... have we finally figured out why there was live ammunition on a movie set?!?!?

Who was responsible for that?  Is that also part of the investigation and trial?

I understand the charges against the guy who actually pulled the trigger.  But it seems like there were multiple failures from several people on the movie set.

🤔

[DocM]

On 19/01/2024 at 19:28, Michael Scrip said:

It's been a while since I asked this... have we finally figured out why there was live ammunition on a movie set?!?!?

The props were fully functional replicas produced in Italy, and some idiots on the set decided to use them for target practice during their breaks. It's my feeling that that is where something went wrong, and one of the guns was not unloaded before it was used in the scene.

On 19/01/2024 at 19:28, Michael Scrip said:

Who was responsible for that?  Is that also part of the investigation and trial?

 

The armorer and the producer. The armorer was on her first job as such and is under charge. The producer was Alec Baldwin. The producer pays for the production, and as such can set the rules. There was no hiding that Target practice, and he should have taken action to end it.

 

On 19/01/2024 at 19:28, Michael Scrip said:

I understand the charges against the guy who actually pulled the trigger.  But it seems like there were multiple failures from several people on the movie set.

🤔

As noted above, he's the producer - the money man. He has been on numerous sets were firearm safety was enforced including The Hunt for Red October. If you remember, in that movie Baldwin took part in an on-screen gun fight during which proper procedures would have been followed and he should have remembered them. IIRC. he also overruled any extra training for the armorer.

[seta-san]

the biggest problem is that alec baldwin should have treated the gun with seriousness and respect but instead he treated it like a toy.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

So to recap ...

-Baldwin and the "Rust" producers reached a settlement in 2022 with the family of Hutshins in a wrongful death suit.

-David Halls (first assistant director ... received gun from armorer Hannah Gutierrez and handed it to Baldwin) signed a plea agreement for the charge of negligent use of a deadly weapon....

Quote

In addition to six months unsupervised probation, the terms of the sentence include that Halls pay a $500 fine, perform 24 hours of community service, take a fire safety course within 60 days, testify in all hearings involving the shooting and have no contact with co-defendants or witnesses.

ABC News

-Hannah Gutierrez faces trial in February ... charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter and an additional charge of tampering with evidence.  The later of which is because a witness alleges she was hungover and transferred cocaine to another person on the day Hutchins was killed (thus hampering the police investigation).
NBC News

-Alex Baldwin  - charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter (negligent use of a firearm and manslaughter without due caution or circumspection - 4th degree felonies - up to 18 months in prison if found guilty  --- yeah...he isn't serving any prison time). 

Anyway, hopefully this whole tragedy is a wake-up call to the film industry.  Under no circumstances should functional firearms (replicas or the real thing) be allowed on set and/or pointed at others. 

Don't be the Captain in this video...yikes...

 

[DocM]

On 20/01/2024 at 06:03, Jim K said:

Anyway, hopefully this whole tragedy is a wake-up call to the film industry.  Under no circumstances should functional firearms (replicas or the real thing) be allowed on set and/or pointed at others. 

Most of the problem are with independent productions like this one. The budgets are limited so they keep out, and all too often  safety is the first casualty. 

A fully functional Colt 45 replica made in Italy can be had for $600. Of course it's all authentic looking, and it's cheap. Using a non-functional replica and adding things like muzzle flash etc. in post-production cost a lot more than $600.

"Well then", you say, "what about blanks?"

Brandon Lee was killed on the set of The Crow by a blank. A dummy round (used in scenes where you have to show the bullet being loaded) left a piece of projectile in the barrel, which was ejected when a blank was fired in another scene - killing Lee. Armorer did not check the weapon before loading the blanks.

 

[DocM]

 

 

[DocM]

Got a chance to watch some of the testimony in her trial. Just about all the witnesses including OSHA put the blame on the production company (Baldwin), not allowing the armorer to have extra training time with the crew and lack of supervision.

It would not surprise me one bit with this conviction in hand, prosecutors will offer her a lighter sentence to testify against Baldwin then ask for a harsher sentence for him. 

[Steven P. Administrators]

On 07/03/2024 at 06:34, DocM said:

Got a chance to watch some of the testimony in her trial. Just about all the witnesses including OSHA put the blame on the production company (Baldwin), not allowing the armorer to have extra training time with the crew and lack of supervision.

