Sony drops Linux Support

[Elessar]

Nobody can defend this move. Sony just took away a large feature that a lot of people were using (remember all those PS3 clusters?). The consumer gets no benefit out of this move.

What I don't understand is why they even bothered in the first place if it's such a big security risk. Surely they would've learnt from the PS2 Linux system. That makes 8 years they've been supporting Linux on their consoles, and now they decide it's a security risk. Seems odd to me.

The PS3 clusters likely haven't updated since they were taken out of the box. If it ain't broke, why fix it? That's the mentality the institutes are likely taking with the PS3s and using them as super computers/clusters. The consumer benefits from this A LOT though. The longer the PS3 remains unable to easily play pirated games, the longer developers will see this PS3 as a viable platform. A lot of devs are JUST now starting to come around to the PS3. Piracy won't help the matter. The 360 is secure in the fact that it's always going to be one of the lead platforms. It had a year head start so naturally developers are going to make games for it. Just look at the PSP that people have been using as an example for a while now. Now that there are 50+ million units out there, devs started coming back to the platform back in 2009.

What makes me laugh the most is that people say 'just patch the security risk', blah blah blah. Patching can lead to other potential exploits in the FW. Why waste time continuously focusing on that one section of the firmware when you can just completely remove it? Sony are well within their rights to do so, we've all read the ToS...or at least we all should have before agreeing to it and logging into PSN. Sony has given people an option; update your FW and play online, or keep Linux installed and use your PS3 as a computer (a sluggish one at that). Son'y haven't technically taken anything away...they are simply making you choose now. And considering their reasoning is because of a security risk, I'm fairly confident it would hold up in court. One exploit is all it would take for someone to gain access to PSN and as a result, peoples' CC info, personal info, etc.

[Elessar]

There an article on itworld that goes to say that the motivation behind this move could very well be killing PS3 supercomputing rather than preventing piracy.

If Sony does indeed still lose money for every PS3 sold, people buying large amounts of units for clustering while not spending anything on software doesn't sound like a good deal for them :unsure:

You can't blame Sony for wanting to do that...then again, we're probably talking 1,000's of units that are being used as clusters versus the 33+ million that are likely being using for gaming...

[Southern Patriot]

Sony haven't technically taken anything away...they are simply making you choose now.

OK, so I sell you a car and a motorcycle. Two years later, I come to your house and demand that you give me back one or the other, but I'm not going to give you any of your money back. Did I just take something away from you?

And considering their reasoning is because of a security risk, I'm fairly confident it would hold up in court. One exploit is all it would take for someone to gain access to PSN and as a result, peoples' CC info, personal info, etc.

It's NOT about a security risk, it's about the risk of people being able to (eventually) pirate PS3 games. Where are you getting this idea that there is a security risk involved?

[Southern Patriot]

I was just looking at the download page for the update and noticed that Sony makes an outright false statement there:

Do not download or install updates using data other than official update data provided online or on disc media by Sony Computer Entertainment, and do not download or install updates by methods other than those described in the system documentation or on this website. If you download or install update data from another source, by another method, or with a PS3? system that has been altered or modified in any way, the PS3? system may not operate properly and may not be able to install the official update data. Any of these actions may void the PS3? system warranty and affect your ability to obtain warranty services and repair services from Sony Computer Entertainment.

This update is for PS3? systems purchased in North America. DO NOT update your PS3? system through this website if you purchased your system outside North America. There is no guarantee of proper operation with other models sold outside North America.

The system software and system software updates installed on your system are subject to a limited license from Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. Refer to http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula for details.

If your PS3? system software version is 3.21 (or later), you do not need to perform this update. To check the version of your system software, go to (Settings) > > (System Settings) > [system Information]. The information is shown in the [system Software] field.

This system software update includes all features contained in previous versions.

To play some software or use some features, you may first need to update the system software.

Depending on your PS3? system software version, the screen images and icons that are used on this website may differ from those that appear on your system.

[bob_c_b]

These threads always show just how poorly people understand the concept of an analogy.

As to the actual topic, totally don't care, like 99.995% of the world.

[PL_ Veteran]

+1 i read somewhere else that the SPU that uses the Other OS feature is the same one use that the playstation moves uses, that's why they need to disable the Other OS feature. I read it here... I can't link to the actual article (at work :( )

http://www.n4g.com/News-502610.aspx

makes sense i guess...

