win8 Windows 8 Start button isn't coming back, but there will be a tutorial

[jakem1]

Chances are the general user will not go around doing that. You know all somebody needs to do is Right click on IE and hide those toolbars, yet I still need to work on computers that have a dozen toolbars ACTIVE. You also have the ability to uninstall toolbars, that doesnt mean EVERYBODY will do it. I will not go around uninstalling stuff on a client's computer just so I can move around Metro easier.

So in summary, you complained about a hypothetical problem, someone else explained why it's not a problem and provided a solution and your response is that it's still a problem because hypothetical people will ignore the solution.

At least come up with realistic arguments.

[George P Global Moderator]

Not that I have a problem with the start screen for the most part (still needs some little things IMO to make it even better) but I could see where the option to snap or set it to auto snap to the left side of the screen and not take up the whole screen would be a nice option to have for those who, for some odd reason, lose their "workflow" for the few seconds their whole screen gets taken over.

As far as the start screen filling up with loads of unwanted tiles from all the things you install I honestly don't see how that changes from the way things have been for years with installed apps (unless told otherwise) placing a desktop shortcut AND a start menu entry on your system all the time. I guess some people didn't find issues with that at all till now. I'm sure that apps will let you pick if you want a tile or not, I don't see why MS wouldn't have that option in place? And in any event, I think another start screen option/feature that would be nice to have is the ability to collapse tab groups by clicking on the title thus allowing you to compact things if you chose to.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

I think another start screen option/feature that would be nice to have is the ability to collapse tab groups by clicking on the title thus allowing you to compact things if you chose to.

huh, I had never thought about anything like that, that would actually be a really nice feature if done correctly

[George P Global Moderator]

huh, I had never thought about anything like that, that would actually be a really nice feature if done correctly

It should be possible but the thing is how it'd look, as in placement of collapsed groups, I suppose they could start sliding under each other to make rows of group titles. that'd probably be the best way to do it visually. Or you could swing the titles down vertically to win back horizontal space, but that's always a pain to read IMO. I have trying to read vertical text.

[Dot Matrix]

Absolutely true. The general home user is never going to change the Start Screen from its defaults.

Why do you say that? You give the "general" user less credit than they deserve. What about 10-30 year olds who grew up using computers? They know how to work a desktop, and the Metro Start Screen is no different.

[BeerFan]

Why do you say that? You give the "general" user less credit than they deserve. What about 10-30 year olds who grew up using computers? They know how to work a desktop, and the Metro Start Screen is no different.

I suppose you've got a point, at least in regards to younger users. I guess i was thinking more of the general user in a work environment. At my workplace, a college which employs over 800 people, there would only be a very small minority of tech-savvy people that would have any clue as to how to customize the Start Screen.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

no, i'd still consider most younger people around 10-30 to still be non computer savy, at least around my parts

I'd say a good 80% in this age range just use computers for MS Office Word for school and facebook

[Rickkins]

Why do you say that? You give the "general" user less credit than they deserve. What about 10-30 year olds who grew up using computers? They know how to work a desktop, and the Metro Start Screen is no different.

Fixed.(and thanks)

Why do you say that? You give the "general" user less credit than they deserve. What about 10-30 year olds who grew up using computers? They know how to work a desktop, and the Metro Start Screen is no desktop.

[Dot Matrix]

Fixed.(and thanks)

The Start Screen isn't a desktop, but it works the same way when pinning and moving tiles around. You of all people should know better.

[MorganX]

Stopped by Best Buy today to get some BT Headphones and I must say there's quite a few AIO somewhat underpowered PCs with huge touchscreens. Perfect for Soccer Moms and ordinary folks in the Kitchen and Den who only need basically email and facebook.

Right now they have Windows 7 which is a waste on a touchscreen. Metro will do well in this rather large sector.

[migo]

Absolutely true. The general home user is never going to change the Start Screen from its defaults.

I don't know about the absolutely true part, but yeah, the general home user won't be changing it from its defaults. And they really, really, really need to do something about having the start screen show every start menu shortcut. Much better if they have it show desktop shortcuts.

[techguy77]

MS didn't think through when they started working on Windows 8. They needed something ASAP to compete with Apple iPhone, Android and Blackberry. They are willing to risk Desktop platform just so they can brag about unified interface across all devices. They developed Windows 8 around Imaginary Tablet in form of card box, Microsoft said that during CP presentation. That is one scary ****. Windows 8 will be a total flop and i bet they know that but they will still push it because of Mobile market. With Windows 9 they will try to fix Desktop and Server Interface. We will see how this is going to roll out.

[Dot Matrix]

MS didn't think through when they started working on Windows 8.

You know, a lot of people say this, but I disagree, Microsoft does a lot of thinking, more than Apple and Google do it seems. Every once in a while Apple comes up with something great, but how often does it get a real change? Google, well, Google simply copies and pastes. Simple as that.

[encarta]

MS didn't think through when they started working on Windows 8. They needed something ASAP to compete with Apple iPhone, Android and Blackberry.

