One finger salute to Vista

[tnsply100]

People bitched about XP and said "Oh i'm sticking with 98 " XP sucks too childish, no drivers blah blah blah and now look at them. they are using XP and are bitching about vista... few years they will use vista and bitch about vienna.. and the cycle goes on...

This is the best post I've seen in this thread. The cycle indeed will continue...

Brandon_Live: I admire your restraint in dealing with the trolls. Rest assured that they do not represent the majority, and many of us are excited about Vista and looking forward to upgrading (sooner or later..)

General Thoughts:

I really don't want to judge vista yet. I can point some definite positives (my integrated audio has never ever sounded as good under XP or any other OS), and some definite negatives (media player classic doesn't seem to work.. be it MS's or the app developer's fault).

One thing I have been curious about in my Vista usage about: Is there any way to get information on exactly which process is trying to access to protected files through the UAC prompts? I've looked at the 'details' section, but often it isn't obvious which process the UAC prompt is referring to.

[trek]

I really don't want to judge vista yet. I can point some definite positives (my integrated audio has never ever sounded as good under XP or any other OS), and some definite negatives (media player classic doesn't seem to work.. be it MS's or the app developer's fault).

Media Player classic seems to be working fine for me; make sure you download the latest build from the project's sourceforge page.

[tnsply100]

Media Player classic seems to be working fine for me; make sure you download the latest build from the project's sourceforge page.

Oh? Thanks for the heads up. I'll try that out.

[richardsim7]

I think Vista's use of resources is great.

On XP, Setpoint uses 11mb of ram! :(

Yet on Vista, only 910k!! :D

-Rich-

[notuptome2004]

Vista uses Ram dynamicly ther for it can dynamicly relase ram as applications request it Example: games and other applications. here is a screenshot of vista on my system now grant you build 5278 so not RTM but as you see in it the CPU is being used alot cause i am encoding some videos for my Wii and PSP in the background. but look at the ram usage

Edited December 23, 2006 by notuptome2004

[Joshie]

It's a new OS. Backwards compatibility is never perfect...why do people get so ****y over the fact that software and drivers need to be updated to be Vista compatible? It's how it's always been. Like, when wasn't it?

And who would be surprised that games have problems? Games are notorious for screwing up with the slightest change of configuration. Hell, it isn't even just an OS issue. The exact same OS with the exact same updates can be on two completely different computers and one won't be able to run something as well as another, if at all.

What always annoyed me so much was how, on the off chance that a problem was 100% the fault of the GAME programmers, somebody somewhere with his cyber posse will be putting the blame squarely on Microsoft.

Baffles me, really. People aren't even thinking before they complain. It terrifies me that the same people have the right to vote.

[AMDMEFX-55]

I love Vista. Everything works for my laptop all the drivers and apps I install. Its alot faster then xp I say about 20X faster. And the glass effect makes it even faster. I will never go back to XP cause it sucks bad I had lots of trouble with XP so goodbye XP hello Vista.

[Busman401]

I love Vista. Everything works for my laptop all the drivers and apps I install. Its alot faster then xp I say about 20X faster. And the glass effect makes it even faster. I will never go back to XP cause it sucks bad I had lots of trouble with XP so goodbye XP hello Vista.

Check the grammar below your avatar.

[richardsim7]

Vista = Vista

XP = XP

If you don't like Vista...use XP!! :p

XP has had two service packs, millions of bugs fixed because it's been publicly released for 5 years, giving microsoft a much wider audience for bug reporting, whereas Vista has not been released to the general public yet so it has no chance of being anywhere near as good as XP is at the moment. But just wait a while, and you'll begin to see things dramatically improve :)

-Rich-

[MrCobra]

Ha This also sounds familiar to people calling for tech support ... "I installed a card I got free with my TRACTOR and I get a bluescreen... This system is a junk.. Its of no use..." I hate "<computer manufacturer>"..

LOL

[richp21]

i found out why there is still bugs.

