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neoadorable

It is also important to remember that the Nazi party was the minority party, and they ruled and came to power through fear, intimidation, and murder. They eliminated all opposition.

Many german citizens saved many lives at risk to their own and their families, and their stories will be untold. Once a dictatorship like that is in place, it's difficult to judge those who don't fight against said regime. That is difficult to judge. There is a human instinct to survive and protect your families and children, so once evil is in power ... they are hard to unseat.

Plus, Nazi's were able to evolve their ideology so far uninterrupted because of support and being modeled after similar beliefs in the US (American Racism, Eugenesis. Hitler had the support of Joe Kennedy, the Rockefellers, Henry Ford and many other powerful Americans) and Russia (Marxism, the part that believed lower classes should be exterminated to allow the superior classes to prosper). Before the Nazi's invaded Russia, Russia starved what, over 7 million lower class people to make room for the upper classes to prosper? The prison camps Russia liberated were not shut down, Russia filled them and used them for the same purpose for many years after the war. Most pictures you see of bodies being removed, are Russia removing them to make room for their prisoners.

It's not racism, or nationalism, it's good vs. evil. Thus the world will never tire of killin', stabbin', stranglin' Nazis. And I think that is a good thing.

 

Very true and well said. Very few instances of human wrongdoing exist in a vacuum or in isolation. Nazi Germany was the result of a small group of idiots and lunatics allowed to run wild through a very particular set of circumstances, and other groups of people saying we don't care unless they cross certain lines. Once they crossed those lines it became clear just how wrong it all was hence even people that formerly didn't mind or even supported Hitler and Co. taking action against them in self defense and in defense of decency (i do believe most people know right from wrong, they just choose to forget when it's convenient).

 

As for gaming, it's all tongue in cheek, but i think we know there's an element of racism to it. I don't want to be too much of a hypocrite, buying Wolfy day one and will likely laugh my ass off the 20 hours of playing the campaign or whatever it is. But there is an aspect of it that says it's OK to do all these things to these people "because they're nazis, not human". That's wrong to me. Anyway, it seems like many others this Wolfenstein gets around the issue by (quite accurately) portraying most Germans as victims themselves, as much of the resistance appears to be German volk, i mean people :laugh:

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The Evil Overlord

Well, Moment of Truth tomorrow, was it worth the hype, or just another disappointment (ps4)

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neoadorable

Worth the wait, for sure man - just for the scene where they're comparing injuries hahaha, that was awesome

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HawkMan

Strange how the first and second Wolfensteins, including censoring, where so immensely popular in Germany.

What did that have to do with my post? Besides nothing?

SPACE NAZIS!

Did they come from the G?tterd?mmerung?

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neoadorable

Did they come from the G?tterd?mmerung?

 

Iron Sky should be compulsory viewing for...everyone, but especially if you plan on playing the new Wolfenstein

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ShadowMajestic

What did that have to do with my post? Besides nothing?

Did they come from the G?tterd?mmerung?

That a Wolfenstein game without swastika's (the censoring part) that its suddenly a bad game. Hard time reading your own posts?

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HawkMan

That a Wolfenstein game without swastika's (the censoring part) that its suddenly a bad game. Hard time reading your own posts?

What are you smoking? Do you know what you are writing or what your even reading?

My point was, and also what I posted several times, that wether the game has actual swastikas it faux swastikas and real or faux nazis doesn't make the game good or bad. A good or bad game does, the rest is styling.

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+xrobwx71

Before I read this, I was going to say that Schindler's List must have been a really confusing movie in Germany if Nazi iconography is outlawed.

 

Context matters. Outlawing pro-Nazi propaganda would be easier to defend than Nazi symbolism in a game where you play as a soldier fighting against Nazis.

As was Inglourious Basterds, any Hitler/3rd Reich, Ken Burns documentary, etc, etc.

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HawkMan

As was Inglourious Basterds, any Hitler/3rd Reich, Ken Burns documentary, etc, etc.

 

Yeah. but seeing as movies are excempt, it's kind of irrelevant.

 

btw, before the mods gets a jump on you, I suggest you get yoru sig in accordance with forum rules. 

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PGHammer

It is also important to remember that the Nazi party was the minority party, and they ruled and came to power through fear, intimidation, and murder. They eliminated all opposition.