Does not compute.

[butilikethecookie]

Remember: Every MS OS I have bought came with a manual. Oh. We were to read those? :| oops....

(NT and XP had a beefy (20-30+ page manual while vista/7 just had a 5-10 pg. one)

[migo]

You know, a lot of people say this, but I disagree, Microsoft does a lot of thinking, more than Apple and Google do it seems. Every once in a while Apple comes up with something great, but how often does it get a real change? Google, well, Google simply copies and pastes. Simple as that.

Microsoft thought it through a lot more than people think. For instance that right click power users menu is great. It goes straight to the stuff I want to actually use, now no filtering through several layers in the start menu to find it. That's because they track usage statistics and see how people actually set up and use their systems, and Windows 8 is based on that.

[MorganX]

Does not compute.

I think he meant iPad. They thought Windows 8 through. The Desktop implementation of Metro is just that, the metro UI. I think they ran out of good ideas but they thought it through.

[MorganX]

MS didn't think through when they started working on Windows 8. They needed something ASAP to compete with Apple iPhone, Android and Blackberry. They are willing to risk Desktop platform just so they can brag about unified interface across all devices. They developed Windows 8 around Imaginary Tablet in form of card box, Microsoft said that during CP presentation. That is one scary ****. Windows 8 will be a total flop and i bet they know that but they will still push it because of Mobile market. With Windows 9 they will try to fix Desktop and Server Interface. We will see how this is going to roll out.

There is NO possibility Windows Server 8 will fail. None. As for the Desktop, unfortunately it won't fail. It's useable even for those who are more efficient with the more flexible Windows 7 Start Menu (someone will restore it). The masses who don't really use computers much and have no need for a desktop will find that Metro makes computing easier and they will actually be more productive with it.

The only thing really wrong is that MS didn't make the Start Page optional for the rest of us and leave the start button. Suggestions that it would be too resource intensive are laughable. MS didn't do it because they want/need Metro Apps which also run on tablets which will flourish with Metro, etc.

It will not be as bad as it feels right now if meaninful, cool, and beautiful Metro apps appear, and rather quickly. If it's like the Marketplace with 90% shovelware, then there will be issues.

[Stoffel]

They took the start button away for consistency.

Now you always get back to the start screen in the same way, doesn't matter if you are on the desktop or a Metro app.

If they would leave the start button then you would have different ways of going back to start which they wanted to avoid.

Makes sense to me, but then again I like MS so I must be a fanboy who just follows whatever MS says

[Dot Matrix]

The only thing really wrong is that MS didn't make the Start Page optional for the rest of us and leave the start button.

Why include the extra code when the start screen does the same freakin thing? Redundant code is never good for anything.

[MorganX]

They took the start button away for consistency.

Now you always get back to the start screen in the same way, doesn't matter if you are on the desktop or a Metro app.

If they would leave the start button then you would have different ways of going back to start which they wanted to avoid.

Makes sense to me, but then again I like MS so I must be a fanboy who just follows whatever MS says

For consistency with the Metro UI which is what they want. If Windows 7 was broken, I think this would be a non-issue. But when you take things away for your own purposes, this causes angst.

[MorganX]

Why include the extra code when the start screen does the same freakin thing? Redundant code is never good for anything.

This actually makes no sense to me. It is neglible and not the issue. They didn't take it away to avoid "redundant" code. They took it way to move people and developers to Metro, period. It's their product and they can do that for wahtever purpose and on whatever timeline they want. Their customers don't have to like it, but will eventually have to buy it unless it pulls a WindowsMe or Vista, which is unlikely.

[Dot Matrix]

This actually makes no sense to me. It is neglible and not the issue. They didn't take it away to avoid "redundant" code. They took it way to move people and developers to Metro, period. It's their product and they can do that for wahtever purpose and on whatever timeline they want. Their customers don't have to like it, but will eventually have to buy it unless it pulls a WindowsMe or Vista, which is unlikely.

Why include both when the Start Screen does the same as and more than what the old Start Menu did? Including the old menu in Windows 8 would be paramount to "excess baggage", that barely 1% of the user base would use.

[HawkMan]

Why include the extra code when the start screen does the same freakin thing? Redundant code is never good for anything.

It's good for lots of extra resources spent bug hunting and QnA on every new windows patch released. People don't understand that even unrelated code need to be tested in every part of windows. Meaning keeping the old start menu would not only be expensive, it would slow down the release of every future patch.

[Dot Matrix]

It's good for lots of extra resources spent bug hunting and QnA on every new windows patch released. People don't understand that even unrelated code need to be tested in every part of windows. Meaning keeping the old start menu would not only be expensive, it would slow down the release of every future patch.

Even if it was still in Windows 8, it would need Start Screen-like functionality to accommodate the metro apps, which means more code, and more QnA. Also, not having enough space for the live tiles, negates the point of having Metro apps to begin with. On top of that, it would most likely be gone in Windows 9 regardless. Either way, those still clinging to it are only delaying the inevitable, just like every other feature that has been removed from Windows over the years.