No High Definition in Revolution: Nintendo

[megamanXplosion]

I always assumed that Samus's ship was constantly scanning the planet. Could be wrong though.

I don't think so. The ships in all of the Metroid games that came after Prime, story-wise, didn't have this capability and the ship didn't lose it during Prime. I don't think it was the ship...

The developers were trying to make the game more immersive and believable. I liked reading reading the log messages of what was going on and scanning various things on the planet to learn about them. The developers didn't force you to read everything though, it was your choice to do so.

Heh, I liked the series better when it wasn't "more immersive and believable." You had to read everything if you wanted to actually beat the game.

You thought the bosses in Metroid and Super Metroid were scary? Maybe you are not a kid anymore and won't easily be scared by the bosses in Metroid Prime. I thought Castlevania was a scary game back in the day. Perhaps it comes with growing up.

I'm not talking about having nightmares or anything, not *that* kind of scared. I'm referring to the times like when Kraid would start coming out of the ground in Super Metroid. The screen would shake, he stood over two-screens tall, and you had to find the weakness yourself (and how to access the weakness, like shooting at his eyes so he opened his mouth) while you had claws trying to stab you or knock you off of your platform into a pit of thorns. It was certainly enough to make the first encounter a palm-sweater. I never experienced that with Prime, the bosses were always very predictable and immediately gave away their weakness - and when they didn't, the scan would give it away because you had to scan them if you wanted 100% completion.

I agree with you on that. I would have rather had to discover the weapons without indicating where they were located. I guess they tried to dumb down the game a bit because finding stuff in Metroid and Super Metroid without using a guide or anything was a pain in the ass. Not so much Super Metriod, because they gave you a map, but finding weapons in Metriod was really painful. I used to draw my own maps on pieces of paper of the game to find out where the hell I was and where I hadn't checked yet.

I did the same thing with Metroid ;)

As for the discussion at hand, I am disappointed by the lack of high-def in Revolution. Saying that they would look the same is wrong, low-def is incredibly blurry in comparison to the crispness of high-def. Play a computer game at 640x480 and then play the same game at 1280?1024 and you'll quickly see the difference (and thats an understatement, considering that 1080i is actually 1920x1080 which would be even more crisp.) I don't think the lack of high-def will make or break the revolution, but it could be just one of the hay-straws which eventually break the horse's back.

[dt]

I think Nintendo should include HD support as an option, but by no means require developers to make games in HD resolution... I think they're being somewhat smart by making development for the Nintendo Revolution somewhat inexpensive and not too difficult so that developers without a Hollywood-level budget can still make excellent games. Hopefully that kind of thing will get a bunch of third-party games on the Nintendo Revolution (as well as other features which will hopefully welcome third-party developers)....

[Danrarbc]

Struggling in what aspect?  If it is profit on their consoles, they aren't struggling.  If is numbers you are referring to, they have sold approximately the same amount as the Xbox has, but no one is complaining about the amount of Xboxes sold.

586057549[/snapback]

Usually I'm the one using this argument :p

Struggling in the sense that in the US, and to a lesser extent Europe, Nintendo has lost a lot of mindshare. They've also been selling a LOT worse than Xbox in those past two years in those regions. Now I don't even hear the kiddie stuff much anymore, Nintendo just isn't in people's minds at all now.

Yes, they're kicking Microsoft butt in Japan and that's keeping them within a million units worldwide. But there's still a struggle for a market in the west.

The original Metroids required the user to figure out problems by themselves. Metroid Prime kept popping up a stupid alert telling you what you need to do next and then take you to the map and then a little while later repeat the process again, and again, and again. And does that even make sense? Apparently someone installed "predator trackers" around the planet before Samus arrived, yeah right.

Metroid Prime was basically just Metroid 1 from the NES with better graphics and watered down gameplay. Why do I have to read everything on every computer monitor and blinking light along the wall and then identify all of the species before I beat the game with 100%? In previous games I done that by getting cool powerups like power bombs, not by identifying weeds that grow out of the ground!

