win8 Windows 8 Start button isn't coming back, but there will be a tutorial

[Dot Matrix]

Wrong, the only thing that should die is metro, it stinks, at least when used on desktop. Furthermore, any ms employee who supported forcing this turd onto desktop users ought to be fired. Perhaps when win8 flops.....

I'm kinda curious as to why Microsoft hasn't sunk yet from using Windows 8....

Oh, wait. ;)

[Rickkins]

I'm pretty sure I will be asked to downgrade a lot of "Windows 8" machines, and, unlike vista, this time I will say "wise decision, be sure to keep it updated though"

Yups...same here. I've already warned everyone I know that win8 is a turd. And if there is a dramatic change before it launches....hey no prob, I have no trouble admitting when I'm wrong.

[Rickkins]

I'm kinda curious as to why Microsoft hasn't sunk yet from using Windows 8....

Oh, wait. ;)

Ah yes, a variation of the strawman routine...

Problem is, I never said they would sink, so nice try.(not really) We can assume that ms will make plenty off forced sales via pre-loaded machines. They'll even use the numbers to spin a success story, just like they did with vista. However, as I like to say, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

[Calum Veteran]

Wrong, the only thing that should die is metro, it stinks, at least when used on desktop. Furthermore, any ms employee who supported forcing this turd onto desktop users ought to be fired. Perhaps when win8 flops.....

That's funny because I've enjoyed using the Metro experience on a desktop PC.

[Rickkins]

That's funny because I've enjoyed using the Metro experience on a desktop PC.

I honestly believe that.

[Dot Matrix]

Ah yes, a variation of the strawman routine...

Problem is, I never said they would sink, so nice try.(not really) We can assume that ms will make plenty off forced sales via pre-loaded machines. They'll even use the numbers to spin a success story, just like they did with vista. However, as I like to say, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

You're not getting what I was saying. Microsoft has deployed Windows 8 across their campus. If they can use it day in and day out to carry out operations, so can you.

[Rickkins]

You're not getting what I was saying. Microsoft has deployed Windows 8 across their campus. If they can use it day in and day out to carry out operations, so can you.

It's not like they have any choice now do they..?? You have supplied a perfect example of absolutely nothing. I can't even conceive of how or what you thought this would prove...

[jakem1]

I'm well aware. I'm not arguing against Windows 8, but against the hopes for a Metro-only future. As I see it, Metro and the desktop will have to coexist for a long time yet, meaning there's no escape from the schizophrenic personality on display with Windows 8. Do you disagree?

Yes, I agree that the desktop will remain although I don't see the two interfaces as schizophrenic. The experience of switching between the two interfaces may be initially jarring to some people (primarily because the 3D look of Aero doesn't match the flatter look of Metro) but I hope that the next preview will include a new desktop skin to replace Aero that integrates better with Metro. I firmly believe that that will remove most of the current complaints about the UI.

[xWhiplash]

One thing people are forgetting here is that when people buy a computer that comes with Windows 8, a majority of the people are forced to learn a new way of using an operating system, and memorize two different operating systems.

Why do I say this? At work, they will still be on Windows XP, Vista or 7 probably. Most people do not want to go home to a completely different thing.

I have seen this before when somebody has a Windows XP computer at work, and a Windows 7 computer at home. Sometimes they try to do things the wrong way on each system.

THIS is why the 9x UI is perfect for desktops and non-touch enabled laptops. I have asked a few people about Windows 8 and telling them how to use it, this is one of the most common concerns that they say. "I use Windows XP at work and I do not want to get confused with two different designs. Now can I have my old Windows back?"

IMO, since we are not getting a proper "Desktop edition", Microsoft should still sell Windows 7 for years to come. Next to XP SP2+, it is the perfect operating system for desktops and non-touch enabled laptops.

So those of you that think the common consumer will be more happy with Windows 8 and Metro need to realize that the majority still use XP/7 at work. Wouldn't that confuse some people? As I said before, I have seen it several times from just XP and 7. I cannot imagine what will happen when 8 comes out and people are forced to use it (their laptop died and need to get a new one that only comes with 8).

