Vista, Office 2007 cracked. Kind of.

[Somnus]

Now you if you worked for MS you'ld sound like you are trying to get a raise

Piracy is something that really gets under my skin.

Certain individuals almost feel they are entitled to do it because companies make large profits, or are in the news quite a bit. What they don't realize is the company is not solely making money off their software.

I am a company owner myself, and I invest in other companies. I partner with other resources in my area to make myself more profitable. Raising a profit margin has much more to do than everyday sales.

Piracy does more than just hurt sales. Theft hurts more than just prices at the cash register.

The stigma that piracy is something cool to do, or is something that you will never be caught for has to change. It is hurting real people with real lives, and I have seen it myself.

I don't need a raise to realize that piracy is wrong or that a software vendor deserves to be paid for it's work. You just need some common sense and a respectable sense of values.

[Goku]

Lets get it straight, if someone can't afford buying Windows, he/she will not do so, no matter the copy protection or how irritating you'll make it to use pirated copy.

You still don't get it, that there are countries, where you are not a student, you work 8 hours a day and earn 180-600$ per month, do you? And that's for majority of people, many of them with higher education. And no, it's not some third world. Czech Republic, Poland, Ukraine, Slovenia, Slovakia, Hungary... it would be easier to count countries that can afford it, than those who can't. And I would risk the statement, that there is over a billion of people over the world, who are using pirated Windows and would like to go genuine, but they can't afford it.

i second that... not a lot of people can afford it ... well said Pitreck

[Somnus]

Again, depending where do you live. I get 8-9$ per 8h of work, so it would be about a dollar per hour. After paying all my bills I get left with about 50$ for food and clothes for whole month. Not too much to spend on software, eh? And there are about 20 million of people in my country that lives like this.

And it seems on that $50 you were able to save for a computer and have internet.

I remember when Windows 2000 first came out, there was a young gentleman up the street from me who literally ate nothing but oatmeal 3 times/day for 2 months to be able to afford his copy.

He made sacrifices to pay for what he wanted instead of pirating it. I respected him so much for that, when Windows XP came out, I purchased a copy for him.

As I said before. If you want something bad enough, save for it. Make sacrifices. Don't steal it. You will respect the item more once you get it, and you will respect yourself more as well.

[Deniss]

I seriously don't think that a huge corporation like Microsoft requires additional funding. These guys got their money from long time ago, just because they happened to be the only ones.

The price should go down or at least stay on the same level. That's the rule for corporations and that's how the gov. should control them. Their goal is to benefit the end user / consumer.

Instead what do we see? Price is getting higher = Microsoft making more money = making more bugs = making more updates = integrating everything into windows = making every other previous windows version less usable.

Seriously, does Windows have an alternative? No. Maybe in North America, where half of you guys use Apple, but def. not in Europe, where Apple is only a fruit.

Microsoft is a Corp., and they do whatever they want, because people depend upon them. Yes, we depend upon Microsoft in every single way.

In recent years banks made grandma's and grandpa's get a computer, because that is the only free way to pay their bills: less and less companies are starting to accept checks and cash payments.

I disagree with the price changes. Yes intellectual work and labor costs money, but I don't think money is the key problem for Microsoft, or is it? :whistle:

[liquidcore]

You can lower the price to half of what it is now and still you will be able to pay-up all your employees. I will even say more! Lowering prices to half of current state will make 3 times more people buy your product, so you will make even more money on it that you're making now.

Lets get it straight, if someone can't afford buying Windows, he/she will not do so, no matter the copy protection or how irritating you'll make it to use pirated copy.

You still don't get it, that there are countries, where you are not a student, you work 8 hours a day and earn 180-600$ per month, do you? And that's for majority of people, many of them with higher education. And no, it's not some third world. Czech Republic, Poland, Ukraine, Slovenia, Slovakia, Hungary... it would be easier to count countries that can afford it, than those who can't. And I would risk the statement, that there is over a billion of people over the world, who are using pirated Windows and would like to go genuine, but they can't afford it.

i second that... not a lot of people can afford it ... well said Pitreck

1) There are the free alternatives. No one says you HAVE to have certain software.

2) For Office At some point, people are in school, even those people with higher eduction that you spoke of. Thats all you need to get Office Student Edition free of charge.

