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snyper
I give a lot to the membership here by not throwing ad's in your face like other sites do.

Part of the reason you have so many members.

I as said, dont have a prob with the adverts as such and know there reason for been there..however the day those popup screens appear...then.........

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Somnus

that's pretty ridiculous.

As I stated in my reply, I use adblocking methods but I whitelist this site because I _know_ it needs the revenue to survive and I _click_ on the ads to support it.

Just like I whitelist other forums I frequent to support them.

What's next? Limiting topics based on software/hardware that possibly a sponsor provides? Or that you prefer Opera over IE, so we can't talk about it anymore?

This is a very slippery slope that Neowin is getting into.

Let's face it, Neowin is fantastic for the non-obtrusive ads that are about the site and thus the reason I whitelist/support it. Other sites are _horrible_ for ads where they are in your face, bouncing all over your f**king screen making noise and ****ing you the hell off. THAT is what adblocking methods are for.

I see no reason why the administrators here should be so worried about users helping other users obtain useful software/filters to take care of those sites.

One could even provide a filterset that included a whitelist entry for Neowin. It can be that easy.

Censorship only leads to corruption. Remember that.

Edit:

I should note that there are always going to be people that will block your ads or won't support the site. There is little you can do about that other than charge a fee which would probably kill off half your membership as well.

The method you and your staff are taking certainly isn't the correct one either. I have been a moderator on numerous boards, and censorship drives people away faster than fees do.

Edited by Somnus
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sfalcon

I don't know what people's obsession with AdBlockers is. I used to use one a long time ago, and the false positives were just too annoying. Everyone here is pretty computer savvy, so I think you all know not to click on adds that say "click here to get spyware off your computer". I don't use any adblockers and I still don't notice ads on any of the sites I frequent. Unless you go to newspaper sites, most sites use ads pretty tastefully. It's easier to just not look at them than go to the trouble of blocking them all.

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Somnus

I don't know what people's obsession with AdBlockers is. I used to use one a long time ago, and the false positives were just too annoying. Everyone here is pretty computer savvy, so I think you all know not to click on adds that say "click here to get spyware off your computer". I don't use any adblockers and I still don't notice ads on any of the sites I frequent. Unless you go to newspaper sites, most sites use ads pretty tastefully. It's easier to just not look at them than go to the trouble of blocking them all.

This has nothing to do with technical experience.

It has _everything_ to do with what I choose to see what I choose not to see. It also goes to privacy issues. Most banner ads place cookies on your system, or that track you and can place ads on sites based on sites that you surf that you are more likely to look at.

That is forced advertising and is something I have a real problem with. Almost like when you purchase a pair of jeans. There is a tag of what company's jeans you are wearing. You just purchased the right to be a walking bulletin board for that company. I rip those tags off immediately. I paid for the jeans, not to be an advertising platform.

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Joel

It has _everything_ to do with what I choose to see what I choose not to see. It also goes to privacy issues. Most banner ads place cookies on your system, or that track you and can place ads on sites based on sites that you surf that you are more likely to look at.

Do you have a real-world example of this?

That is forced advertising and is something I have a real problem with. Almost like when you purchase a pair of jeans. There is a tag of what company's jeans you are wearing. You just purchased the right to be a walking bulletin board for that company. I rip those tags off immediately. I paid for the jeans, not to be an advertising platform.

So then the internet seems to not be the place for you.

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Joel

Of course. Who spouts stuff on the internet without proof to back it up?

http://www.doubleclick.com/us/about_doubleclick/privacy/

It is called a persistant cookie.

It's called paranoia. Give me an example of this info (the collected stuff) being proved in use. Show me a report from an internet user where the result of their surfing to a doubleclick site resulted in ANY personal inconvenience (one that is more than the "inconvenience" of seeing an ad on the side of a bus).

Of course it is. I just filter what I choose not to see.

And some sites filtre who they allow on their sites, some of them by blocking browsers running Adblock. Would you cry foul over that, or shrug and move on, until ALL sites who need their revenue implemented this policy?

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Somnus

It's called paranoia. Give me an example of this info (the collected stuff) being proved in use. Show me a report from an internet user where the result of their surfing to a doubleclick site resulted in ANY personal inconvenience (one that is more than the "inconvenience" of seeing an ad on the side of a bus).

Once again we have a moderator/supervisor/administrator from Neowin being completely obtuse and avoiding the subject.

I provided the proof you wanted. The inconvience is that I don't _want_ to see their bull**** ads, nor do I want their bull**** tracking methods on my damn system. So I will use any methods possible to prevent that from happening.

You now have your "personal inconvience". Satisfied?

