religion? fake? real?

[Kestrel]

Religion is a story initially created by ancient men to try and explain the world around them in the absence of scientific understanding. The concept was seized by powerful men to control the masses and form armies whose land and resource conquests were hidden under the veil of "religious righteousness". Today the armies are largely gone, replaced by organised religion, organisations only slightly removed from organised crime whose goal is not to imprison bodies as in the past, but to fill their coffers with money and imprison minds that science would set free.

Religion is nothing more than a prison for free thought and scientific truth. How any rational mind can believe in such childish stories is one of the strange quirks of the modern world.

Say what you will; if you argue on the side of religion in the face of all the proof science has to the contrary then don't expect a reply as I only interact with intelligent people capable of forming rational opinions.

[Shadrack]

Religion is your link to the past. In fact, that is what the word religion originally means.

Faith is what you beleive in that CAN NOT, Kestrel, be proven or disproven by scientific means. Faith is what connects a person to their spirituallity, religion connects a person to their family and traditions.

Organized religion is becomming more and more of a joke in modern days. American culture is more and more about looking ahead, rather then looking at the past. I mean, where is the respect for the elderly in our culture. There isn't much.

So, in short.

...

[Warning]

In my opinion there is no higher entity, or god, but however if i found indestbutable evidence that all religions were in effect fake, then i would definately think twice about revealing it to the world. As even if it may not be real, a lot more good comes out of being in a religion than bad.

Saying all that i'm still not too keen on heavily religious people, going about their lives with the primary intent of being with the almighty at the end of it ( in most mainsteam religions). I am a very strong athiest and will probably never be swung towards any religion unless some sort of amazing revelation takes place and all of a sudden it is proven against all scientific knowledge at the moment, that God or something like that does exist ( :rolleyes: like that would ever happen) - no offence. But even if some god does exist he is surely very evil, nasty egotisical b******. But then again that is probably challengable by someone who thinks they have a much more educated view on the subject, - and are probably right.

If "he" does exist, then he is a bit of a mother father, as for aliens, that sounds a bit more tangiable... :alien:

[Slacker]

In my opinion there is no higher entity, or god, but however if i found indestbutable evidence that all religions were in effect fake, then i would definately think twice about revealing it to the world. As even if it may not be real, a lot more good comes out of being in a religion than bad.

Saying all that i'm still not too keen on heavily religious people, going about their lives with the primary intent of being with the almighty at the end of it ( in most mainsteam religions). I am a very strong athiest and will probably never be swung towards any religion unless some sort of amazing revelation takes place and all of a sudden it is proven against all scientific knowledge at the moment, that God or something like that does exist ( :rolleyes: like that would ever happen) - no offence. But even if some god does exist he is surely very evil, nasty egotisical b******. But then again that is probably challengable by someone who thinks they have a much more educated view on the subject, - and are probably right.

If "he" does exist, then he is a bit of a mother father, as for aliens, that sounds a bit more tangiable... :alien:

I'm going o speak on behalf of Christianity since it is what I'm most familiar with it. While it is true that there is no absolute scientific proof to support religious claims, science fails to dis-proove it either. It's incorrect to dismiss something that cannot be proven simply because it cannot be proven.

But what's more, faith wouldn't be faith if it was completely proovable. What merit is there in believing in something that is undenyable? No, it's believing in the absurd that makes faith meaningfull.

Not even science can be completely trusted. Science is our method of explaining what we can observe. Scientific laws do not govern anything, they merely discribe what we see. In our current laws, we often come across exceptions and dismiss them as the unusual. Sure, we may come across new sets of laws that explain these exceptions, but that still is merely an explaination.

What's more, scientific discoveries are all based on inductive reasoning and presumes that what we see is really what is. Many moden Philosophers from Descartes and onward have confounded people with theories that are not unprovable and are disturbing. Inductive reasoning has been dismissed because it isn't cetrain; I assume that the sun will rise tomorrow because it always has in the past, I can't know for certain if it will or not.

The role of science is limited and biased, it's biased be cause it only takes into account one perspective, ours. It's limited because it only explains what we observe, but there are many things that people would refuse to deny but are unobservable. Intelligence, compassion, justice, hatred, etc. These things themselves are unobservable; sure, we can see the effects of these things, but it's impossoble to see these things themselves. Science has no role that plays in these things. Are we to believe that justice, love, happy and dumbness don't exist because science can't prove them? What role does science have in determining ethics, laws or life value? Indeed, science falls short as a guide for human life, it only address one aspect of it.