All of this would be a million times better if they just included an option to customize these things. I want to turn off the "hot corners" and enable the Button. While I hate Metro on the desktop, I would be happy with Windows 8 if Microsoft included just these two things. I would not care if the start BUTTON would take me to the same Metro Start Screen. I really hate hot corners on ANY os. I never enabled it on my mac, because when I did and I was using Photoshop, I would randomly hit these hot spots and it would break my concentration.

[Dot Matrix]

It's not like they have any choice now do they..?? You have supplied a perfect example of absolutely nothing. I can't even conceive of how or what you thought this would prove...

Ok, then tell my *why* Windows 8 is a "turd" (you sound 2 years old here saying that, honestly). If anything you come across as bitter. But why? No one is forcing you to use the fullscreen apps, the desktop is still there, and any novice Windows user is easily going to adapt, because the Start Screen still retains all the functions of the Start Menu. You people complain of broken work flow, but if you've adapted to using the search feature of the Windows Vista/7 Start Menu, then there is none. Search what you're looking for and be done. Hell, you don't even have to do that, simply go to the desktop and pin all your apps there. It's not hard to do.

[Dot Matrix]

Why do I say this? At work, they will still be on Windows XP, Vista or 7 probably. Most people do not want to go home to a completely different thing.

I've heard the exact opposite. Most people that still use XP at work, are pushing for Windows 7 because they've used it at home.

[Vice]

well...tell that to Apple ;) because every single iPhone/iPad add is a tutorial in disguise. And you know how bad that turned out.

Showing the product in an advertisement. How dare they.

[jakem1]

i think people are missing the point here.... no one cares about a stupid button , its the start "menu" that we want back not this silly start "screen"....

You obviously didn't read the thread title ;)

[Rickkins]

Ok, then tell my *why* Windows 8 is a "turd" (you sound 2 years old here saying that, honestly). If anything you come across as bitter.

Bitter, no. Annoyed, yes. My main computer use is a desktop pc. I have a laptop and tablet as well. The only device metro would be any use whatsoever, is the tablet, which I use least of all. Indeed, it is an almost useless device, imho. Win8, as it stands now is a bastardized frankenstein of an os which serves no one except ms itself.

The bottom line is there is absolutely no need for this metro **** on a desktop. Win7 is a rock solid desktop os, which should have been built upon instead of ripped apart. The overall experience for the average user would clearly decline by switching to 8. Everybody knows it too. Everybody, that is, except the fanbois who kneel an the ms alter....

[Dot Matrix]

Bitter, no. Annoyed, yes. My main computer use is a desktop pc. I have a laptop and tablet as well. The only device metro would be any use whatsoever, is the tablet, which I use least of all. Indeed, it is an almost useless device, imho. Win8, as it stands now is a bastardized frankenstein of an os which serves no one except ms itself.

The bottom line is there is absolutely no need for this metro **** on a desktop. Win7 is a rock solid desktop os, which should have been built upon instead of ripped apart. The overall experience for the average user would clearly decline by switching to 8. Everybody knows it too. Everybody, that is, except the fanbois who kneel an the ms alter....

Why not have Metro on the desktop? No one is forcing you to use the fullscreen apps, but the Start Screen provides a huge benefit to those specifically *on* the desktop as much as those working on tablets. Why dig around a small menu, and countless submenus, when you can have a larger area to work with? Why dig around the menu at all when you can just type to search and be done? Doing that would provide you with an opportunity to be in and out of the Start Screen in a matter of seconds.

[Rickkins]

~sigh~

[xWhiplash]

How is having the entire 30" monitor filled up if you are working on something and accidentally hit the windows key? There is no need to have the start screen take up your entire 30" monitor "just because". I think everybody will be happy with a condensed version AND a start button.

The condensed version can be 100% metro, the point is we do not want our 30" monitor filled every time we want to go to the start screen.

How hard would it for MS to create a condensed Start Screen and bring the start button again? Microsoft has enabled multiple start menu options in the past.