And some sites filtre who they allow on their sites, some of them by blocking browsers running Adblock. Would you cry foul over that, or shrug and move on, until ALL sites who need their revenue implemented this policy?

Website owners can do whatever they like with their sites. They _own_ them. They can censor what people talk about, what browsers people use, what underwear people are allowed to wear while surfing the site, and even what they can eat or drink.

Unfortunately just like any popular website, it is only as popular as the users it attracts. If you censor people to much they will just find their way to a site that won't. And you will be left with nothing more than a server and a domain name. I have seen it happen more than once.

I whitelist this site because I support it. This seems to be a fact you missed out on a few posts ago.

What I haven't missed however is the fact the administration here would rather lose members by censoring users over talk about adblockers and ad filters and have them just fall into place, click their heels, raise their hands and gloriously yell "Das Fuhr!", then realize this is an issue far past just this site.

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Joel

Once again we have a moderator/supervisor/administrator from Neowin being completely obtuse and avoiding the subject.

I provided the proof you wanted. The inconvience is that I don't _want_ to see their bull**** ads, nor do I want their bull**** tracking methods on my damn system. So I will use any methods possible to prevent that from happening.

You now have your "personal inconvience". Satisfied?

Asking questions and asking for clarification is not being obtuse.

Now you're saying that you don't want to see "their bull**** ads", but before it was the whole tracking nonsense. If it's about seeing the ads, do you refuse to ride the bus or watch television, or even listen to the radio (assuming you wouldn't want to hear ads either)?

And you actually haven't answered how it's an inconvenience, to you or anyone else. Show me a direct result of an ad harming an internet user with a cookie. Telling me you don't want ads is clear. Now tell me what they do to you.

Website owners can do whatever they like with their sites. They _own_ them. They can censor what people talk about, what browsers people use, what underwear people are allowed to wear while surfing the site, and even what they can eat or drink.

Unfortunately just like any popular website, it is only as popular as the users it attracts. If you censor people to much they will just find their way to a site that won't. And you will be left with nothing more than a server and a domain name. I have seen it happen more than once.

I whitelist this site because I support it. This seems to be a fact you missed out on a few posts ago.

What I haven't missed however is the fact the administration here would rather lose members by censoring users over talk about adblockers and ad filters and have them just fall into place, click their heels, raise their hands and gloriously yell "Das Fuhr!", then realize this is an issue far past just this site.

We don't allow warez talk either. Is that upsetting? Are you driven to discuss adblockers? Is it a physical need, like an addiction? Or do you possess a modicum of self-control, which enables you to respect what is being asked of the member base regarding adblockers?

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Somnus

Asking questions and asking for clarification is not being obtuse.

Now you're saying that you don't want to see "their bull**** ads", but before it was the whole tracking nonsense. If it's about seeing the ads, do you refuse to ride the bus or watch television, or even listen to the radio (assuming you wouldn't want to hear ads either)?

I don't listen to much radio (unless it is my XM Radio), and I certainly don't watch TV. Advertising is out of control. Like I sad before. Where I can control what I see (and hear), I do.

And you actually haven't answered how it's an inconvenience, to you or anyone else. Show me a direct result of an ad harming an internet user with a cookie. Telling me you don't want ads is clear. Now tell me what they do to you.

The harm is in a breach of privacy. Based on the sites you see, they are placing ads that you will likely click on and prefer seeing. The this is, you are an _unwilling_ participant. You have no control over it, unless you block the ads that create the cookie.

We don't allow warez talk either. Is that upsetting? Are you driven to discuss adblockers? Is it a physical need, like an addiction? Or do you possess a modicum of self-control, which enables you to respect what is being asked of the member base regarding adblockers?

I completely agree with the warez talk. I wouldn't allow it either.

I am not driven to discuss adblockers. It could be browsers if suddenly the administration felt we couldn't talk about one due to his or her preferences or from promotional monies.

The member base here is not asking us/me not to talk about adblockers. You/administration is. There is a difference.

You are censoring us because you think it will decline revenues to the site. Nothing more. Nothing less.

This discussion is profit driven.

If people don't want to see the ads, they won't. You can't control that even if you restrict clients with adblock. They will use other means.

Simply stating people can't discuss this or that is just futile. They will discuss it elsewhere and implement those ideas here.

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer...

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sfalcon

If you're that paranoid, why don't you adjust the way your browser handles cookies? Seems that would be heaps easier. Deny all cookies, and allow only those necessary for you to browse the sites you like. No privacy issues to worry about then.

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Somnus

If you're that paranoid, why don't you adjust the way your browser handles cookies? Seems that would be heaps easier. Deny all cookies, and allow only those necessary for you to browse the sites you like. No privacy issues to worry about then.