586057933[/snapback]

Then disable the hint system.

PS: Scans weren't required to get 100%, only the items. All 100% of scans did is open an art gallery.

Edited June 14, 2005 by Danrarbc641

[Amnesia]

@Jerry, ... I'm assuming by your slightly sarcastic answer (even though I wasn't) that a plasma isn't the same as HD, you say it's 11% and on the way, I want to see a source on this.

Is this only in the US?

Even in Japan (according to my fianc?) HD tv is hardly know by most people.

I'm not sure as to the UK's percentages as well.

Of course every single type of technology can see a rise but it can also see a fall. I seriously doubt, that many people will go out and buy a HD tv just for their console anyway.

[Laughing-Man]

Struggling in the sense that in the US, and to a lesser extent Europe, Nintendo has lost a lot of mindshare. They've also been selling a LOT worse than Xbox in those past two years in those regions. Now I don't even hear the kiddie stuff much anymore, Nintendo just isn't in people's minds at all now.

Yes, they're kicking Microsoft butt in Japan and that's keeping them within a million units worldwide. But there's still a struggle for a market in the west.

Then disable the hint system.

586061858[/snapback]

Actually according to the end of 2004's statistics, the GameCube wasn't selling that much less then the XBox. This was prior to Resident Evil 4 coming out and that was a hit in Europe (Link), so that could have close the gap a bit since then. Perhaps they just need more killer apps to gain more interest, but I doubt after Zelda:TP we will be seeing any more good GC games:

Europe / PAL

PlayStation 2 - 29.06 million

Xbox - 5.0 million

GameCube - 4.13 million

Edited June 14, 2005 by jmole

[jerry]

@Jerry, ... I'm assuming by your slightly sarcastic answer (even though I wasn't) that a plasma isn't the same as HD, you say it's 11% and on the way, I want to see a source on this.

Is this only in the US?

Even in Japan (according to my fianc?) HD tv is hardly know by most people.

I'm not sure as to the UK's percentages as well.

Of course every single type of technology can see a rise but it can also see a fall. I seriously doubt, that many people will go out and buy a HD tv just for their console anyway.

586062778[/snapback]

I wasnt sarcastic in my reply, I was happy for you. And I wasnt saying that Plasma isnt HD; just that other technologies like DLP TVs are more widely accepted because it is cheaper than Plasmas.

[inthefade]

why are you all getting so worked up about hd or not.... it hasn't been officially confirmed (me thinks), anyway HD isn't going to increase options for game developers, cos too many people are going to be using ordinary tvs for the foreseeable future, and until there is a market where developers can release a game that will only run on a HDTV and turn a profit, then it will just be eye candyfrom here until then..

And honestly when did glorious graphics ever make a shiite game better...??? if anything they serve to enhance a 'good' game's gameplay,... and maybe, just maybe Nintendo are taking us on a different path where he will interact with games in such a extraordinary and unique way, then we may simply not care for 1080p...

i dunno... maybe i am still hoping...

[SonComet]

Eh, my only hope in this whole ordeal is that they are A) lying or B) going to change their minds after such horrible backlash towards their stupid ideas. Someone just needs to smack nintendo in the head for all of this secrecy that they can't afford to have.

I just hope that their precious controller's revolution is more than just rearranged buttons like they did on the gamecube controller (remember how revolutionary they were claiming that would be?). They said that the revolution would hook-up to computer monitors way back when. Now they say they aren't supporting HD, so are they saying that it will connect to computer monitors and only output at 640x480? Or was that just a lie like I hope this is. It just seems to me that nintendo for the last few years has been calling silly little gimmicks innovation and revolutionary.

These gimmicks are only really fun for a short amount of time and cannot replace truly great and innovative ideas in games. Imho real stories, good scripts, great and believable voice acting, an interaction in games add more than the awful production values and waterpack of mario sunshine. It's the general consensus that the best part of that game didn't utilize the waterpack anyways. So maybe if they didn't utilize a gimmick and polished and produced and enticing game with that ungimmicky gameplay it would have been truly classic game. But instead nintendo feeds us games that refuse to evolve with the industry and supply us with silly and momentarily amusing gimmicks. If they are abandoning all the trends of every other company again, it better not be on a gimmick. Metroid and zelda won't always be enough.