3) If you don't make that much money, the chances your computer could reasonably operate Windows Vista Ultimate Edition? Slim to none, which makes that entire section of your post irrelevant.

Edited November 13, 2006 by liquidcore

[Sethos]

"2) At some point, people are in school. Thats all you need to get XP Free"

What ...

"3) If you don't make that much money, the chances your computer could reasonably operate Windows Vista Ultimate Edition? Slim to none, which makes that entire section of your post irrelevant. "

I spent all my money on the Computer :p

[SmacK]

As I said before. If you want something bad enough, save for it. Make sacrifices. Don't steal it. You will respect the item more once you get it, and you will respect yourself more as well.

QFT

[Goku]

1) There are the free alternatives. No one says you HAVE to have certain software.

2) For Office At some point, people are in school, even those people with higher eduction that you spoke of. Thats all you need to get Office Student Edition free of charge.

3) If you don't make that much money, the chances your computer could reasonably operate Windows Vista Ultimate Edition? Slim to none, which makes that entire section of your post irrelevant.

i live in a country that doesn't enforce software copy rights law... and if you want to buy an original software, it costs double what you pay in the US, why should i spend around 1000USD for an OS while i can get it for a few bucks!! ... i mean companies here like Dell and others (representatives for dell and other brands) sell computers with pirated software.... go figure!!

[liquidcore]

I seriously don't think that a huge corporation like Microsoft requires additional funding. These guys got their money from long time ago, just because they happened to be the only ones.

The price should go down or at least stay on the same level. That's the rule for corporations and that's how the gov. should control them. Their goal is to benefit the end user / consumer.

I'll let you be the person to tell all the software designers that you feel that they shouldn't be paid anymore because they got a paycheck at one time.

While not every Vista version correlates exactly with an XP product version, the pricing is inline with XP pricing. For example, XP Home is $189.00, compared to $199.99 for Vista Home Basic, while XP Home Upgrade is $89.97, just two cents off from the Vista Home Basic Upgrade.) Upsells won't be particularly expensive, either: Pricing for the much more capable Vista Home Premium are just $40 to $60 higher than that of Home Basic.

Lets not forget Windows Starter 2007:

Aimed at beginner computer users in emerging markets who can only afford a low cost PC. As with the XP version, Windows Starter 2007 (note that it's not branded as Window Vista) is a subset of Vista Home Basic, and will ship in a 32-bit version only (no 64-bit x64 version). Starter 2007 will allow only three applications (and/or three windows) to run simultaneously, will provide Internet connectivity but not incoming network communications, and will not provide for logon passwords or Fast User Switching (FUS). Starter 2007 is analogous to XP Starter Edition. This version will only be sold in emerging markets.

Windows Starter 2007 is lacking a number of unique features found in most of the other Vista product editions. There is no Aero user interface, for example, and no support for Castle-based networking. Other missing features include DVD Authoring, gaming common controller support, and image editing with enhanced touchup.

The marketing message: For beginner computer users in emerging markets who can only afford a low cost PC, Windows Starter 2007 provides a more affordable and easy introduction to personal computing because it is lower priced, tailored to the needs of beginner personal computer users, compatible with a wide range of Windows-based applications and devices, and tailored to each market.

Edited November 13, 2006 by liquidcore

[Somnus]

i live in a country that doesn't enforce software copy rights law... and if you want to buy an original software, it costs double what you pay in the US, why should i spend around 1000USD for an OS while i can get it for a few bucks!! ... i mean companies here like Dell and others (representatives for dell and other brands) sell computers with pirated software.... go figure!!

I live in Canada where they really don't enforce copy right laws either. That doesn't mean I go and do it.

Also if there are Dell reps selling computers with pirated software installed, then that is a real problem. That concerns me even more than you just downloading it and using it. (Both bother me, but someone selling pirated software is just compounding the problem)

I empathize with your living situation, I really do. It still doesn't justify stealing software.

[diamonds]

Hmm, he doesnt have to be the one to tell them, I will. Long live the PiRaTe

[Goku]

I live in Canada where they really don't enforce copy right laws either. That doesn't mean I go and do it.