Let me get this straight.. we aren't allow to talk about:

- Ad blockers

- browsers/broswer addons like Maxthon/Ads Filter/Opera that enable ad blocking

- Hosts file

- Or any other method of blocking ads

Because the administration feels then people here would stop clicking on the ads on the site? Or stop veiwing them?

And I am the paranoid one?

Possibly the admins/mods/supervisors can tell me where they all live so I can recommend a good psychologist is their area, because this is completely rediculous.

What's next? People who use their left hand to move their mouse can't browse the site because that's just "freaky"?

Just when I thought I had seen everything...

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farmeunit

I "used" to click on an ad every once in a while. I will NEVER click on ads again anywhere. I'd like to help you out and all, BUT it's not any different than TV ads. I don't watch them either. When they come on I switch channels. Forced ads actually **** me off more than anything, especially those that pop up and cover half the screen with the small close button, or the roll-over ones that do the same thing. It's just getting ridiculous nowadays. Although I must admit, NEOWIN is a lot cleaner, ad-wise than a lot of sites.

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g33kb0y

I'm not a very active member on the board, but I do have a suggestion to make. I would like to see the end of key word and phrases in-text advertising (such as the services offered by Vibrant Media) on Neowin.

I do not mind banner ads and often click those that interest me. However, due to my personal disagreement (and annoyance) with the technology I refuse to purposely click on any hyperlink advertisement IntelliTxt creates. For what it's worth.

http://www.adweek.com/aw/iq_interactive/ar...t_id=1000730917

http://www.threadwatch.org/node/3523

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sfalcon

Let me get this straight.. we aren't allow to talk about:

- Ad blockers

- browsers/broswer addons like Maxthon/Ads Filter/Opera that enable ad blocking

- Hosts file

- Or any other method of blocking ads

Because the administration feels then people here would stop clicking on the ads on the site? Or stop veiwing them?

And I am the paranoid one?

Possibly the admins/mods/supervisors can tell me where they all live so I can recommend a good psychologist is their area, because this is completely rediculous.

What's next? People who use their left hand to move their mouse can't browse the site because that's just "freaky"?

Just when I thought I had seen everything...

Hey, all I was pointing out is that disabling cookies seemed to be an easier alternative for what you previously said was your major gripe, and you came back with this digression. Now I realize you were just making a big deal not because of ads but for the sake of creating a fuss.

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Jayzee

Well, I never thought of disabling ads on Neowin or any other page (just really annoying ones where 70% of page consists of banners and other crap, such as aftonbladet.se) since I've got 100mbit connection and have no problems with slow loading pages.

BUT, if a user want to block ads on any site I highly recommend Opera's block content feature - it kicks ass! :D

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Somnus

Hey, all I was pointing out is that disabling cookies seemed to be an easier alternative for what you previously said was your major gripe, and you came back with this digression. Now I realize you were just making a big deal not because of ads but for the sake of creating a fuss.

The easier solution would be that the administration here stop being so anal and obtuse and realize that there is more internet out there than just this site.

There is a reason that more than 50 ad blockers and pop up stoppers exist. People are tired of ads, pop ups, pop unders, floating ads, flash ads.. the list goes on.

Why disable cookies when you can just stop the ad all together before the cookie is an issue?

I am not trying to make a fuss. If that is how you see it, then there are more problems here than just the censorship over ad revenue.

Let me guess.. the users created this problem.. not the administrators? Right?

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snyper

I think the simple concept behind it is that because this is such a large site it is attractive to advertise on, i dont blame the admin at all for using the resource, The problem is when do the admin decide its ok to promote choking the resource they have worked to develop?

I think if one reads between the lines, yes go ahead block your ads if it suits the particular user, but just dont go over promoting the idea..and the admin are and seem to keep the content of the adverts to a social enuff standard.

No i wouldnt use the site if i was been mauraded by adverts butfact is its not. The censorship is more of a protection of the sites interests and in all the communities interests by their actions.

I feel its common sence really.

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sfalcon

The easier solution would be that the administration here stop being so anal and obtuse and realize that there is more internet out there than just this site.

There is a reason that more than 50 ad blockers and pop up stoppers exist. People are tired of ads, pop ups, pop unders, floating ads, flash ads.. the list goes on.

Why disable cookies when you can just stop the ad all together before the cookie is an issue?

I am not trying to make a fuss. If that is how you see it, then there are more problems here than just the censorship over ad revenue.

Let me guess.. the users created this problem.. not the administrators? Right?

What "problem"? Neowin's a private forum and has every right to protect its revenue stream through whatever means they deem necessary. You're holding a private site to the same standards as the government. You're not forced to come to the site so forbidding you from discussing ways to harm their interests is not a gross violation of your rights.

