[Feedback needed] Atlas, the next version of Neowin

[gigapixels Veteran]

Overall, it's looking very nice! Much more efficient use of the available space...

One thing bothering me though - the rounded corners are only supported by Firefox, whereas IE users will get the non-rounded corners? Argh! Neowin making me switch to IE for browsing purposes? I suppose there's no need to be too dramatic, as long as it's not too difficult to revert to the non-rounded through some simple CSS tweaks!

Apologies if this was mentioned already, but I might've missed it when quickly skimming through the 9 pages.

You can always use Stylish to apply any tweaks you'd like. I'm sure the devs wouldn't mind telling you what to change to remove the rounded corners.

[Mainer82]

All in all, it's kind of ironic they haven't recognized that technology has moved forward and everyone either has a widescreen monitor or a high res 4:3 monitor, you know since they're doing a solo crusade to force some browser to ugprade to a work in progress standard.

after all the people who don't use a high res 4:3 monitor or wide screen monitor could use one of the low res device(i.e. mobile) layouts.

Not everyone that has a wide screen monitor browses with the browser maximized; I don't. I have Fx open about 3/4 of the way; the remaining portion is either for messenger or yahoo widgets. To me, it seems like a waste of screen real estate to browse maximized.

[HawkMan]

at that size the site could still be 50% wider and it still would have massive borders.

[DrCheese]

We're not denying anyone the option of increasing the width of the site via Stylish or a custom CSS file of any sort. What we are saying is that the site does not operate as designed if we offer it.

We don't want to offer options that make the site work in ways we did not intend. If users want to have the width increased, they can do a simple CSS file with the contents #container { width: 100%; }, and be done with it. Otherwise, we have to put the code in to offer a feature which, in our opinion, breaks the site, and requires a lot more support because of it.

Personally, I think that's perfectly reasonable.

I don't understand tho, you guys tried this with the last refresh and got a ton of bad feedback about it. It doesn't make any sense for force it again especially as your *still* getting a ton of bad feedback about it. I think those giving feedback understand *why* you want to do it, but at the same time it's kinda fail to just shun off the feedback in favour of the "vision"

[Timan Veteran]

I don't understand tho, you guys tried this with the last refresh and got a ton of bad feedback about it. It doesn't make any sense for force it again especially as your *still* getting a ton of bad feedback about it. I think those giving feedback understand *why* you want to do it, but at the same time it's kinda fail to just shun off the feedback in favour of the "vision"

You do know the current site is a fixed width by default. You have to know WHAT button to click to make it semi fluid/larger width.

(though I agree about the white bg helping it feel wider...)

cnn.com

bbc.co.uk

= Fixed width,

Also, here is the site at a fluid width.

http://qkpic.com/e1e9e

Edited September 30, 2009 by Timan

[DrCheese]

you do know the current site is a fixed width by default. You have to know WHAT button to click to make it semi fluid/larger width.

yes... you put that it after the feedback last time and it's worked fine so far. Removing it leads to the dislike seen in this thread.

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

I don't understand tho, you guys tried this with the last refresh and got a ton of bad feedback about it. It doesn't make any sense for force it again especially as your *still* getting a ton of bad feedback about it. I think those giving feedback understand *why* you want to do it, but at the same time it's kinda fail to just shun off the feedback in favour of the "vision"

Don't forget the views of the silent majority.

[Rudy]

Most news sites (tech and non tech) have fixed width. It allows them to control the layout better and makes it a lot easier for the web developers

[Lewism]

Also, here is the site at a fluid width.

http://qkpic.com/e1e9e

Nice poll lol.

[OrangesOfCourse]

Design looks great! Can't wait to use it.

The font in the screen shot that Timan posted (fluid width) seems to work much better than the font in the original screen shot. I actually like the squared design better than the rounded (on Fx) and will use stylish to make it so. I also don't have any problems with the fixed design as i used Fx in a windowed mode.

Awesome work guys!

[Ji@nBing]

Also, here is the site at a fluid width.

http://qkpic.com/e1e9e

Soooooo much better with it using the whole screen.

[Snowl]

I prefer it fluid, but the thing at the top (nooby, dooby doo) looks really wierd.

and lol @ poll (:

[Phantom Helix]

I prefer it fluid, but the thing at the top (nooby, dooby doo) looks really wierd.

and lol @ poll (:

That bar at the top is only seen by mods and admins

[null_]

That bar at the top is only seen by mods and admins

I think they meant the headline image where it says "nooby, dooby doo".

[Tech-nerd]

just wondering where the software news section is now, the one which shows new software releases.

we just need to get used to it.

[Vice]

Having a button to expand the sides width would be nice on the new theme. I just tried it on the current theme and it looks a lot nicer on my large displays.

[Lee G. Veteran]

Having a button to expand the sides width would be nice on the new theme. I just tried it on the current theme and it looks a lot nicer on my large displays.

Yeah, I agree with this (Y)

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

It's annoying that the site isn't a fluid width, but the design just doesn't lend itself to it.

So yeah, there's lots of wasted space, but that can't really be avoided.