First off you don't run the Other OS while running a game. Second, I'm meant to believe that Sony lied about PS3 only using 7 out of 8 cores, and the 8th core was always used for Other OS? Why would they lie like that?

[0nyX]

The fact that an individual (who is a customer) not only has no problem being deprived from a feature he paid for but also actually supporting a move like that and "squeezing" his mind to come up with every possible argument to support this move, is beyond me.

I believe this right there is the borderline between consumer and blind fanb*y.

[Southern Patriot]

These threads always show just how poorly people understand the concept of an analogy.

Were you referring to my post above? If so, how is it a bad analogy?

[Sikh]

The fact that an individual (who is a customer) not only has no problem being deprived from a feature he paid for but also actually supporting a move like that and "squeezing" his mind to come up with every possible argument to support this move, is beyond me.

I believe this right there is the borderline between consumer and blind fanb*y.

Thank you. But again there too blind to see it. Must be nice not to believe the truth whenever you please o_0

[Growled Member]

Yellowdog has said not to update to the latest firmware if you want to continue to use Linux:

http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-announce/2010-April/000223.html

[Southern Patriot]

Yellowdog has said not to update to the latest firmware if you want to continue to use Linux:

http://lists.fixstars.com/pipermail/yellowdog-announce/2010-April/000223.html

Well, Duh!!! LOL

[Hedon]

As to the actual topic, totally don't care, like 99.995% of the world.

You polled all 30 million PS3 owners?

[mokthraka]

Source

Get out clause, we all agree'd to

you agreed to that after you bought it. after they said you could use linux. not before.

[AbandonedTrolley]

you agreed to that after you bought it. after they said you could use linux. not before.

Yes which means you could have taken it back for a refund at the time after sale, not now. Sony are certainly on some pretty dodgy ground here, as I said earlier, personally I don't get affected. But I can understand the upset for those that have been. Bad move full stop.

[bob_c_b]

Were you referring to my post above? If so, how is it a bad analogy?

Not just yours, the thread is packed poor logic and bad analogies.

You polled all 30 million PS3 owners?

Yes, we all meet on Sundays, did you not get the notice?

[ichi]

You can't blame Sony for wanting to do that...then again, we're probably talking 1,000's of units that are being used as clusters versus the 33+ million that are likely being using for gaming...

The thing is you actually can. They kindly used all the supercomputing hype as PR back in the day. They could have removed it the same way they removed backwards compatibility, yet they didn't until the slim. It sure was cool to brag about the PS3 clusters until it hurt their pockets.

Well though luck, now they are screwing everyone with their retroactive removal of features and getting both bad PR and a potential lawsuit.

I don't know (nor do I think anyone knows) the number of PS3 being used in clusters, but the article links another article about the US military alone buying 2200 units on top of the 336 they already had. If we were talking about small numbers Sony surely wouldn't be concerned, would they?

Regading the "clusters being safe as long as they don't update", well, they are not. Clusters are made to be eventually expanded, and some hardware needs to be replaced sooner or later. Sony cutting the availability of new units with OtherOS will effectively kill PS3 clustering.

Heck, they could have made a decent deal selling PS3 with OtherOS but without bluray to business/education/governments. Even if those had the same price as current units they would still make a damn cheap clustering solution.

[Max_Payne_UK]

The thing is you actually can. They kindly used all the supercomputing hype as PR back in the day. They could have removed it the same way they removed backwards compatibility, yet they didn't until the slim. It sure was cool to brag about the PS3 clusters until it hurt their pockets.

Well though luck, now they are screwing everyone with their retroactive removal of features and getting both bad PR and a potential lawsuit.

I don't know (nor do I think anyone knows) the number of PS3 being used in clusters, but the article links another article about the US military alone buying 2200 units on top of the 336 they already had. If we were talking about small numbers Sony surely wouldn't be concerned, would they?

Regading the "clusters being safe as long as they don't update", well, they are not. Clusters are made to be eventually expanded, and some hardware needs to be replaced sooner or later. Sony cutting the availability of new units with OtherOS will effectively kill PS3 clustering.

Heck, they could have made a decent deal selling PS3 with OtherOS but without bluray to business/education/governments. Even if those had the same price as current units they would still make a damn cheap clustering solution.