Also if there are Dell reps selling computers with pirated software installed, then that is a real problem. That concerns me even more than you just downloading it and using it. (Both bother me, but someone selling pirated software is just compounding the problem)

I empathize with your living situation, I really do. It still doesn't justify stealing software.

and what do you think of double charging for the original software price?? would you buy windows xp pro for 1000USD??

[Deniss]

I'll let you be the person to tell all the software designers that you feel that they shouldn't be paid anymore because they got a paycheck at one time.

While not every Vista version correlates exactly with an XP product version, the pricing is inline with XP pricing. For example, XP Home is $189.00, compared to $199.99 for Vista Home Basic, while XP Home Upgrade is $89.97, just two cents off from the Vista Home Basic Upgrade.) Upsells won't be particularly expensive, either: Pricing for the much more capable Vista Home Premium are just $40 to $60 higher than that of Home Basic.

But why exactly are they higher? Why should I pay more? Can you provide me with a breakdown? As far as I am concerned Microsoft has done nothing to make this Windows version run EVEN better on my EVEN older computer.

All I see is this: I need a better computer (costs me money), better monitor (costs me money) and I need to pay for all the other NEW applications that are compatible with this version of Windows (costs me money).

My main point is: we cannot determine how much we need to pay for Windows and other Microsoft software because there ARE NO alternatives for us to compare with.

I am not saying you should stop paying Microsoft employees, no you shouldn't. But not by the cost for end user.

Since it's a corporation, government should finance Microsoft so that it can offer better prices of consumers.

And what exactly is new in Windows Vista? Better graphics? I shouldn't even start on the amounts that designers make. They make so little... most of them of course.

and what do you think of double charging for the original software price?? would you buy windows xp pro for 1000USD??

You would. Even for 2000, because that's the only way to go. Oh yes, and there is piracy of course.

By no means I will encourage piracy, but this is what happens with big companies.

Thank God we don't have a pirated BMW or Mercedes or whatever from that class :)

[Xab]

Eh, in my opinion, Microsoft makes way too much money. I have no qualms downloading Windows, so I will. If you don't like that, too damn bad :D

[zhangm Supervisor]

It can't be said enough - there is no gradient, or bell curve for pricing out any product of value in cases like this. You'll always have two major groups of people representing at least 75% of the market.

There are the people who will get it legitimately, giving the software industry momentum to continue making improvements and more versions. Then there are the people who don't give a crap whether the software costs 200$ or 9.95$. They'll pirate it anyway for a variety of reasons - too lazy to work and make money to buy the software, or they'll pirate a 1500$ suite of programs simply to brag to all their friends that "OMG, I have * and thus am leet, even though I don't know how to use it and probably never will learn!"

Lowering Vista's price by 100 or even 150$ won't do anything to bring it into the "price bracket" of people who would pirate it anyway. The mentality goes: If you could have a chocolate bar for free, or buy it for 10$, which would you choose? What if you could have the same bar for free, or pay 8$ for it? How about for free, or pay 4$ for it? The people who think it justifyable to steal will steal regardless of how much they'd need to pay to obtain the product legally.

[theresiststance2003]

It can't be said enough - there is no gradient, or bell curve for pricing out any product of value in cases like this. You'll always have two major groups of people representing at least 75% of the market.

There are the people who will get it legitimately, giving the software industry momentum to continue making improvements and more versions. Then there are the people who don't give a crap whether the software costs 200$ or 9.95$. They'll pirate it anyway for a variety of reasons - too lazy to work and make money to buy the software, or they'll pirate a 1500$ suite of programs simply to brag to all their friends that "OMG, I have * and thus am leet, even though I don't know how to use it and probably never will learn!"

Lowering Vista's price by 100 or even 150$ won't do anything to bring it into the "price bracket" of people who would pirate it anyway. The mentality goes: If you could have a chocolate bar for free, or buy it for 10$, which would you choose? What if you could have the same bar for free, or pay 8$ for it? How about for free, or pay 4$ for it? The people who think it justifyable to steal will steal regardless of how much they'd need to pay to obtain the product legally.

Not true at all. I know personally I'd pay $9.95 or even $49.95 for an OS that is pretty much needed to run the programs I'd like to run. But when prices get as ridiculous as they are for Vista (unless you want a gimped version of the OS like Home Basic) then people can and will resort to piracy. And ten dollars for a candy bar is ridiculous. Four is still a bit pricey. Most candy bars are around $1.50ish, and most people would pay that. I've never stolen a material good that would cause a loss of profit to replace, and I never will. Bad analogy imo.