[TGD]

HDTVs can display non-HD content, right?

So you all have nothing to moan about. It won't look as good. So what? That's like not buying a PS2 because the XBox has better graphics.

[Shetland]

High resolutions dont make graphics look suddenly better you know, they just eliminate our view of the jagged edges of polys, and where high resolution isnt possible, you have the poor-mans-anti-jaggie, antialiasing.

the only other plus i can see to having higher def is sharpness (Which can also be faked) and screen-space, the hud can be less intrusive etc.

[dt]

All right, it's true taht the better the graphics, the more immersive the game might be. But only to a certain extent. Take a look at the videos for PS3's games... they look AMAZING. Very good graphics. But still, the machine will use a standard controller, having few new ways to interact with the game. Hopefully Nintendo will make something for the Revolution that will allow the player to interact with the game in more ways... besides just pressing buttons.

[Dale]

http://cube.ign.com/articles/625/625423p1.html

sorry if this has been posted before in this thread.

i already sent my email. Although I do not have a high definition television yet. I do have plans to. Nothing will stop me from playing zelda/mario on my revolution though (even if it isn't high definition.)

[username]

i may be wrong here, but doesn't running a game at hdtv resolution really tax the system, in that you will get lower frame rates then that of standard television resolutions? The same as running high resolutions on a PC? So wouldn't making all games HDTV automatically put a big hit on system performance?

[Laughing-Man]

i may be wrong here, but doesn't running a game at hdtv resolution really tax the system, in that you will get lower frame rates then that of standard television resolutions?  The same as running high resolutions on a PC?  So wouldn't making all games HDTV automatically put a big hit on system performance?

586066940[/snapback]

That is correct. Just like increasing the resolution in a PC game, it is more taxing on the system because more data will need to be processed (more calculations, higher resolution textures, more intricate shadows and lighting, etc), a bigger frame buffer will need to be filled, etc., and not to mention the games will require more space on the medium. It will be interesting to see what developers are going to have to do to get a playable 30fps framerate for some of the more complex games.

[username]

That is correct.  Just like increasing the resolution in a PC game, it is more taxing on the system because more data will need to be processed (more calculations, higher resolution textures, more intricate shadows and lighting, etc), a bigger frame buffer will need to be filled, etc., and not to mention the games will require more space on the medium.  It will be interesting to see what developers are going to have to do to get a playable 30fps framerate for some of the more complex games.

586068239[/snapback]

exactly, i know many games that when reviewed, it's commented how they don't run smooth or almost as smooth while in ***** whatever HD mode on current systems. Requiring it in all games when maybe 5% (my guess) have HDTV is not smart as it's hardly the HDTV generation

[SonComet]

exactly, i know many games that when reviewed, it's commented how they don't run smooth or almost as smooth while in ***** whatever HD mode on current systems.  Requiring it in all games when maybe 5% (my guess) have HDTV is not smart as it's hardly the HDTV generation

586068669[/snapback]

Right now 12.5% of American homes have an hdtv, and if the sales of these sets continue to grow at the same rate 30% of of the homes in the US will have them by the time the PS3 launches let alone the Revolution. A year after the consoles launch 50% of homes are expected to house an hdtv. And that's with the current rate of growth. It's probable that the advent of hd-dvds, blu-ray, ps3, and the xbox 360 will spur even greater sales. So I wonder how much % of America owns an xbox or even a ps2. Since 100% of the people in America don't own a videogame console, chances are that a very high percentage of people who buy videogame consoles will own an hdtv by the time these consoles come out.

Granted you and others may not be among that % who owns one as you think that hd is just a bunch of hoopla and will not penetrate the market anytime soon. That's ok, play your games in 480i (which all 3 next-gen consoles support) and be happy with it. But please don't argue for having no hd, as it will deprive what will be nearly the majority of the videogame buying public within 1 year of the launch of the PS3 and Revolution.