Many german citizens saved many lives at risk to their own and their families, and their stories will be untold. Once a dictatorship like that is in place, it's difficult to judge those who don't fight against said regime. That is difficult to judge. There is a human instinct to survive and protect your families and children, so once evil is in power ... they are hard to unseat.

Plus, Nazi's were able to evolve their ideology so far uninterrupted because of support and being modeled after similar beliefs in the US (American Racism, Eugenesis. Hitler had the support of Joe Kennedy, the Rockefellers, Henry Ford and many other powerful Americans) and Russia (Marxism, the part that believed lower classes should be exterminated to allow the superior classes to prosper). Before the Nazi's invaded Russia, Russia starved what, over 7 million lower class people to make room for the upper classes to prosper? The prison camps Russia liberated were not shut down, Russia filled them and used them for the same purpose for many years after the war. Most pictures you see of bodies being removed, are Russia removing them to make room for their prisoners.

It's not racism, or nationalism, it's good vs. evil. Thus the world will never tire of killin', stabbin', stranglin' Nazis. And I think that is a good thing.

The National Socialist party were old-fashioned nationalists - not new OR news, even in terms of Europe.

Consider the similar rise (in Italy) of Mussolini, or even that of Stalin in the Soviet Union even earlier.

All three leaders were, at their core, ethnic nationalists - which has ALWAYS been popular.  (Said popularity didn't wane any after Hiter and wife Eva did their final exits, either - look at world history merely since.)

Comparisons have ALWAYS been made - individual, national, ethnic, etc. - it goes back to (if you consider the Bible's Old Testament as history) no less than the Tower of Babel, and, specifically, God's Curse of Babel.  (The Curse of Babel, simply put, was the introduction of conflict where there had not been any - this is the direct genesis of ALL warfare.)  Note that God's Opposition had nothing to do with it - this curse was delivered directly by God.  Prior to the Curse, there were NO different ethnicities, belief systems, etc.

 

The other reason for the return to reliance on genocides has a LOT to do with (like it or not) the founding of the United States.  The United States was originally a bunch of colonies where England and other colonial empires couild export their malcontents to leave the core of the empires free of conflict.  Then, the United States - the group of "European rejects and exportees" - started whacking those European empires on what they perceived as their turf - and that was despite the Civil War.  Suddenly, the idea of colonialism - and colonies - didn't look so attractive to those in power - why would it when it could result in your own destruction?  Hence a return to genocide. (India was both an aberration AND an exception - however, India was also colonized by the British - the SAME nation directly responsible for the founding of the United States; however, even British rule in India was not always peaceful.)

 

I'm not making light of the atrocities committed by Hitler - I'm not that crazy.  However, what Stalin did merely prior to HItler's invasion of Russia was actually worse, just in terms of the impact on the Soviet Union as a country.  The reason it took a long time to uncover made all sort of POLITICAL (specifically, geopolitical) sense - you don't whack your allies.  Was opinion on the "evils" of German atrocities being "unparalleled" universal?  Not only no, but HECK no, and the opinion was split in the general-officer corps of even the United States Army - consider both Patton AND MacArthur; while neither was a fan of the SS, both despised the Soviet Union, and never had a kind thing to say about the Red Army.

 

Call it what you will - genocides, pogroms, exterminations, etc., - the real reason for all of it is power-retention.

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DeltaXray

My copy arrived today. First impressions:

- That day-one patch. Wow. :(

- Graphics: actually pretty good. The videos make it look awful but on PS4 on my TV it actually looks good. Some good lighting and particle effects. Feels very smooth as well.

- Gameplay - very wolfenstein. I like the old school feel. For nostalgia I like the return to medpacks for example mixed with being a bit up to date where it regenerates if you get too low but only up to I think 20%.

Overall, I've only spent about half an hour with it so far but it has pleasantly surprised me. Hearing what some people were saying (clearly based off videos and not hands on) had me regretting the pre order but so far am very glad I kept it. Seems like it will be a lot of fun.

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neoadorable

My copy arrived today. First impressions:

- That day-one patch. Wow. :(

- Graphics: actually pretty good. The videos make it look awful but on PS4 on my TV it actually looks good. Some good lighting and particle effects. Feels very smooth as well.

- Gameplay - very wolfenstein. I like the old school feel. For nostalgia I like the return to medpacks for example mixed with being a bit up to date where it regenerates if you get too low but only up to I think 20%.

Overall, I've only spent about half an hour with it so far but it has pleasantly surprised me. Hearing what some people were saying (clearly based off videos and not hands on) had me regretting the pre order but so far am very glad I kept it. Seems like it will be a lot of fun.