[AMDMEFX-55]

Check the grammar below your avatar.

Edited December 24, 2006 by AMDMEFX-55

[Robgig1088]

even if vista were the best operating system ever released, I still would not give one cent to such an unethical company. seriously, like forcing flash drive companies to pay royalties for using the FAT32 partition on their drives (only because it needed to be compatible with MS). They are a greedy monopoly and I will always support open-source (or, if MS finds a way to defeat it once and for all, OSX)

[Brandon Live Veteran]

even if vista were the best operating system ever released, I still would not give one cent to such an unethical company. seriously, like forcing flash drive companies to pay royalties for using the FAT32 partition on their drives (only because it needed to be compatible with MS). They are a greedy monopoly and I will always support open-source (or, if MS finds a way to defeat it once and for all, OSX)

Huh? So any companies that collect royalties for use of their inventions is unethical? Since when? Is Novell unethical? Apple? Creative Labs? Sun? And I'm sure $0.25 is so unreasonable.

You also say "monopoly" like it's a bad thing. Why? Just because a company is extremely successful makes them bad? Getting off-topic here, but I think Microsoft should be allowed to do whatever they want in their products. If someone else can build something better, then by all means - go for it. But I don't think Microsoft should be "handicapped" because of their success.

[Spooky]

Concerning www.tvpolonia.com - Internet Explorer doesn't die as it just can't handle that sites code too well, Vista kicks into protect its self because www.tvpolonia.com attempts to send unsolicited information to your computer thru the browser and may be attempting to hijack the browser. If you had the Vista security features turned on you would have gotten a security notice from the Vista firewall telling you there was some sort of problem with iexplorer.exe because that site has some type of code that Vista senses wants to do something to iexplorer.exe or your system. Then if you looked in the Vista firewall after this you would have seen two rules added in the inbound rules blocking Internet Explorer for TCP and UDP from activities of this nature. No, IE doesn't die because Vista is crap, in fact Vista may have kept something bad from happening to your system or kept your system from being hijacked or compromised, and was doing its job for your benefit.

If your using another OS and you can go to www.tvpolonia.com just fine with that other browser in that other OS then the other OS is the one thats really a turd opertaing system because its not protecting you.

All the games i'm running work fine in Vista; Battlefield2, GRAW, FEAR.

Copying is fine from DVD to hard drive for me.

Firstly. I am so glad I didn't have to spend money to buy this turd operating system. Sure it was a gift from Microsoft for beta testing, but its a evil nasty product.

-Applications generally don't run as quick as Windows XP.

-File copying from DVD drive to Hard Disk is speed retarded.

-Lots of my games don't work or work at what seems is 30% slower than under Windows XP.

-My wife goes to www.tvpolonia.com and Internet Explorer dies - repeatedly.

I'm not even touching Windows Vista until after SP1 is released.

I have gone out and spent lots of cash and built a Core2Duo PC with 4GB DDR2 and while Vista itself boots and runs ok - application compatibility / Internet Explorer 7 reliability and general quirks mean I'm bidding farewell to vista while giving it a one finger salute.

Edited December 24, 2006 by Spooky

[Robgig1088]

Before you open your mouth about windows being ethical, look at the facts. Heres another example: Back in the DOS days, there was the DOS compiler and the Borland compiler. What DOS would do is look at the signatures from both exe files and if it were compiled with DOS, it would choose to run faster. Since most people used DOS, they assumed it was the better compiler. Is that not unethical? How about "embrace, extend, extinguish"? Now, thats exactly what they are doing to flash drive manufacturers. They encouraged the flash drivers to use the FAT32 to be compatible with MS. Once there were enough, they simply said okay. Pay us money now. that, my friend, is the DEFINITION of unethical. Do some research. There are hundreds of accounts of Microsoft using sly business tactics to get ahead. Ive never seen Apple do that.