Internet advertising has gotten better. I use firefox as my only defense and I get no pop-ups, no talking ads, no pop unders no flash ads. If you're getting those from Neowin then the problem is on your end. The best way for you to stop oppressive ads is to stop visiting whatever sites you keep getting them all at. I don't visit any sites that give me the range of annoyances you outlined.

I don't think you're trying deliberately to make a fuss, but you're trying to make this some sort of slippery slope that it isn't. Just take it at face value and get on with your life. One little banner ad shouldn't be runing your day and if it is then maybe you have bigger problems than ad censorship.

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p858snake

I dont see why people must block the ads on neowin (i can undertand blocking them at work), there not really a promblem (well maybe for that period we had porn ads) and the site is designed so that there is not promblem, and why whats wrong with a few extar loading seconds on the page??

EG:On the frontpage there in the side area and top area where they don't disrupt the flow of the site (do you really want one inbetween every post?)

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Steven P.

The easier solution would be that the administration here stop being so anal and obtuse and realize that there is more internet out there than just this site.

Go elsewhere then before I ban your IP from even viewing this site.

I think you're a dick and you are the one being totally anal, I bet you'd even expect me to pay for your internet connection as well as pay for Neowin out of my own pocket for the 'luxury' of your visit here.

if everyone thought like you, we wouldn't even be having this discussion because there wouldn't be a site to discuss it on. Why is it so hard to understand?

I guess you'd rather block ad's and view my site at the expense of others, that is anal.

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Somnus

Go elsewhere then before I ban your IP from even viewing this site.

I think you're a dick and you are the one being totally anal, I bet you'd even expect me to pay for your internet connection as well as pay for Neowin out of my own pocket for the 'luxury' of your visit here.

if everyone thought like you, we wouldn't even be having this discussion because there wouldn't be a site to discuss it on. Why is it so hard to understand?

I guess you'd rather block ad's and view my site at the expense of others, that is anal.

I don't block your ads. If you had read previous replies you would know that. I white list this site.

I also wouldn't expect you to pay for my internet connection.

Your response was expected as you would rather people just fall in line or ban them than debate or challenge you on why decisions are made.

There are other solutions that just saying "You can't talk about it!".

Do what you will...

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snyper
Your response was expected as you would rather people just fall in line or ban them than debate or challenge you on why decisions are made.

THERE ARE 247 POSTS ON THIS TOPIC!!!

How can you accuse the administration of not wanting too discuss the topic.?!?

Its your approach to this dicussion that is the problem. Im not the one to be an ass kisser here, but there are time when people are trolling..

accusing someone of been anal is not and not readin or taking note of what the other members have said in this post just makes your opinions seem to be that of troll.

The other members dont have a problem..if we did we wouldnt be here. Live with it ...

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KHaKi-

I dont see a problem with ads (especially the ones here). Anyone complaining about it can block them and keep their mouth shut, or have some respect for neowin, deal with a few ads (which are less annoying and frequent then the majority of sites out there) and still enjoy the site.

Honestly it could be a lot worse.

I think people have just become so stuck on themselves that they believe anything that bothers them/annoys/inconviences/whatever should have to change because the world revolves around them. (N)

insert "omg kiss@ss" and other stupid flames :rolleyes:

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g33kb0y

Go elsewhere then before I ban your IP from even viewing this site.

I think you're a dick and you are the one being totally anal, I bet you'd even expect me to pay for your internet connection as well as pay for Neowin out of my own pocket for the 'luxury' of your visit here.

if everyone thought like you, we wouldn't even be having this discussion because there wouldn't be a site to discuss it on. Why is it so hard to understand?

I guess you'd rather block ad's and view my site at the expense of others, that is anal.

I tried to fight it, but I just can't any longer.

<rant>

Why don't you go ahead and block my IP, as well. Don't forget that ISPs use DHCP, so I can request a new address any time I want (I can pull a few strings and change between four or five /24 subnets), so you'll want to be sure you block my ISP's subnet (not sure the mask, so feel to whois-me or guess). Make sure you get my workplace's /19 subnet as well as our secondary /19 subnet we no longer use but still have rights to. Better make sure you block our ISP's because I can piggy back on others they host via other dedicated links. While you're at it, block all open proxies and my parent's / friends' ISP subnets too because I'll just proxy my connection through them for access to Neowin.

You make idle threats like that and call other people ######? Your site is open to the world. While you have every right to protect your revenue stream, your visitors have every right to block the methods you use to make your money if they so choose. That's the RISK you take when you run a site on the Internet - and you know damn well it's the truth. The balance is made when you advertise in such a method your visitors do not find problematic, or you find other ways of generating revenue (like you've already done). If you don't like it, shut down Neowin. Simple.

</rant>

Edited by g33kb0y
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