win8 Windows 8 Start button isn't coming back, but there will be a tutorial

[HawkMan]

Maybe for people that just use internet explorer.

Why is everybody that loves metro so afraid of CHOICE? We get it, you like Metro. But for those of us that do not, we should at least have a choice to not use that ugly start screen on the desktop.

How many times must we explain to the alters, that we are not fanboys or lovers of metro and that it's not about choice or the lack thereof, but the price of choice, and it's to high for MS in both cost to support a redundant and outdated system that only replicates a new system that for 99%+ of the users is better, and the high costs of delayed security patches.

Sorry but you're to small a group to need to waste all those resources and delay the security patches for.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

look at apps like Instagram that many are using. Add a couple lines of code, and it can instantly become a simple, viable alternative to Photoshop [...]

I expect overly complicated apps like Visual Studio to eventually follow this path. An app that's pretty much automated to develop code [...] app does all the coding itself in the background.

:| :huh:

[Dot Matrix]

:| :huh:

:| :huh:

[BajiRav]

Maybe for people that just use internet explorer.

I use IE9, does that make me dumb? what a stupid post.

[~Johnny]

Chances are the general user will not go around doing that. You know all somebody needs to do is Right click on IE and hide those toolbars, yet I still need to work on computers that have a dozen toolbars ACTIVE. You also have the ability to uninstall toolbars, that doesnt mean EVERYBODY will do it. I will not go around uninstalling stuff on a client's computer just so I can move around Metro easier.

Then your point about Metro malware is daft in the first place because the user would first have to go into the Windows Store, find that app and then install it, given that Metro apps can ONLY come from the store (and even then they have to be tested in the first place to make sure they're not destructive) And even then, apps are more -or-less sandboxed to the point that they can't actually do any damage to your system.

[winlonghorn]

Because the 9x doesn't represent what Microsoft wants to do anymore. It's literally dead to them, so why continue to have the excess baggage? Anyone who has used Windows excessively since the release of Vista have known for a while now, that the Start Menu was going away. Once Windows 7 was released, the Start Menu was dead. I personally don't do anything with it anymore other than to restart my machine. You have choice for years now to use it or not use it, and never realized it, but now it's time for the Start Menu to evolve so it can become useful again - AKA The Start Screen. With live tiles, and the like, it literally is the place to Start. If you want onto the desktop, simply click the desktop tile. Takes 1.2323462 seconds.

But, if the Start Menu was still here in Windows 8, how many "computer pros" out there would switch it off out of bias, and never give other users the chance to make their own decisions? Even Warwagon himself said he'd switch it off without bothering to show it to others and let them come to their own conclusions.

There comes a time, where people just need a push into something new. The concept behind Windows 8 will be a game changer.

Maybe not Photoshop, but look at apps like Instagram that many are using. Add a couple lines of code, and it can instantly become a simple, viable alternative to Photoshop which many people outside of the industry NEVER use. Afterall, how many people *really* use it other than to crop pictures, edit brightness, and add photographic filter effects? People seem to wanna use Photoshop as a metric that old, 90's era code is still valid. While that may be the case in certain industries, for normal people (like me), Photoshop is an overly complicated and expensive hog that is completely wasted.

I expect overly complicated apps like Visual Studio to eventually follow this path. An app that's pretty much automated to develop code, just add a few controls, select a few options, and you're done. The app does all the coding itself in the background.

Again, Metro is a long time coming.

In other words, putting developers out of a job? I sure hope not because I am a developer and love my job. :s

[Dot Matrix]

In other words, putting developers out of a job? I sure hope not because I am a developer and love my job. :s

maybe not putting you out of a job, but coding and developing is an overly complex process that not too many want to do or have the time to do, which means a lot of good ideas go to waste. If there was an app that could simplify the process, then more and more people can get into building their ideas. It opens the landscape to more people.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Then your point about Metro malware is daft in the first place because the user would first have to go into the Windows Store, find that app and then install it, given that Metro apps can ONLY come from the store (and even then they have to be tested in the first place to make sure they're not destructive) And even then, apps are more -or-less sandboxed to the point that they can't actually do any damage to your system.

both of which I wouldn't be surprised to see someone crack and find ways around (there's no such thing as perfect security in technology)

[winlonghorn]

maybe not putting you out of a job, but coding and developing is an overly complex process that not too many want to do or have the time to do, which means a lot of good ideas go to waste. If there was an app that could simplify the process, then more and more people can get into building their ideas. It opens the landscape to more people.

In other words, developers like myself would be developing and maintaining these apps instead of productivity software and other types of software?

[MFH]

I expect overly complicated apps like Visual Studio to eventually follow this path.

Overly complicated? My friend you have no idea of the stuff that's used in the industry? VS is a childs game compared to industrial software?

An app that's pretty much automated to develop code, just add a few controls, select a few options, and you're done. The app does all the coding itself in the background.

Yeah right? You just outed yourself again as somebody who has no idea about software development?

[delete]

I expect overly complicated apps like Visual Studio to eventually follow this path. An app that's pretty much automated to develop code, just add a few controls, select a few options, and you're done. The app does all the coding itself in the background.