How do you know that Sony haven't struck up a deal with the big companies that have invested for these reasons rather than gaming? I guess the simple answer is you/we/I don't know.

[soniqstylz]

The thing is you actually can. They kindly used all the supercomputing hype as PR back in the day. They could have removed it the same way they removed backwards compatibility, yet they didn't until the slim. It sure was cool to brag about the PS3 clusters until it hurt their pockets.

Well though luck, now they are screwing everyone with their retroactive removal of features and getting both bad PR and a potential lawsuit.

I don't know (nor do I think anyone knows) the number of PS3 being used in clusters, but the article links another article about the US military alone buying 2200 units on top of the 336 they already had. If we were talking about small numbers Sony surely wouldn't be concerned, would they?

Regading the "clusters being safe as long as they don't update", well, they are not. Clusters are made to be eventually expanded, and some hardware needs to be replaced sooner or later. Sony cutting the availability of new units with OtherOS will effectively kill PS3 clustering.

Heck, they could have made a decent deal selling PS3 with OtherOS but without bluray to business/education/governments. Even if those had the same price as current units they would still make a damn cheap clustering solution.

You can still probably get IBM to build full-on cell-based Linux PC's.

edit: Wait, so the gov't got 2,200 more PS3's recently to use in a cluster? With the slim's not supporting Linux, where did they come from? Did Sony specially build them? If so, your point is moot.

[bob_c_b]

The thing is you actually can. They kindly used all the supercomputing hype as PR back in the day. They could have removed it the same way they removed backwards compatibility, yet they didn't until the slim. It sure was cool to brag about the PS3 clusters until it hurt their pockets.

I mentioned earlier that about .005% of the market cared about this, that is the same percentage who bought a PS3 based on "supercomputing hype". And I'm not really sure how PS3 clusters hurt their pockets?

I'm not pointing to anyone specifically, but I'd be curious how many truly outraged PS3 owners are in this thread vs the usual crowd who likes to pile on anything negative about Sony?

[AbandonedTrolley]

I mentioned earlier that about .005% of the market cared about this, that is the same percentage who bought a PS3 based on "supercomputing hype". And I'm not really sure how PS3 clusters hurt their pockets?

The console itself was sold at quite a hefty loss in the beginning, with the difference coming from games and peripherals purchased, those clusters were effectively left as bog standard PS3s, no games bought, no extra controllers. Therefore Sony made a loss on every machine that was sitting in a cluster.

[bob_c_b]

The console itself was sold at quite a hefty loss in the beginning, with the difference coming from games and peripherals purchased, those clusters were effectively left as bog standard PS3s, no games bought, no extra controllers. Therefore Sony made a loss on every machine that was sitting in a cluster.

So it didn't help their profits but it didn't hurt more than all those who bought them as BD players (ignoring any realized profits from BD licensing fees). It's a stretch to say this is why they removed Linux.

[AbandonedTrolley]

So it didn't help their profits but it didn't hurt more than all those who bought them as BD players (ignoring any realized profits from BD licensing fees). It's a stretch to say this is why they removed Linux.

Oh I agree, as you say those that also bought them primarily as a BD player again would have not been helping Sonys gaming division turn over a profit. As I've already said, whilst it doesn't affect me, I still think it's a pretty bad decision by Sony to pull this one.

[bob_c_b]

Oh I agree, as you say those that also bought them primarily as a BD player again would have not been helping Sonys gaming division turn over a profit. As I've already said, whilst it doesn't affect me, I still think it's a pretty bad decision by Sony to pull this one.

I don't really think it's a great decision, but I don't think it is the major issue some are making it out to be. As if now, your PS3 is useless without this one feature that kind of worked half-assed at best (since you could not direct access the GPU functions). If you judge by this thread, everyone has to sell their PS3 now.

[Max_Payne_UK]

Not sure how truthful this article is but I read it none the less and agreed with it. I don't think anybody has a leg to stand on if they plan on taking Sony to court.

Recently Sony removed the capability to use Other OS functionality in the PS3. This action was taken by Sony in order to preemptively block George Hotz?s PS3 hack. Apparently, some consumers are ?thinking? about suing Sony for removing this functionality. Many will be wondering if this suit will hold in court.