 

Thanks for posting this man, sounds good, can't wait to play it

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neoadorable

Yeah. but seeing as movies are excempt, it's kind of irrelevant.

 

 

 

There's a lot of hypocrisy in Germany when it comes to WWII-related topics. Games are entertainment and not strictly artistic expression, so they're censored. But museums and movies are in context and therefore can depict pretty much anything. Even for movies, stuff that's deemed historic is OK, like any "serious" WWII movie. But get Uwe Boll to make Nazi Zombie Army - the Movie, and see how far the authorities there let it go before crushing it under their boot.

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chrisj1968

I remember being in the Army over in germany and playing the original wolfenstein 3D.. in Germany. we didn't have that restriction

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neoadorable

Thanks for posting this, seems like most people at least like it. Read the Eurogamer review and not sure exactly what the person didn't like...otherwise very much psyched for trying this out soon.

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The Evil Overlord

Thanks for posting this, seems like most people at least like it. Read the Eurogamer review and not sure exactly what the person didn't like...otherwise very much psyched for trying this out soon.

I'm actually nervous, I have very fond memories of the original wolfenstein, and later on I'm going to pick up my copy, the fear I have is has it evolved into another 'generic shooter' type game living off the glory from it's predecessor..?

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neoadorable

I'm actually nervous, I have very fond memories of the original wolfenstein, and later on I'm going to pick up my copy, the fear I have is has it evolved into another 'generic shooter' type game living off the glory from it's predecessor..?

 

Well, it is a modern shooter taking after Return to Castle Wolfenstein and 2009 Wolfenstein. It's more Rage than Wolfenstein 1992, i'd wager. So if you want that kind of pure run and gun action it may not be the right choice. But i would hardly call this type of modern game generic. You shouldn't be nervous, just enjoy it, can't be that bad: it doesn't have rechargin health and there's even armor, and playing on hard appears to be really challenging.

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The Evil Overlord

Well, it is a modern shooter taking after Return to Castle Wolfenstein and 2009 Wolfenstein. It's more Rage than Wolfenstein 1992, i'd wager. So if you want that kind of pure run and gun action it may not be the right choice. But i would hardly call this type of modern game generic. You shouldn't be nervous, just enjoy it, can't be that bad: it doesn't have rechargin health and there's even armor, and playing on hard appears to be really challenging.

yeah, I used the word 'generic' a little loosely (Y)

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DeltaXray

I don't know what was going on with that eurogamer review.... That kind of thing is why I stopped trusting their reviews long ago.

Ended up spending about 4 hours playing it last night. Storytelling is very good and the game seems packed with alternate-history lore which fleshes the game out which feels unusual (and good) for a shooter.

Personally so far I would give it a solid 8.5, might even push it up to a 9 by the end of the game.

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neoadorable

I don't know what was going on with that eurogamer review.... That kind of thing is why I stopped trusting their reviews long ago.

Ended up spending about 4 hours playing it last night. Storytelling is very good and the game seems packed with alternate-history lore which fleshes the game out which feels unusual (and good) for a shooter.

Personally so far I would give it a solid 8.5, might even push it up to a 9 by the end of the game.

 

Thanks for posting this and makes sense - glad to know you liked it and in three sentences you told me more about it than Eurogamer did in a whole web page. I still like them but they do get iffy on occasion :|

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neoadorable

I remember being in the Army over in germany and playing the original wolfenstein 3D.. in Germany. we didn't have that restriction

 

Wasn't it the game that started this whole moral panic in Germany hahaha?

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HawkMan

There's a lot of hypocrisy in Germany when it comes to WWII-related topics. Games are entertainment and not strictly artistic expression, so they're censored. But museums and movies are in context and therefore can depict pretty much anything. Even for movies, stuff that's deemed historic is OK, like any "serious" WWII movie. But get Uwe Boll to make Nazi Zombie Army - the Movie, and see how far the authorities there let it go before crushing it under their boot.

EVERYONE should should crush anything he does under their boots.

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neoadorable

EVERYONE should should crush anything he does under their boots.

 

Heheh i don't know, can't help but like the guy! Don't diss him too much, he'll challenge you to a boxing match

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+trag3dy

I feel sorry for anyone who got this on steam and has a bandwidth cap without being aware of it's download size. Over a 40gb install.

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