Also, I don't think you have to worry so much about framerate issues. Since everygame is designed first and foremost in hd, they will be designed with solid framerates in mind for those resolutions. Though the framerates may not be that much better than this current console generations, they don't really need to be. I haven't played a well designed game this console generation that suffered from any sustained slow-down or framerate issues that made it unplayable. Besides, tremondously raising the polygon count and detail level in games becomes pointless to a certain extent at 640x480i because that resolution won't relsolve the intricate details anyways.

Maybe Nintendo not supporting HD is a sign of weakness on the hardware front. Maybe in 640x480i the Revolution games will look very similar to PS3 and Xbox 360 games running in 480i mode because of the limitations of the resolution. But when you raise the resolution to 720p or 1080i, maybe the Revolution can't produce visuals that compete with the other next-gen consoles. Just a thought, but until I see some hard specs on the Revolution I am gonna guess that it is a hardware limitation that they don't want to admit to.

[Dale]

Right now 12.5% of American homes have an hdtv, and if the sales of these sets continue to grow at the same rate 30% of of the homes in the US will have them by the time the PS3 launches let alone the Revolution.  A year after the consoles launch 50% of homes are expected to house an hdtv.  And that's with the current rate of growth.  It's probable that the advent of hd-dvds, blu-ray, ps3, and the xbox 360 will spur even greater sales.  So I wonder how much % of America owns an xbox or even a ps2.  Since 100% of the people in America don't own a videogame console, chances are that a very high percentage of people who buy videogame consoles will own an hdtv by the time these consoles come out.

Granted you and others may not be among that % who owns one as you think that hd is just a bunch of hoopla and will not penetrate the market anytime soon.  That's ok, play your games in 480i (which all 3 next-gen consoles support) and be happy with it.  But please don't argue for having no hd, as it will deprive what will be nearly the majority of the videogame buying public within 1 year of the launch of the PS3 and Revolution.

Also, I don't think you have to worry so much about framerate issues.  Since everygame is designed first and foremost in hd, they will be designed with solid framerates in mind for those resolutions.  Though the framerates may not be that much better than this current console generations, they don't really need to be.  I haven't played a well designed game this console generation that suffered from any sustained slow-down or framerate issues that made it unplayable.  Besides, tremondously raising the polygon count and detail level in games becomes pointless to a certain extent at 640x480i because that resolution won't relsolve the intricate details anyways.

Maybe Nintendo not supporting HD is a sign of weakness on the hardware front.  Maybe in 640x480i the Revolution games will look very similar to PS3 and Xbox 360 games running in 480i mode because of the limitations of the resolution.  But when you raise the resolution to 720p or 1080i, maybe the Revolution can't produce visuals that compete with the other next-gen consoles.  Just a thought, but until I see some hard specs on the Revolution I am gonna guess that it is a hardware limitation that they don't want to admit to.

586069099[/snapback]

they already admitted that it will not be a supercomputer. Nintendo is famous for the best games in my opinion and thats why i'll be buying a revolution, graphics i care less about. Bring back development for the N64 for all i care! just bring in good games!

[inthefade]

This might interest those wondering they should buy a hd-tv or not, or would like to know a liitle bit more about high res tv...

http://www.dansdata.com/gz029.htm

[SonComet]

This might interest those wondering they should buy a hd-tv or not, or would like to know a liitle bit more about high res tv...

http://www.dansdata.com/gz029.htm

586070706[/snapback]

Seems a bit outdated to me...Informative, but outdated.

[Laughing-Man]

they already admitted that it will not be a supercomputer. Nintendo is famous for the best games in my opinion and thats why i'll be buying a revolution, graphics i care less about. Bring back development for the N64 for all i care! just bring in good games!

586070125[/snapback]

I remember back in the day when video game consoles were video game consoles.

[SonComet]

I remember back in the day when video game consoles were video game consoles.