I believe in justice because I can see the effects of justice. I believe in religion because I see the effects of religion. Look for yourselves. Sure the big bang may have been the start of the universe, but what caused that to happen? Is the big bang the creator of justice and love? There is definately something to religion, it explains something about life that science never can. In this way, religion has less limits than science has.

[TheElite]

Religion is a story initially created by ancient men to try and explain the world around them in the absence of scientific understanding. The concept was seized by powerful men to control the masses and form armies whose land and resource conquests were hidden under the veil of "religious righteousness". Today the armies are largely gone, replaced by organised religion, organisations only slightly removed from organised crime whose goal is not to imprison bodies as in the past, but to fill their coffers with money and imprison minds that science would set free.

Religion is nothing more than a prison for free thought and scientific truth. How any rational mind can believe in such childish stories is one of the strange quirks of the modern world.

Say what you will; if you argue on the side of religion in the face of all the proof science has to the contrary then don't expect a reply as I only interact with intelligent people capable of forming rational opinions.

if that is true, then how come there are still 5(.5)/6 of the worlds population that believes in God?

and you can only believe in God truely if you are in a religion, if you aint, what good will it do ya to believe?

[Arkos Reed]

if that is true, then how come there are still 5(.5)/6 of the worlds population that believes in God?

and you can only believe in God truely if you are in a religion, if you aint, what good will it do ya to believe?

hmm been a long time since I went in here

so, the village idiot/fanatic is still around?

[idvah]

Religion is a belief system. To say that religion is only for Christians, Muslims, Buddhist etc. is flawed, since religion is the morality and ethics we live by. If you don't believe in God, thats your religion. If you believe in God, thats your religion. Religion is unique to the indivisual, since each person as a different view as to what is right for them.

[lwebster_2000]

So am i right from what all you religious folk are saying, that your faith is only truely a meaningful faith bla bla because the existence of a 'god' cannot be proven nor disproved? If this is so then would the proof that a 'god' does exist take away the meaningfullness and your spiritual link to your religion - after all you would no longer be having faith in it, rather just standing by fact. Moreover, though it has been said that it is incorrect and unfair to dismiss something that cannot be proven simply because it cannot be proven, however is it not absolutely insane to devote your life to something that you have absolutely no proof of and wouldnt even know about if someone hadnt told you about?

[Slacker]

So am i right from what all you religious folk are saying, that your faith is only truely a meaningful faith bla bla because the existence of a 'god' cannot be proven nor disproved? If this is so then would the proof that a 'god' does exist take away the meaningfullness and your spiritual link to your religion - after all you would no longer be having faith in it, rather just standing by fact. Moreover, though it has been said that it is incorrect and unfair to dismiss something that cannot be proven simply because it cannot be proven, however is it not absolutely insane to devote your life to something that you have absolutely no proof of and wouldnt even know about if someone hadnt told you about?

Isn't is absolutely insane that you believe that such a thing as hatred or selfishness exists if there is no certain proof of it? I would like you to show me a pile of hatred, because I can't find any. Sure, I can see lots of the effects of hatred, but I can't really find a pile of hatred anywhere... Perhaps I shouldn't believe in it...

Come on, this is rediculious, If people only know about religion because someone has told them who told the first person? It's been through development and revelation that religion has developed, otherwise religion would be the same now as it was 2000 years ago, and it's not.

And we all have beliefs in something. If you are American, do you not believein american values? Do you not believe that western ethics are better than the ethics of terrorists? If there is no set of laws perscribed by God, then american values are only popular opinion in one area of the world and terrorists are completely justified in what they do. Obviously there must be some sort of minimum ethics and this must come from somewhere.

Yes, in the unlikley even that the existance of God was proven beyond doubt, then faith would be unnecessary just as you say. However, meaning for life can be drawn from more than just faith. You know this.

I have no certain proof that God does not exist, but I believe because I have seen His work in my life. If you ask for what I have experienced this is impossible for me to answer as it's impossible for one person to completely tell another person what an experience is like. It may seem insane or absurd, and logically it is. However, it is just as absurd to believe in anything for which there is absolutly no proof for then too... There is absolutly no proof that mercy exists, just what people think it is, and yet people do believe in this because we can see the effects of mercy. If you say that you see no effects of God, then take a really serious look. The effects of God are not hard to find if you look and religious teachings and scripture are unnecessary for finding these effects, teaching and scripture take youe experience to a new level.

