bangbang023 Veteran Posted March 24, 2009 Veteran Share Posted March 24, 2009 That makes no sense. Tier 1 subscribers pay for the incentives they have now and those who wish to support Neowin, yet not see ads, can upgrade to Tier 2. It's a fair price and should make both parties happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurkChris Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Finity is confirmed as working with the ad free modification, I hope tomorrow the rest of the themes are done too and then we can enable it :) Nice one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted March 24, 2009 MVC Share Posted March 24, 2009 I don't care about the badges and how we look. It is my opinion that they should have done the same features (adfree, no post timer, blog etc) for all subscriber tiers rather than just the most expensive one. That way you'd give an incentive to those who block the ads anyway to pay at least the smallest amount to contribute something. What you're saying doesn't make much sense. Those who block the ads now, using software, aren't going to convert en masse. Much like a software pirate, you can never expect to convert every pirate into a paying customer. With that being said, this isn't aimed at converting large numbers of those pirates to an AD free neowin. This plan is designed so that those users who do like NeoWin and don't like ADs can be given an option to remove the ADs without resorting to joining the pirates. So, the Tiers SHOULD be different so that the costs to NeoWin is properly reflected. Otherwise, why should NeoWin eat the cost of forgoing AD revenue on the lower tier? That cost them the same as letting the pirate pirate (they are forced to eat that cost too)... Hopefully that makes it all clearer for you ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vice Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Technically its not Piracy cause that would mean your stealing something or copying something but the Ad Blocker users are just rejecting something being given to them. I mean you could make the argument that users are Stealing content, but the content is free to view and no one entered in to a contract. It's like a shop keeper throwing free candy bars at people and then telling them they are stealing if they reject the candy bars on the grounds of the energy expenditure in throwing it at you. Not that I'm condoning Ad Blocking or anything I don't use one myself. I'm seeing some Experian Credit Report ad at the bottom of this topic actually. It's FREE! apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted March 24, 2009 MVC Share Posted March 24, 2009 Technically its not Piracy cause that would mean your stealing something or copying something but the Ad Blocker users are just rejecting something being given to them.I mean you could make the argument that users are Stealing content, but the content is free to view and no one entered in to a contract. It's like a shop keeper throwing free candy bars at people and then telling them they are stealing if they reject the candy bars on the grounds of the energy expenditure in throwing it at you. Not that I'm condoning Ad Blocking or anything I don't use one myself. I'm seeing some Experian Credit Report ad at the bottom of this topic actually. It's FREE! apparently. No it actually is piracy... The content on NeoWin is copyright material owned by NeoWin which is being offered to the viewers free as long as they see the ads... It is the same as if you downloaded an AD supported game for free then used a tool to strip the ADs out. That would be piracy. As the ADs are what paid for the game and is apart of the agreement between you and the content creator. ...The unauthorized use or reproduction of copyrighted or patented material: software piracy. ... http://www.answers.com/piracy Unless NeoWin authorizes the use of AD Blocking software it is piracy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d4v1d05 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 No it actually is piracy... The content on NeoWin is copyright material owned by NeoWin which is being offered to the viewers free as long as they see the ads... It is the same as if you downloaded an AD supported game for free then used a tool to strip the ADs out. That would be piracy. As the ADs are what paid for the game and is apart of the agreement between you and the content creator.Unless NeoWin authorizes the use of AD Blocking software it is piracy... You need to learn the definition of piracy a bit better... 1. The act or crime of a pirate.2. (Common Law) Robbery on the high seas; the taking of property from others on the open sea by open violence; without lawful authority, and with intent to steal; -- a crime answering to robbery on land. Note: By statute law several other offenses committed on the seas (as trading with known pirates, or engaging in the slave trade) have been made piracy. 3. "Sometimes used, in a quasi-figurative sense, of violation of copyright; but for this, infringement is the correct and preferable term." --Abbott. Pay close attention to #1 and #2... those are the real definitions of piracy, the "piracy" music companies and stuff are talking about is actually copyright theft... NOT piracy... What you're actually talking about is circumventing the adverts within a game, however, by using an ad-blocker online, most likely you are merely NOT making requests to ad servers specified by a blacklist, the same as if a company decides to block specific porn/etc. websites, which by your definition, blocking access to those is piracy, too? Some adblockers will, however change HTML code within the site, and since HTML is distributed under a free license, all HTML-derivatives must be under the same license(I think?) therefore the user is allowed to modify the HTML to allow them to block adverts... And, before you ask, no I don't use an ad-blocker... I look forward to subscribing to the new ad-free group :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wannes Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I know we're not allowed to talk about ad-blockers, but uh...this is going to fail miserably. I don't use an ad-blocker and yet, I'm still going to buy the package. It's just to support the site. The ads shouldn't bother anyone because they are placed very discrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted March 25, 2009 MVC Share Posted March 25, 2009 You need to learn the definition of piracy a bit better...Pay close attention to #1 and #2... those are the real definitions of piracy, the "piracy" music companies and stuff are talking about is actually copyright theft... NOT piracy... You have to remember language is fluid and constantly in change. 