University Tells Student to Alter Religious Views

[Darth Laidher]

You don't get it. She will be HIRED BY A SCHOOL to be a consoler after graduation. She has NO RIGHT to voice her opinion when working with kids. What she does outside of school is her own business

What if a Gay student came into her office to talk about a problem. Her beliefs would not let her do her job effectively.

Oh really? Tell that to the hundreds of liberal professors around the country. They voice their views loud and clear in the classroom.

[nw2001]

Im just going to sit here and laugh, Just wait til she voices her opinion to the wrong gay kid and gets sued.:p

[azure.sapphire]

How can a University dictate to people what to think ? She should be free to THINK what she wants, everyone should be free to THINK what they want, as long as they don't go forcing people to think like them. This is one of our fundamental rights as Humans.

@brentaal,

People enter universities to acquire knowledge. FULL STOP. Changing views is a side effect and in no way it is a criterion to fail people.

People do not enter a university to get knowledge. Those would be called dropouts or life time learners. They enter school to get a degree and get a better chance of employment. This is why people get certification and graduate degree after they graduate. How many professional counselors do you see with a BS degree?

Second, if is not about her belief system, it is about her application of those beliefs. I don't think the university cares if she is Christian or believes that homosexuality is a sin. What they care about is her ability to disconcert her personal views from her professional. Shes does not seem to be able to make this leap in logic. It is a fairly fundamental critical thinking skill.

[DrunkenBeard]

Her beliefs would not let her do her job effectively.

This is not their call to make. She should be professional enough to not let her beliefs interfere with her work and any measure against her should be taken IF she obviously isn't capable of making a clear distinction betwteen the two. Howerver, if she can keep her beliefs of having an influence on how she handles her work, and can think in a pragmatic way then I don't see why she'd be punished. In any case, this is not the Uni's call to make.

@bluarash,

I incedently answered your post by answering Brandon's.

[Brandon]

Oh really? Tell that to the hundreds of liberal professors around the country. They voice their views loud and clear in the classroom.

Professor =/= someone working with a child who is having some sort of mental or emotional problem.

[brentaal]

@brentaal,

People enter universities to acquire knowledge. FULL STOP. Changing views is a side effect and in no way it is a criterion to fail people.

No, it is exactly the criteria to fail people on if their views make them unable to practice their profession objectively.

[Konstanov]

I don't think counselor's should be given the position to tell kids to alter the sexual identity because of their own personal beliefs one way or the other. If my daughter happens to be a lesbian later in life and she was told by the school counselor that she was going to hell unless she stop loving women, I would be outraged as a parent. I think the school doing this to her is preventing the abuse of countless children who would have to see her when confronted with their sexuality.

[nw2001]

This is not their call to make. She should be professional enough to not let her beliefs interfere with her work and any measure against her should be taken IF she obviously isn't capable of making a clear distinction betwteen the two. Howerver, if she can keep her beliefs of having an influence on how she handles her work, and can think in a pragmatic way then I don't see why she'd be punished. In any case, this is not the Uni's call to make.

Her job REQUIRES her to set aside bias like this, so yes it IS the uni's call, shes effectivley failing.

[azure.sapphire]

No they can't. That's a huge encroachment of your 1st amendment privs.

Most universities are not just state subsidized but receive massive federal grants.

I didn't say whether she was liberal or not. If you read what I stated then you would have noticed that I was referring to a different course but basing it on your argument. According to your argument the same conclusion could apply.

No, the analogy was appropriate. She would be dismissed because of her beliefs.

No, the argument is not the same because it is in a different context. Can you honestly tell me that when you were in graduate school that you had absolute freedom of speech (not freedom of thought)?

Why doesn't anyone ever bring up the black panthers? they spew hate all the time and without a doubt theres most likely some on university campus's right now but how many news stories we hear about them. Its ok for the black man to hate the white man but not the other way around.

There is a bit of a fundamental disconnect between the black panthers and a "white pride" organization.

[brentaal]

I've changed my opinion.

I now think it's perfectly fine to get a degree in geology while at the same time being a young Earthist.

[Darth Laidher]

No, the argument is not the same because it is in a different context. Can you honestly tell me that when you were in graduate school that you had absolute freedom of speech (not freedom of thought)?

There is a bit of a fundamental disconnect between the black panthers and a "white pride" organization.

No. The Black Panthers are racist. white pride organizations and the Black Panthers share one thing and that is racism, they want to see their race on top and so do the white pride organizations.One shouldn't be treated differently than the other.Same goes with this woman,If one group can voice their views then so should she be allowed. There are plenty of liberal professors out there that voice their views all the time so its fundamentally wrong to dismiss someone else's views just because you don't agree with them.

[HSoft]

People do not enter a university to get knowledge.

Seriously?

I can't believe you are even making that statement. It's way more than double facepalm.

[I am Reid]

What a load of tosh.

For example. If you enter a politicol science degree, you are saying that the university has every right to just dismiss you because you are not a liberal and the univerisities position/faculty are?