It would not surprise me one bit with this conviction in hand, prosecutors will offer her a lighter sentence to testify against Baldwin then ask for a harsher sentence for him. 

Wasn't it already established that Hannah Gutierrez brought live ammo from her home to the set, and those live rounds ended up in the same box(es) as the dummy ammo over a period of almost two weeks?

She was also the armourer, what am I missing here?

The only thing I've heard that implicates Baldwin so far, is that he "went off script" by pointing (and firing) the gun that he believed was loaded with blanks.

I get that one should always respect gun safety, when it is a gun with live rounds, but clearly Baldwin did not expect the prop to be loaded with live bullets.

Plus, when live ammo is available to just about anybody, these things are going to happen.

[FloatingFatMan]

On 07/03/2024 at 11:17, Steven P. said:

Wasn't it already established that Hannah Gutierrez brought live ammo from her home to the set, and those live rounds ended up in the same box(es) as the dummy ammo over a period of almost two weeks?

She was also the armourer, what am I missing here?

Yup. Seems to me that she's the main one at fault here. Baldwin's involvement seems rather cursory even though he fired the shot.

There are zero circumstances where live rounds should EVER be on a movie set, not these days.  That makes it 100% the fault of the person who brought them on set.

[Tomo]

On 07/03/2024 at 11:17, Steven P. said:

Wasn't it already established that Hannah Gutierrez brought live ammo from her home to the set, and those live rounds ended up in the same box(es) as the dummy ammo over a period of almost two weeks?

She was also the armourer, what am I missing here?

The only thing I've heard that implicates Baldwin so far, is that he "went off script" by pointing (and firing) the gun that he believed was loaded with blanks.

I get that one should always respect gun safety, when it is a gun with live rounds, but clearly Baldwin did not expect the prop to be loaded with live bullets.

Plus, when live ammo is available to just about anybody, these things are going to happen.

It's good practice to check a weapon is clear every time it is handed to yourself or another person and then load the rounds yourself. That way you can be confident you know what state the weapon is in, even if you are expecting dummy or blank rounds you should always follow procedure to make sure you know what is in it.

[DocM]

On 07/03/2024 at 06:17, Steven P. said:

Wasn't it already established that Hannah Gutierrez brought live ammo from her home to the set, and those live rounds ended up in the same box(es) as the dummy ammo over a period of almost two weeks?

 

Multiple people were bringing live rounds on the set, they were using the fully functioning firearms for target practice between scenes. Dumb, and the lead production company did nothing to stop it. That would be El Dorado Productions, which is Alec Baldwin. He was the Executive Producer, the money guy and the decision maker.

The safety issue got so bad one entire camera crew left the set.

On 07/03/2024 at 06:17, Steven P. said:

She was also the armourer, what am I missing here?

 

OSHA (US Occupational Safety and Health Administration) found that she was an employee, with enforcing safety procedures the responsibility of El Dorado Productions. Alec Baldwin. They fined El Dorado $137,000

On 07/03/2024 at 06:17, Steven P. said:

The only thing I've heard that implicates Baldwin so far, is that he "went off script" by pointing (and firing) the gun that he believed was loaded with blanks.

Addressed above, as Executive Eroducer Baldwin was the boss, and his company denied requests by Gutierrez for more gun handling training time. One of the people she wanted to train more was Alec Baldwin.

 

On 07/03/2024 at 06:17, Steven P. said:

I get that one should always respect gun safety, when it is a gun with live rounds, but clearly Baldwin did not expect the prop to be loaded with live bullets.

 

Gun safety rule #1: ALWAYS treat a weapon as if it is loaded with live rounds. 

Baldwin also violated a basic gun handling rule:  place your trigger finger along the side of the weapon, not in the trigger loop, until you are ready to shoot somethin/someone. No exceptions. He has made many films working with firearms, you would think this sunk in.

 

On 07/03/2024 at 06:17, Steven P. said:

Plus, when live ammo is available to just about anybody, these things are going to happen.

 

You can buy ammo in department stores, the issue here is El Dorado allowed the crew to use film production firearms for target practice between scenes or during lunch. Their ammo handling procedures were also ridiculous. 

This should never been allowed, and it was Baldwin's responsibility as EP to set the rules and enforce them.

Edited March 7 by DocM