George Hotz decided to release his PS3 hack/exploit out onto the Internet not that long ago. A few weeks later, Sony decided to remove Other OS feature, which allows you to install Linux onto the PS3.

The exploit/hack created by Hotz requires Linux to be installed. According to Sony, the company made the decision to remove this feature in order to improve system security.

Apparently a few folks are attempting to file a lawsuit against Sony. Currently, there is no actual suit as it has been all talk up to this point.

This seems like an interesting situation so I decided to reach out to a friend that practices IT patent law to get his take on the matter.

He pointed a few interesting things out that software developers usually disclaim in order to CYA (cover-your-ass).

Software License Agreement you agreed to ?

The system software license agreement that everyone agrees to that utilize the PS3 is stated below:

SYSTEM SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT (Version 1.3) FOR THE PlayStation?3 SYSTEM

From time to time, SCE may provide updates, upgrades or services to your PS3TM system to ensure it is functioning properly in accordance with SCE guidelines or provide you with new offerings. Some services may be provided automatically without notice when you are online, and others may be available to you through SCE?s online network or authorized channels. Without limitation, services may include the provision of the latest update or download of new release that may include security patches, and new or revised settings and features which may prevent access to pirated games, or use of unauthorized hardware or software in connection with the PS3TM system. Some services may change your current settings, cause a loss of data or content, or cause some loss of functionality.

By using or accessing the System Software, you agree to be bound by all current terms of this Agreement.

I?ve highlighted the interesting parts that will be justification for the firmware 3.21 update everyone is talking about.

Apparently, this is a clear situation where a valid exploit for the PS3 has been released out onto the Internet. In turn Sony acted within its rights to update/revise features ?which may prevent access to pirated games, or use of unauthorized hardware or software? with the PS3.

False Advertisement argument ?

Despite the fact the Other OS was never advertised commercially, it was talked about and is referenced in the manual. However, Sony apparently did a bit of CYA here by always referring to the TOU (Terms of Use).

Sony?s TOU states:

SCE, at its sole discretion, may modify the terms of this Agreement at any time, including any terms in the PS3TM system documentation or manual, or at http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-license/index.html.

So basically Sony is openly disclaiming that the company can modify any documentation at any time as needed, including the PS3 manual and any reference to Other OS.

Bait and Switch argument ?

Judges are sensitive to the merits of accusing companies of ?baiting and switching.? The laws around bait advertising are clearly defined to protect consumers from companies that may ?trick? or advertise with the intention of being ingenious about its offerings at a future date.

Bait and switch arguments usually fly in situations where consumers end up with less or end up paying more than originally thought.

Bait and switch harkens back to the days of the shady used car salesman. Usually the salesmen would advertise a made up car at dirt cheap costs in order to get people into the store so the salesman could break the news that the vehicle was no longer available. Eventually through various shady financing tactics the salesmen would switch the consumer over to a more expensive vehicle.

Clearly this is not a case where Sony sold the PS3 with the preconceived plan of stripping away Other OS functionality. Sony will undoubtedly provide evidence showing that this was a reactionary move to improve security upon the PS3 exploit?s release.

Another argument Sony will most likely make is that removing the Other OS feature enhances the security of the PS3, thus removing functionality in exchange for a ?security improvement.?

In conclusion, from the facts on the table it seems like the lawsuit will most likely not hold up in court. Apparently, Sony has done a thorough job of CYA. However, as with any lawsuit, depending on the judge there is no way of knowing how things will turn out.

Even though not many people utilize the Other OS feature, its still sad that Sony had to resort to removing this neat functionality. Many PS3 owners apparently blame George Hotz for this turn of events. Hotz?s blog currently has over 3,000 comments with a majority of them urging him not to cause them any more trouble.

http://gamer.blorge.com/2010/04/04/legal-take-lawsuit-against-ps3-v3-21-does-not-hold-water-in-court/

[bob_c_b]

Not sure how truthful this article is but I read it none the less and agreed with it. I don't think anybody has a leg to stand on if they plan on taking Sony to court.

http://gamer.blorge.com/2010/04/04/legal-take-lawsuit-against-ps3-v3-21-does-not-hold-water-in-court/

How dare you bring reason and logic into this topic... :devil: Good read, thanks.