The problem. Brandon Live, is that there ARE better, faster, more efficient, more stable operating systems. Personally, I would say OSX is best for the average consumer. If youre a programmer I would recommend linux. Microsoft is doing all it can to maintain dominance and its being sly and evil about it.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Before you open your mouth about windows being ethical, look at the facts. Heres another example: Back in the DOS days, there was the DOS compiler and the Borland compiler. What DOS would do is look at the signatures from both exe files and if it were compiled with DOS, it would choose to run faster. Since most people used DOS, they assumed it was the better compiler. Is that not unethical? How about "embrace, extend, extinguish"? Now, thats exactly what they are doing to flash drive manufacturers. They encouraged the flash drivers to use the FAT32 to be compatible with MS. Once there were enough, they simply said okay. Pay us money now. that, my friend, is the DEFINITION of unethical. Do some research. There are hundreds of accounts of Microsoft using sly business tactics to get ahead. Ive never seen Apple do that.

The problem. Brandon Live, is that there ARE better, faster, more efficient, more stable operating systems. Personally, I would say OSX is best for the average consumer. If youre a programmer I would recommend linux. Microsoft is doing all it can to maintain dominance and its being sly and evil about it.

There was no such thing as a DOS compiler. What you mean is the Microsoft C compiler, which was the better choice for application development at the time.

The theory that DOS would look at an executable's signature and then decide to run it faster or slower depending on which compiler it was built with is news to me. If you want to bring up examples for un-ethical behaviour by Microsoft at least use known ones, not ones pulled out of your arse.

One known example would be how beta versions of Windows 3.1 checked for the DOS version they ran on and gave a (non-fatal) error message if they detected a non-MS DOS version. You could also mention how during the first browser war Microsoft did whatever they could to beat Netscape - although imho Netscape beat themselves with the buggy mess which was Netscape 4.x. However: All those examples of un-ethical behaviour happened years and years ago. Sure Microsoft still isn't completely innocent, but: They're not nearly as evil as the ABM front thinks they are.

[Robgig1088]

If you can even deny that Microsoft uses "Embrace, extend, extinguish" techniques to dominate the market, you are blind. Perhaps Windows should focus more on creating an amazing operating system, rather than use dirty tricks to destroy the opposition. I support Linux and Apple to the fullest (and not just because its Unix-based). They aren't greedy like Microsoft is.

I also would like to add that Microsoft is greatly hindering the global computing industry by making things only inter-Microsoft compatible (for example, Microsoft cannot read EXT3 partitions, and do not plan to patch it, of course, no matter how much better it may be.)

[-Hiroshi-]

Had to ditch Vista, so it got my one finger salute as well. The OS kept breaking after the first week or so being installed, while I can keep XP installs virus free for over a year or two. It also runs slower than any other OS I have ever used.

[Menge]

Huh? So any companies that collect royalties for use of their inventions is unethical? Since when? Is Novell unethical? Apple? Creative Labs? Sun? And I'm sure $0.25 is so unreasonable.

QFE. if it's theirs, they have the right to charge for it.

You also say "monopoly" like it's a bad thing. Why? Just because a company is extremely successful makes them bad? Getting off-topic here, but I think Microsoft should be allowed to do whatever they want in their products. If someone else can build something better, then by all means - go for it. But I don't think Microsoft should be "handicapped" because of their success.

but i have to say that monopolies are a bad thing. face it: Microsoft, right now is the #1 company because... well... it WAS the #1 company when computers boomed. i don't think their current products (except for Office 2007 which is completely awesome) do their #1 position justice.

the point is not "if someone else can build something better (...) go for it". it's the fact that to build something better would require a long time and lots of investment. something only such huge company like microsoft has. not to mention the fact that even though it is better, people won't migrate because there's no compatibility or something like that.

[Robgig1088]

QFE. if it's theirs, they have the right to charge for it.

The only thing I have a problem with concerning flash drives, is that Microsoft allowed them to use the FAT32 partitioning to be compatible with their system. I mean had the flash drive makers used EXT3, windows couldn't read from it! So really, they were just trying to make things work for windows, windows let it grow, then punched it in the face. It seemed really really dirty to me.