586070993[/snapback]

Eh, if you think about it they still are just videogame consoles. No matter what microsoft and sony say, they always come out with consoles that are basically just videogame consoles. I mean, no one complained when the sega saturm and sony psx could play cds, so why bother complaining if they can play dvds or blu-ray movies? Its not really that different. Either way they aren't really good enough at their other features to replace a good dedicated cd or dvd player. Also, all this online stuff, hdds, and downloading doesn't make them not consoles either. They are part of the evolution of games towards online gaming and all of the features that that comes with. Just because some people mod their xboxes to do crazy things doesn't mean they aren't gaming consoles. I bet you would be awfully mad if it didn't have an hdd that allowed you to play custom music tracks, download new game updates and content, and save as many games as you want. You can call it a mini-pc if you want, but to me its just an innovative videogame console that expands the way in which I can play games. Videogame consoles haven't really changed. They just gained basic functions that are pretty pointless not to include since a lot of them are pretty simple to implement given the hardware in these consoles. And remember NES stands for nintendo entertainment system, and famicom stood for family computer. They were just videogame consoles, but the naming and marketing of them tried to say that they were more than just videogame consoles. Just like Sony's and MS's marketing does today (even though its not really true).

[emel]

hd or not hd.. they better sell it for $199 at launch.. then I wont complain at all.. :D

[Dale]

I remember back in the day when video game consoles were video game consoles.

586070993[/snapback]

oh yess.. i agree with you so much.

when I was 5 years old it was NEVER about the graphics. It was about the games.

I owned a NES with and my neibor owned a SNES, I don't think i ever recalled comparing the two system's. We played and enjoyed both systems and taken for granted the games. Today i feel that all people care about is graphics.

Don't get me wrong, Graphics are cool, but they are sooo overated. I'll compare the DS to the PSP for example.

When I seen the PSP i was amazed by the graphics, but that was all. Then I looked at the DS, and I seen so much more reasons to get it. People also complain the game lineup for the DS is horrible, I admit, theres nothing "special" about the DS line-up. But when I look at the PSP line-up, I feel like the DS has a better line-up. With few select good games like Polarium, Mario 64. and when I played PSP, the only game that I liked was Mercury. (I want a PSP just for murcury :) ). and the PSP's video playing features are pretty sweet. :p .

But when I play games, Graphics are the farthest from my mind. Sure newer graphics can bring more oportunities. (I cannot picture mercury on a N64/Playstation/DS, they just don't quite have the potential to do such a game (or at least I don't think it can happen)).

another good example is that Nintendo ON video that leaked to the web. When I seen it I was awed. The Nintendo fan boy in me wanted to cry and shout out loud "Nintendo you did it". (but that was before it was confirmed fake). i'd say 60% of my friends said to me, "bad graphics". first thing they said. New gamers don't know how lucky they have it, they obviously were tought to respect the graphics over games and gameplay. :no:

[Danrarbc]

That is correct.  Just like increasing the resolution in a PC game, it is more taxing on the system because more data will need to be processed (more calculations, higher resolution textures, more intricate shadows and lighting, etc), a bigger frame buffer will need to be filled, etc., and not to mention the games will require more space on the medium.  It will be interesting to see what developers are going to have to do to get a playable 30fps framerate for some of the more complex games.

586068239[/snapback]

Increasing resolution doesn't increase the resolution of textures, shadowing, lighting. Just the framebuffer needs to be larger. The the developer only has to make those more detailed if they want to. HD does not take up more space on the disc either, only if the developer wants the higher res textures.

And surprise surpise, Xbox 360 has 10MB dedicated to that purpose. It's able to pump out 720p with a very insignificant framerate hit. Seriously it won't be hard to hit 30 fps at all.

Nintendo's already using a dedicated framebuffer on the GameCube, so it's not as if they can't do it again, just with a bigger one for the extra res. This isn't a completely foreign idea to them.

[beardly]

My roommate has a 60" HDTV and it is awesome playing games in HD. The graphics do not make or break the game unless they are very poor or really good. A crappy game with really good graphics still sucks. Same thing with games that have crappy graphics.