[HawkMan]

~sigh~

So you're saying you have noactual argument, you probably haven't even tried it?

[JaredFrost]

Everybody knows it too. Everybody, that is, except the fanbois who kneel an the ms alter....

Actually, even they know it, which is why they're dead set against them giving an option to disable it, because they know given choice people will not use it and their

beloved Metro would fall by the wayside much like Microsoft Bob.

[JaredFrost]

So you're saying you have noactual argument, you probably haven't even tried it?

There is no argument at this point, why even bother, when the other side wont even bother to try to see the other sides point of view

Here we have one side that wants choice, the option to use either, on the other we have one that doesn't want that, for reasons beyond me

the consumer takes the anti-consumer side.

We could replace the start menu with a popup of the command prompt, you could just type what you wanted to run, why not right? it would work obviously it's better

because it's different.

We could make it so you need to yell at the computer to close programs, it would work so it's better.

[xWhiplash]

I think people also skip over the disadvantages. I have seen how messy the metro Start Screen can get with just a few programs open. Can you imagine if somebody has a few more?

The people who love Metro have never worked for IT Support probably. We are talking about the same group that has 7 Internet Explorer toolbars active at the same time. Can you imagine how messy their Metro start screen will be?! I do not want to use that interface at all.

This is not Microsoft's fault, because Apple OS X Lion is the same way (but Microsoft should have seen their result). When I upgraded to OS X Lion, I had 8 pages of stuff. The Adobe Creative Suite stuff took three of those pages :p. Once I grouped everything together (30 minutes later), I only have 1.5 pages.

[HawkMan]

You can't have both choice and a fast sappy new windows. Redundant duplicated code makes everything slower and costs may timesas much resources in bug hunting and QnA.

And is pointless when the start screen, does everything the start menu does, only better and faster. I stead of ~8 pinned apps, you have ver 40 without scrolling, fully sorted as you want, grouped according to your preferences and with a start screen that opens faster, tiles are faster and easier to find, and combined with muscle memory, you're launching apps faster than the old start menu.

[HawkMan]

Also when nstalling are optimized for win8 all the apps in for example adobe CS won't be pinned, just the main apps, the rest will be under all apps.

Right now windows is pinning everything by default on on win8 installers.

And how did it take you 30 minutes to unpin all the adobe utility apps, should be a max of 5 minutes. I don't think I took that long even.

[Dot Matrix]

I just don't see the argument. Take the old start menu - a small, static menu full of more menus and submenus, and static, hard to see 16x16 icons. There is nothing worth saving from this menu except the search feature. Anyone still digging through this is wasting time.

Or take the Start Screen, a fullscreen area full of your programs, games, calendar updates, schedules, social updates, news updates, weather updates, Internet shortcuts, and the best part? It comes fully customizable, AND it's not limited by the height of your resolution. What's to hate about that? This menu is 10x more functional than the last. So you may "accidentally" hit the Windows key - just tap it again and you're back to where you were.

Metro is all about interactivity. I for one LOVE having this new Start Screen. It let's me go where I want to go, and it's all my important info at a glance. THAT'S why it's full screen. THAT'S why it shows on boot. It literally IS the area to "Start"

[MorganX]

Wrong, the only thing that should die is metro, it stinks, at least when used on desktop. Furthermore, any ms employee who supported forcing this turd onto desktop users ought to be fired. Perhaps when win8 flops.....

It won't flop, and I don't want it to. I just want it to get better, and more seamless especially as it works with the Desktop. Unless someone masters the Metro full screen UI for easy file/disk management, Explorer UI isn't going away, soon and probably never.

Metro will be huge on tablets and Phones. It may not set the world on fire, but it won't "flop." Look how long it's taken 7 which is great to overtake XP which it still hasn't done in the enterprise. As rock solid as 7 is, it will have even more staying power. Metro is about consumer devices and casual computer users. And it will work for them quite well I'm afraid. They actually don't need a desktop and don't use the one they have, lol.