A highly doubt that would happen, because they may have differnt political views, but its still a view on politics. Thats what they are there for, and political science would be pretty stupid if their was only one accepted view point and I would think the schools would understand that and respect students differnt views. This is differnt because she is not there to express her religious views.

[Brandon]

No. The Black Panthers are racist. white pride organizations and the Black Panthers share one thing and that is racism, they want to see their race on top and so do the white pride organizations.One shouldn't be treated differently than the other.Same goes with this woman,If one group can voice their views then so should she be allowed. There are plenty of liberal professors out there that voice their views all the time so its fundamentally wrong to dismiss someone else's views just because you don't agree with them.

For the second time... SHE IS NOT A PROFESSOR She is going to be a consoler. AKA a psychiatrist of sorts.

[HSoft]

Professor =/= someone working with a child who is having some sort of mental or emotional problem.

You've just completely changed your arguement. Well done :rolleyes:

[+Fulcrum Subscriber¹]

A highly doubt that would happen, because they may have differnt political views, but its still a view on politics. Thats what they are there for, and political science would be pretty stupid if their was only one accepted view point and I would think the schools would understand that and respect students differnt views. This is differnt because she is not there to express her religious views.

What if she decides to become a Pastoral Counselor.

[Darth Laidher]

I'd probably be kicked out of the classroom to if I told a liberal professor I don't agree with his views.University is about learning not about social engineering,sadly universities have become one big social experiment.Liberal professors shouldn't voice their personal beliefs in the class room but they do all the time and its perfectly acceptable,hypocrisy is what most liberals are guilty of and I see it in this thread.

For the second time... SHE IS NOT A PROFESSOR She is going to be a consoler. AKA a psychiatrist of sorts.

No need to right big letters cool guy,It doesn't matter the university shouldn't cater to anyones beliefs that includes liberals.I'm not a liberal do I want a peace loving hippy counseling me? lol, yes I went there.

[seta-san]

it's a public school. They have absolutely NO RIGHT to tell her what to believe when it comes to religion. It's not their job to dictate to her what direction her career might take. It might be possible that she wants to work at a gay rehabilitation center. What you think about gay rehabilitation centers is irrelevant. It would be up to where she gets hired to determine if she is qualified for a position, not the college to prejudge her on her religous beliefs.

[HSoft]

A highly doubt that would happen, because they may have differnt political views, but its still a view on politics. Thats what they are there for, and political science would be pretty stupid if their was only one accepted view point and I would think the schools would understand that and respect students differnt views. This is differnt because she is not there to express her religious views.

The arguement is the same though, doesn't matter if it's politicol, religious or any other view. The university does not have the right to kick her out based on her views (unless those views break the law which in this case they clearly do not).

I think she's done the right thing by sueing the university and I think she'll probably win. The backlash from this however will mean that she will probably find it hard to get a job in that particular field.

[0sit0]

I'd probably be kicked out of the classroom to if I told a liberal professor I don't agree with his views.University is about learning not about social engineering,sadly universities have become one big social experiment.Liberal professors shouldn't voice their personal beliefs in the class room but they do all the time and its perfectly acceptable,hypocrisy is what most liberals are guilty of and I see it in this thread.

Let me guess... Conservative professors never do that :pinch:

[Darth Laidher]

Let me guess... Conservative professors never do that :pinch:

Conservative and professor do not mix the majority of professors are liberal.Universities in general are liberal.

[brentaal]

No need to right big letters cool guy,It doesn't matter the university shouldn't cater to anyones beliefs that includes liberals.I'm not a liberal do I want a peace loving hippy counseling me? lol, yes I went there.

I lol'd.

[seta-san]

Let me guess... Conservative professors never do that :pinch:

find a conservative professor in a college to indoctrinate students outside of economics class.

[nw2001]

I'd probably be kicked out of the classroom to if I told a liberal professor I don't agree with his views.University is about learning not about social engineering,sadly universities have become one big social experiment.Liberal professors shouldn't voice their personal beliefs in the class room but they do all the time and its perfectly acceptable,hypocrisy is what most liberals are guilty of and I see it in this thread.

No need to right big letters cool guy,It doesn't matter the university shouldn't cater to anyones beliefs that includes liberals.I'm not a liberal do I want a peace loving hippy counseling me? lol, yes I went there.

You're making a point with no real proof and no real point, She is not becoming a professor in the first place, she's becoming a counselor, It does not matter what her beliefs are, the problem is they shouldnt interfere with schooling/work especially in a job like this where its completely counterproductive.

[Brandon]

You've just completely changed your arguement. Well done :rolleyes:

What are you talking about? A professor is someone who teaches students. A counselor (which this woman is going to grad school to become) is someone who sits down with students during a one-on-one session to talk about their emotional problems.

There is nothing wrong with a liberal or conservative professor that teaches their opinions onto their class.

There is something wrong with someone who has prejudices against groups of people when they are dealing with them on a personal, emotional level.

I walked out of my required religion class twice. I couldn't stand hearing about it anymore and I felt I had better things to be doing than getting preached to.