[Goku]

if they sell vista for 100$ i would buy it and not for 1000..

[Deniss]

It can't be said enough - there is no gradient, or bell curve for pricing out any product of value in cases like this. You'll always have two major groups of people representing at least 75% of the market.

There are the people who will get it legitimately, giving the software industry momentum to continue making improvements and more versions. Then there are the people who don't give a crap whether the software costs 200$ or 9.95$. They'll pirate it anyway for a variety of reasons - too lazy to work and make money to buy the software, or they'll pirate a 1500$ suite of programs simply to brag to all their friends that "OMG, I have * and thus am leet, even though I don't know how to use it and probably never will learn!"

Lowering Vista's price by 100 or even 150$ won't do anything to bring it into the "price bracket" of people who would pirate it anyway. The mentality goes: If you could have a chocolate bar for free, or buy it for 10$, which would you choose? What if you could have the same bar for free, or pay 8$ for it? How about for free, or pay 4$ for it? The people who think it justifyable to steal will steal regardless of how much they'd need to pay to obtain the product legally.

How many types of chocolate bars are there?

People are different, but there is only one Windows. Microsoft could gain a very significant amount of market, just by lowering the prices about 25-50%. And they would be making even more money.

I don't see that being the result by making the price even higher.

[technord]

It's about time Microsoft started looking towards App SPs

Perhaps the technology isn't mature enough yet, but it's getting real close. Maybe within the next 18months?

While it wouldn't completely eliminate piracy I think it would get a large percentage of it. Hell, I would pay for it rather than spending hundreds on software which I'll use like 2% of its features.

[Deniss]

Totally agree with ataris_kid.

[Matt B]

well in australia the ultimate version costs $700AUD which is $535US

$400US is $523AUD

i would be perfectly fine if the ultimate version cost $550AUD which is still $30AUD more then the us price, but it is not. it is almost $200 more just for an even larger profit

[Somnus]

and what do you think of double charging for the original software price?? would you buy windows xp pro for 1000USD??

If that was the only way to obtain a legal copy of Windows XP Professional, then yes. I would pay $1000US.

There is no gray area when it comes to piracy. White your right. Black your a hack. Simple as that.

[Pitreck]

And it seems on that $50 you were able to save for a computer and have internet.

That 50$ is after paying internet and 1/24 of PC parts credit.

Sorry, but I won't eat oatmeal and walk in tear-out trousers or take a 2 year credit just to buy an operating system, that comes on a DVD which costs 40 cents. As I said before, software is a one time cost and MS would make huge money (hundreds of billions) on it even if they sell it for 25$. When they put price on too high level they act like they don't care about millions of potential customers.

You forget about something important here. It's customer, that is the most important, not company and their profit. They are here for us, not we for them. People won't save on food to buy piece of software, so the software makers can feed their families and drive custom-made roadsters. If some company can't accept it, can't set price tag on appropriate level, then maybe they shouldn't work in software industry and sell bananas or fishes for example. And believe me, setting higher penalties for piracy won't change anything. Everything is in hands of software makers. Sure, you will spent millions of dollars on creating stuff, but then is up to you how much you will charge for it. And from this depends how many people will buy it and how much you will earn on it. I can go to jail, I don't care, it won't change my point of view, I won't make me feel sorry, that I did something wrong, because I didn't. It's not a car, that I stolen and someone doesn't have it now. It's hard to even call it a theft, because in software world, when I download something it's like I took a car, I have a car and that someone from who I took it still have a car :)

And the fact that I pirated something doesn't mean that I would buy this if piracy wasn't exist. Piracy doesn't reduce companys earnings. High price does.

[zhangm Supervisor]

Why can't people who can't afford Vista just stick with XP? If you're complaining about having to upgrade software and hardware for something that you claim isn't worth it, then don't bother doing so.

And really, if someone offered you 9.95$ for something that you've worked 40 hours a week on for the last 5 years, wouldn't you tell them to go to hell?

[theresiststance2003]

You said $9.95, I used it as an example. I offered $49.95. Or even $75.00 for something that wasn't a watered down version of the product I actually desire to purchase. ;)