[Calum Veteran]

All in all, it's kind of ironic they haven't recognized that technology has moved forward and everyone either has a widescreen monitor or a high res 4:3 monitor, you know since they're doing a solo crusade to force some browser to ugprade to a work in progress standard.

after all the people who don't use a high res 4:3 monitor or widescreen monitor could use one of the low res device(i.e. mobile) layouts.

So you complain that Neowin disadvantage one type of user by giving them exactly the same experience as all other types of user, but you then suggest that they actually disadvantage a type of user by giving them a worse experience (the mobile skin). I see your logic... I see it, but it's not logical. At least with this fixed-width layout all users are getting the same Neowin experience - no one is getting discriminated against and no one is becoming disadvantaged (you can't call 'extra space at the sides' disadvantaging users when you suggested that some users be given the mobile skin just because they can't afford or do not want a larger monitor...)

It's obvious that you just can't please everyone. Just because larger monitors are now fairly popular amongst the technology enthusiasts, it doesn't mean everybody wishes to maximise their browser window and have it cover the whole screen. I actually see no point in that, especially when most sites tend to be the same sort of width (the width of the current Neowin front page), so surely Neowin can't be the only website that annoys you people by not being fluid? You must get annoyed by a lot of websites... I'm going to get a much larger monitor soon and I am extremely happy that the Neowin developers have designed this new theme with this width in mind because it means I will not have to have my browser window too big and I can have my buddy list, Facebook widget and Zune software (in mini-mode) showing at all times.

This is just my opinion by the way, but I feel strongly about this - I'm getting a bigger monitor so I can do more at once and fit more on the screen, not so I can pointlessly maximise my browser window when I can currently do that just fine, and view all websites perfectly, on my 17" laptop screen...

[SMELTN]

See I like how InsanelyMac does it. They have the option up top of doing fixed or fullscreen. I am lost as to how a "tech site" wouldn't allow for widescreen monitors.

Here is InsanelyMac.

http://www.insanelymac.com/

[Calum Veteran]

See I like how InsanelyMac does it. They have the option up top of doing fixed or fullscreen. I am lost as to how a "tech site" wouldn't allow for widescreen monitors.

Here is InsanelyMac.

http://www.insanelymac.com/

In my opinion that looks awful when using the "full screen" version on my 22" monitor at work (so much white space, logos/search bar positioned horribly), but looks very nice when using the "fixed width" version, on this 22" monitor, with space at the sides. Yes, it's nice they offer that choice because, in my opinion, choice is always a benefit, however, that's because it seems to work for their site (to some extent... it still looks horrible in my opinion). Looking at Timan's screenshot in one of his latest posts, it looks like it wouldn't work for Atlas - loads of white space, the promo image changer only covering half of that section etc.

I'm not speaking for any developers here, but I doubt Timan's screenshot is how the developers would like Neowin to look.

[Vice]

So you complain that Neowin disadvantage one type of user by giving them exactly the same experience as all other types of user, but you then suggest that they actually disadvantage a type of user by giving them a worse experience (the mobile skin). I see your logic... I see it, but it's not logical. At least with this fixed-width layout all users are getting the same Neowin experience - no one is getting discriminated against and no one is becoming disadvantaged (you can't call 'extra space at the sides' disadvantaging users when you suggested that some users be given the mobile skin just because they can't afford or do not want a larger monitor...)

It's obvious that you just can't please everyone. Just because larger monitors are now fairly popular amongst the technology enthusiasts, it doesn't mean everybody wishes to maximise their browser window and have it cover the whole screen. I actually see no point in that, especially when most sites tend to be the same sort of width (the width of the current Neowin front page), so surely Neowin can't be the only website that annoys you people by not being fluid? You must get annoyed by a lot of websites... I'm going to get a much larger monitor soon and I am extremely happy that the Neowin developers have designed this new theme with this width in mind because it means I will not have to have my browser window too big and I can have my buddy list, Facebook widget and Zune software (in mini-mode) showing at all times.

This is just my opinion by the way, but I feel strongly about this - I'm getting a bigger monitor so I can do more at once and fit more on the screen, not so I can pointlessly maximise my browser window when I can currently do that just fine, and view all websites perfectly, on my 17" laptop screen...

Just include a button for it like there is now and everyone is happy.

[Kushan]

Noooooooooooooooo! Why do people insist on having all that wasted space on the left and right hand sides? I have a widescreen monitor, I dare say quite a few people here do as well, so let us use that space!

Remember, people read websites in an "F" shape, not a "T" shape =\

I understand the reasonings behind making it easier for the developers, but what about the users? They should be your primary focus.

[Calum Veteran]

Just include a button for it like there is now and everyone is happy.

As I have said, choice is always a benefit, but I'm not a Neowin developer so I don't know the ins and outs of the design :p I doubt they would deny users the choice if Atlas looked decent in a fluid manner, but as The_Decryptor pointed out, the design just doesn't lend itself to that, judging by Timan's screenshot. This might not be the reason, but if you'd worked hard designing something which looks really nice, would you like to see it used in a way which, in your opinion, breaks it? :/

[Vice]

but if you'd worked hard designing something which looks really nice, would you like to see it used in a way which, in your opinion, breaks it? :/

I wouldn't care how people use it as long as they are happy. And the users do want the choice myself included. Just add the button there and the discussion is over. And its not impossible to do.