I don't have to refute any argument you make ever again. I just need to post this quote.

[Dot Matrix]

I don't have to refute any argument you make ever again. I just need to post this quote.

You seriously believe overly complex programs (yes, programs) like Visual Studio won't be updated to include easier, less complex means to develop? I've got news for you, but it's called forward thinking. Yes, Virginia, Visual Studio and similar old programs will be updated one day to a simpler, easier to use app that won't require the tedious use of complex controls, and outdated computing paradigms.

[Dot Matrix]

I don't have to refute any argument you make ever again. I just need to post this quote.

If I went back in time 15 years, and told you that by now mobile apps would be out selling classic desktop programs, and that apps like Instagram would replace Photoshop, would you have believed me? Or would you be telling me what you're telling me right now?

[trek]

Mobile Applications still need to be coded. Even if you delusionally believe that some magical WYSIWYG IDE will come out that will spit out drag and drop applications, someone has to code that IDE.

[HawkMan]

There are several plug and code or whatever you want to call them tools being made. For now I believe all the big three are working on these for their mobile OS', with varying degrees of success, but where heading to a future wherea lot of neat "simpler" apps canbe made entirely by designers with an idea and no coding.

[Rickkins]

... Instagram would replace Photoshop...

Bwahahahaha....that's rich.

Seriously, keep goin'.....yer becoming less and less credible with each post.

[rfirth]

There are several plug and code or whatever you want to call them tools being made. For now I believe all the big three are working on these for their mobile OS', with varying degrees of success, but where heading to a future wherea lot of neat "simpler" apps canbe made entirely by designers with an idea and no coding.

I think the only apps will be (and currently are) simple enough to do that are simple RSS apps - apps that are auto-generated to provide content from a website or RSS feed. Give it the URL and color scheme, and you're good to go. There are a couple services that do this. Short of that, it's impossible.

And Instagram could replace Photoshop... if you're not a professional. Same with what he's suggesting about Visual Studio. Visual Studio is not a toy. It's serious business. You can drag and drop UI elements, but no matter what you're going to have to write the code behind by hand [even if some of it is boilerplate/standard stuff... actual application logic will need careful consideration].

^ All changes if we get some serious AI. But that would be a very scary world.

[Dot Matrix]

Bwahahahaha....that's rich.

Seriously, keep goin'.....yer becoming less and less credible with each post.

So, you're telling me more people still use Photoshop than Instagram? What world do you live on?

[encarta]

So, you're telling me more people still use Photoshop than Instagram? What world do you live on?

What the hell does Instagram have to do with Photoshop!? Instagram is a mobile social photo app with a few filters, while Photoshop is a professional software for photo manipulation and design.

[Dot Matrix]

**** this. I give up trying to explain.

[winlonghorn]

I think the only apps will be (and currently are) simple enough to do that are simple RSS apps - apps that are auto-generated to provide content from a website or RSS feed. Give it the URL and color scheme, and you're good to go. There are a couple services that do this. Short of that, it's impossible.

And Instagram could replace Photoshop... if you're not a professional. Same with what he's suggesting about Visual Studio. Visual Studio is not a toy. It's serious business. You can drag and drop UI elements, but no matter what you're going to have to write the code behind by hand [even if some of it is boilerplate/standard stuff... actual application logic will need careful consideration].

^ All changes if we get some serious AI. But that would be a very scary world.

Good point! I agree with that last statement as well! :) Very frightening indeed! If computers get smart enough to think for themselves, what will they think? I am inclined to believe that it would be a terminator scenario eventually.

[techguy77]

I use Paint.NET which is free and better than Instagram, so much of that. I can't wait for Metro to fail so bad on PC and MS pays price for their ignorance.

[Stokkolm]

It's not going to flop. I've been using it for almost a month and I doubt I could go back to Windows 7 without missing the Start Screen. It just takes a little while to learn how to get around, but then it's great.

[HawkMan]

I think the only apps will be (and currently are) simple enough to do that are simple RSS apps - apps that are auto-generated to provide content from a website or RSS feed. Give it the URL and color scheme, and you're good to go. There are a couple services that do this. Short of that, it's impossible.

And Instagram could replace Photoshop... if you're not a professional. Same with what he's suggesting about Visual Studio. Visual Studio is not a toy. It's serious business. You can drag and drop UI elements, but no matter what you're going to have to write the code behind by hand [even if some of it is boilerplate/standard stuff... actual application logic will need careful consideration].

^ All changes if we get some serious AI. But that would be a very scary world.

Why would it only be good for RSS apps ?

http://mashable.com/2010/07/12/google-app-inventor/

I believe the one MS was working on was better, as in easier to use and able to make more powerful app. but I don't remember what it was called or where it was written about and I believe both are still in beta.

[Stoffel]

I can't wait for Metro to fail so bad on PC and MS pays price for their ignorance.

Do you realize how sad you sound with a comment like this.

You can't seem to get your head around the fact that there are a lot of people for whom METRO will be a lot easier to use then Win7