[RufioPan]

Religion is a story initially created by ancient men to try and explain the world around them in the absence of scientific understanding. The concept was seized by powerful men to control the masses and form armies whose land and resource conquests were hidden under the veil of "religious righteousness". Today the armies are largely gone, replaced by organised religion, organisations only slightly removed from organised crime whose goal is not to imprison bodies as in the past, but to fill their coffers with money and imprison minds that science would set free.

Religion is nothing more than a prison for free thought and scientific truth. How any rational mind can believe in such childish stories is one of the strange quirks of the modern world.

Say what you will; if you argue on the side of religion in the face of all the proof science has to the contrary then don't expect a reply as I only interact with intelligent people capable of forming rational opinions.

Grogg and Trugg sat in a cave and thought up religion to explain stuff, eh? Hmm, and powerful men using religion to seize control? Imprisoning minds and ridding them of free thought and scientific truth? Science contradictory to religion?

Oh my... that's quite a number of leaps you've made there! Outside of popular Christian history (which covers only a minute fraction of the religious history of the world), I'd love to see you demonstrate how religion imprisons minds and especially how science contradicts religion!

Errr.. before you reply though, you may want to consider *all* religions, since your comments originally were directed towards all religions.

Thanks :)

[TheElite]

hmm been a long time since I went in here

so, the village idiot/fanatic is still around?

no but the troll definetely did.

[TheElite]

if religion was thought up by ancient people, why hasn't it died down now? surely in this modern society, we dont need God :rolleyes:

[sanctified Veteran]

if that is true, then how come there are still 5(.5)/6 of the worlds population that believes in God?

and you can only believe in God truely if you are in a religion, if you aint, what good will it do ya to believe?

have you heard about agnosticism? dont think so... :sleep:

[Slacker]

,Mar 8 2004, 16:56] have you heard about agnosticism? dont think so... :sleep:

Agnosticism has been around for just as long and hasn't been able to make much impact except in North America and Europe.

[sanctified Veteran]

Agnosticism has been around for just as long and hasn't been able to make much impact except in North America and Europe.

who is discussing the impact? I was debating his facts about organized religions, not impact, I couldnt care less if Im the only agnostic in the world

[TheElite]

there arent many agnostics in the world

[Fredde87]

sorry I havnt read the whole thread but

Religion is a way for the humain being to get answers to the unexplainable....

Its just something we have mad up to be able to deal with certain things...

[sanctified Veteran]

there arent many agnostics in the world

that just passed over your head without you knowing isnt it? :rolleyes:

Back to my cave, its funny to read this without participate

[TheElite]

Its just something we have mad up to be able to deal with certain things...

certain things such as?

oh and [saint dark], yeah prolly true.

[Rell]

Well, i haven't been in this topic for a while, but, interesting thing my Pastor preached yesterday when I was at church. He was talking about the major religions in the world. He said some of them are Islam, Buddhism, etc. (Keep in mind this is a Christian Church.) and then he went on saying there are even folks that have there religion of believing in not believing. He compared it to him closing his eyes and saying someone that is there, is not there because he cannot see them. Just because you cannot see something does not mean that it is not there. Anyways, just something to think about.

[TheElite]

erm, why was he talking about Muslims, Buddhists again?

[Rell]

erm, why was he talking about Muslims, Buddhists again?

He was just stating the different religions but he only went in depth about athiests...

[TheElite]

oh, ok.

[RufioPan]

What I find remarkable is that people come by, opine about religion and God being human constructs that were created by an uneducated and stone-age civlization out of fear, and then leave without providing any evidence for their theories or even being able to prove that there exists science or fact that contradicts religion (again, I can only defend Islam).

Of course, everyone has a right to their own opinion though :)

[Rell]

What I find remarkable is that people come by, opine about religion and God being human constructs that were created by an uneducated and stone-age civlization out of fear, and then leave without providing any evidence for their theories or even being able to prove that there exists science or fact that contradicts religion (again, I can only defend Islam).

Of course, everyone has a right to their own opinion though :)

Now, your onto some fairy tales? I'm not gonna get into who's right and who's wrong because that shouldn't be what its about in religion. Religion should be about belief whether or not its right or wrong is irrelevant. I will talk to you about your so called thought of thinking of ?stone-age? people as you refer to them?

For you thinking they "are so dumb... and just made up religion because of fear." Just think of things they made that we still use and you will find that they are and were very smart. Math was made by ancient "stone-age" people.

Just something to think abo:D... :D