200 years ago Piracy meant theft on the high seas and now it also means digital theft. Language changes. I can think of countless terms that meant one thing in the past and means another now. It doesn't make the new meaning wrong because it differs. That is how language works. It updates itself to reflect society at that time. What you're actually talking about is circumventing the adverts within a game, however, by using an ad-blocker online, most likely you are merely NOT making requests to ad servers specified by a blacklist, the same as if a company decides to block specific porn/etc. websites, which by your definition, blocking access to those is piracy, too? Some adblockers will, however change HTML code within the site, and since HTML is distributed under a free license, all HTML-derivatives must be under the same license(I think?) therefore the user is allowed to modify the HTML to allow them to block adverts...And, before you ask, no I don't use an ad-blocker... I look forward to subscribing to the new ad-free group :) No, HTML is protected by the same copyright laws that software is. You are not free to do what you want to HTML as it is not given to you under some public domain licence. Installing a crack modifies the program code which is just like modifying the HTML of a web page. No need to split hairs here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chsoriano Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 How are new subscriptions going to be handled? I have a subscription but it doesn't expire until August. If I pay for another year (at tier 2), am I going to have to wait until August until the ad-free subscription kicks in? Would there be a way to upgrade without letting the current subscription fees already paid go to waste? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vice Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 You have to remember language is fluid and constantly in change. 200 years ago Piracy meant theft on the high seas and now it also means digital theft. Language changes. I can think of countless terms that meant one thing in the past and means another now. It doesn't make the new meaning wrong because it differs. That is how language works. It updates itself to reflect society at that time.No, HTML is protected by the same copyright laws that software is. You are not free to do what you want to HTML as it is not given to you under some public domain licence. Installing a crack modifies the program code which is just like modifying the HTML of a web page. No need to split hairs here... Your not really modifying it though you are just choosing to not process parts of it that retrieve content from Ad serving domains. Like choosing not to read words in a book. That isn't piracy. And technically the HTML pages are just plain Code, however your Browser chooses to interoperate that code and how its renderer may be modified in-memory by 3rd party plugins doesn't mean you are modifying the HTML itself ergo no modifications are made. The HTML pages themselves are not modified nor are modified versions ever saved or distributed. The key words here being never modified at all in any shape or form simply the renderer of the browser is manipulated to ignore parts of the code and render other things in the place of other parts (Again without modification of the actual HTML code). The most important thing to remember is. You cant steal something that is being given to you for Free. We as users do not pay for this content it's completely 100% free (And generated by us may I add). It is the Advertising companies that Pay Neowin. The Contract between the Advertisers and Neowin is a separate entity to users viewing the Content on the Neowin servers. No agreements, no Terms of Service for simply viewing the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Symons Veteran Posted March 25, 2009 Veteran Share Posted March 25, 2009 Also keep in mind Neowin has to pay us pesky news posters :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangbang023 Veteran Posted March 25, 2009 Veteran Share Posted March 25, 2009 How are new subscriptions going to be handled? I have a subscription but it doesn't expire until August. If I pay for another year (at tier 2), am I going to have to wait until August until the ad-free subscription kicks in? Would there be a way to upgrade without letting the current subscription fees already paid go to waste? I believe the plans are to offer an upgrade, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwarren Veteran Posted March 25, 2009 Veteran Share Posted March 25, 2009 The three tiers should instead be,Subscriber Basic Subscriber Premium Subscriber Ultimate :p We'd have to add N versions for Europe too :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+shift. MVC Posted March 25, 2009 MVC Share Posted March 25, 2009 You forgot Subscriber Home Basic, Home Premium, Business and Enterprise. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis W. Veteran Posted March 25, 2009 Veteran Share Posted March 25, 2009 We'd have to add N versions for Europe too :p And while we're at it, Starter Edition for countries with 56k connections and a K version for Korea. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman273 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 We'd have to add N versions for Europe too :p So is the Linux version the one that just uses an adblocker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleNeutrino Veteran Posted March 25, 2009 Veteran Share Posted March 25, 2009 why is it that anytime there is an announcement someone finds a reason to fight about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitebread Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 And while we're at it, Starter Edition for countries with 56k connections and a K version for Korea. ;)Don't forget about an Embedded version! Or PE. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad_onion Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 sigh, i've been waiting so long....... i thought it was going to happen today, losing the will to live ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srugie Veteran Posted March 25, 2009 Veteran Share Posted March 25, 2009 Also keep in mind Neowin has to pay us pesky news posters :p Hehe. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d4v1d05 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 You have to remember language is fluid and constantly in change. 200 years ago Piracy meant theft on the high seas and now it also means digital theft. Language changes. I can think of countless terms that meant one thing in the past and means another now. It doesn't make the new meaning wrong because it differs. That is how language works. It updates itself to reflect society at that time.No, HTML is protected by the same copyright laws that software is. You are not free to do what you want to HTML as it is not given to you under some public domain licence. Installing a crack modifies the program code which is just like modifying the HTML of a web page. No need to split hairs here... Ok, so let's say I modify my hosts file to send requests to pagead2.googlesyndication.com to 127.0.0.1 instead of the NS entry for that domain. By doing this, I am essentially blocking adverts hosted by google from appearing on the website. By your definition, in doing this, I am actually committing piracy (copyright theft?) which means that I am stealing someone's copyright by not requesting the adverts? This makes no sense... It's like buy one get one free at a supermarket, if you refuse the free one, you're not going to be accused of shoplifting or theft are you? Never mind, you keep it in your precious little mind that this is copyright theft... And NO, I don't use ad blocking software, or host-based ad blocking, I just get ads as they are, hence looking forward to the last of the intellitxt adverts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Sounds cool :) I'm considering subscribing but until I sort out my PayPal account have to wait, but will do something about it in the immediate future though :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted March 25, 2009 MVC Share Posted March 25, 2009 Ok, so let's say I modify my hosts file to send requests to pagead2.googlesyndication.com to 127.0.0.1 instead of the NS entry for that domain. By doing this, I am essentially blocking adverts hosted by google from appearing on the website. By your definition, in doing this, I am actually committing piracy (copyright theft?) which means that I am stealing someone's copyright by not requesting the adverts? This makes no sense... It's like buy one get one free at a supermarket, if you refuse the free one, you're not going to be accused of shoplifting or theft are you?Never mind, you keep it in your precious little mind that this is copyright theft... And NO, I don't use ad blocking software, or host-based ad blocking, I just get ads as they are, hence looking forward to the last of the intellitxt adverts! You're mixing apples and oranges here... In the Supermarket you're not committing theft because although you're turning down the free item you are still paying for the item you do accept... Also, copyright material is not given to you to own when you access or pay for it, unlike a physical good. So just because you download the text of a website you're not free to do whatever you want with it, much like you are with a pack of hot dogs. I can't buy a copy of the New York Times and start publishing my own copy of it with all the text they put into it just because I paid for it. In order to get the legal right to modify the text I have to create something substantially different that can be classified as a derivative work. All of this is out of context, I think. By modifying a website's code soley to remove ads you are stealing, and thus a pirate. You are robbing the site of its revenue stream that it is using to provide you the content. In essence, you are walking into the theater to enjoy the movie without paying for your ticket. That doesn't matter if you pay for the ticket out of your pocket or the bank down the street does because you opened an account. The digital form of that theft is referred to as piracy. Just because something can be easily done doesn't make it legal. You can easily dump all your garbage on someone's property in the area where you live and most likely not get caught, but that doesn't mean it isn't a violation of public dumping laws. I never said you use Ad Blocking software, and I don't care for the most part, but it is still piracy. As, from the definition I linked to earlier, which is from an accepted Dictionary; The American Heritage Dictionary, digital theft is piracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurkChris Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 sigh, i've been waiting so long....... i thought it was going to happen today, losing the will to live ;) Shouldt be to long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrChainsaw Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Who will be the first Subscriber2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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