[Menge]

The only thing I have a problem with concerning flash drives, is that Microsoft allowed them to use the FAT32 partitioning to be compatible with their system. I mean had the flash drive makers used EXT3, windows couldn't read from it! So really, they were just trying to make things work for windows, windows let it grow, then punched it in the face. It seemed really really dirty to me.

true... that comes from Microsoft's interoperability fear.

the less "compatible" with other alien standards their OS is, the more locked down they keep people, this smaller compatibility bubble is what keeps people from migrating to other things... they end up needing Windows for this and that thing.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

If you can even deny that Microsoft uses "Embrace, extend, extinguish" techniques to dominate the market, you are blind.

Do you have an example of that? I've heard of "Embrace and Extend" before, and never thought of it as a bad thing. That's sort of what Microsoft does with things like RSS - embracing a popular standard that consumers like and extending it (like Simple List Extensions, Sharing Extensions, etc) to make it more useful. I can't imagine what benefit Microsoft could have from then "extinguishing" something that's doing well for them.

Perhaps Windows should focus more on creating an amazing operating system, rather than use dirty tricks to destroy the opposition. I support Linux and Apple to the fullest (and not just because its Unix-based). They aren't greedy like Microsoft is.

What dirty tricks? Everything we do in Windows is to make it a better OS and to create a better experience for our users, developers, and enterprise partners. Unfortunately in many cases we aren't allowed to innovate because it's considered "unfair" to companies that can't do as good of a job or offer any value of their own (see security vendors, for example). You can bring up stuff from 15 years ago when Windows wouldn't run on non-MS DOS platforms... but really, is that so unethical? You don't think that Microsoft had the right to make their Windows software package require their DOS package? I think that's a completely 100% reasonable thing to do. Just like Apple locking their OS to their hardware. If you don't like it, don't buy it! Isn't capitalism wonderful?

I also would like to add that Microsoft is greatly hindering the global computing industry by making things only inter-Microsoft compatible (for example, Microsoft cannot read EXT3 partitions, and do not plan to patch it, of course, no matter how much better it may be.)

1) Are you saying that Microsoft should include support for Ext3 in the OS? Why? Who does it benefit?

2) Windows supports a fully pluggable filesystem interface, and at least one Ext2/Ext3 driver exists for Windows.

3) Ext3 is a totally lame filesystem. It's just the archaic Ext2 filesystem with a shoddy journalling implementation tacked on. Don't most Linux systems use ReiserFS these days? At least that's a reasonable clone of NTFS.

The only thing I have a problem with concerning flash drives, is that Microsoft allowed them to use the FAT32 partitioning to be compatible with their system. I mean had the flash drive makers used EXT3, windows couldn't read from it!

Sure it could, if they included a driver for it. Not exactly a difficult proposition especially since the driver already exists (and I think is even GPL'd).

The thing is, none of the Flash companies cared. If you want to actually debate the advantages or disadvantages of OSes then don't throw up straw man arguments like this one.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

[...]

1) Are you saying that Microsoft should include support for Ext3 in the OS? Why? Who does it benefit?

2) Windows supports a fully pluggable filesystem interface, and at least one Ext2/Ext3 driver exists for Windows.

3) Ext3 is a totally lame filesystem. It's just the archaic Ext2 filesystem with a shoddy journalling implementation tacked on. Don't most Linux systems use ReiserFS these days? At least that's a reasonable clone of NTFS.

Sure it could, if they included a driver for it...

Actually ext3 is the standard file system used by pretty much all Linux distributions. SUSE used to use ReiserFS as default, but has with the latest release (openSUSE 10.2) changed the default to ext3 as well. The fate of ReiserFS is a whole other story with the murder allegations against its author - which doesn't belong in this thread though.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Ah, haven't run Linux in a while so I didn't know about that. Used to use Reiser when I ran Gentoo (and Mandrake before that).