TheElite Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 you can guess from which nation he was. :pI mean how can you be a religious scientist? that is just bs.. which nation? :unsure: why? religion and science are partners, as einstein once said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSammyx Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 most of the people who have stated they are not believers have put forth the arguement that there is no proof that god exists. this is understandable as i used to feel the same way. but i will tell you of my experience. one time during Ashura i was in Iran and as usual i didnt really care because most people are fed up with religion especially in a country where religion is force fed to you. however i was walking on the street during the celebration and was watching the parade (if u can call it that). and i felt a presence, a greater force. at that moment i knew that this feeling was justification enough. all that i am saying is that i found my way to god and that is through islam. i believe that each person should have the feedom to find their own way to god. if you do not believe in god, there is no problem in that because god does not need to be justified, your existence alone should be justification enough. (my point of view). also i have read this entire thread over before writting this and i would like to say to those that feel as if muslims are saying "their god is better than the others", that this is not true and that as muslims we believe we all have the same god. it doesnt matter if you say god or allah, allah is just the arabic word for god. some of you think that religion is outdated, but just think what your lifes would have been like right now without those religions coming into being in the past. also religion does not seperate people, during the haj, you will see people of all races, of all different backgrounds and of all different satus in society coming together wearing the same thing having no difference between them because they are all human and equals. One God, One Love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35883 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 scientist who have seen molecules (?) and understands the and agrees how the earth was created by the sun.. yet they believe in the bible that says that earth was created in 7 days.. ok i agree that jesus was a historical person but i don't believe that he made all those miracles and stuff.. hmm and that other thing.. which war hasn't been influenced on religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 where does it say that the earth was made by the sun? erm, World War 1 werent coz of religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSammyx Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 if you are implying that all wars were influenced by religion then you have mistaken. i can think of a lot of conflicts which were not religiously motivated: for example on the african countinet and particularly in the western part there have been wars over diamond trade. thousands of people have died and this was not religiously motivated. also was the vietnam war religiously motivated? there are lots of examples, and if you think that religion and war are intertwined then you are clearly wrong because technically there was war before religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35883 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 umm ok not all wars.. but the worst war is. hmm and and no war have been less worse because of religion.. since almost all religions is against killing each other, i see that as quite strange.. other than that religion is made by weak people who want something to blame their problems on.. ex. no i didn't made this mistake that blew up the reactor. it was god that made me do it ohh **** now i **** people of.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flasher Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Well, a long time ago people have invented all these gods because of their hard life, they felt like telling somene about their difficulties so they made up the gods... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSammyx Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 honestly where would you be without religion? religion gave people a moral code. people would all be thugs without moral and family values wondering around. society would not be where it is today if it wasnt for religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerox Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Ok, here we go... :happy: It's pretty obvious why we have religion. Put a species of mammals on a planet that have the ability to fear death, add imagination, creativity, aggression, group belonging, advanced communication, advanced society, morals... ...and they will develop religion. It is our (the humans) inability to accept that we don't know everything, and can't control everything that is the driving force. Our fear of dying. Our fear of the unknown. Our fear of not being in control of our destiny. Our fear of not being in control of others. We are the only creatures that constantly wonder what "the meaning of life" is, and we demand the answer. We are greedy, and creating rules for our society that puts a minority in control of the majority has always been popular. We are lazy, and prescribing to a set of ideas and solutions that millions of others claim to be true is very convenient. We are cowards, the thought of a superior force that controls everything puts the real responsibility somewhere else. When, in addition, these ideas give us a feeling of control, a feeling of superiority, a feeling of security, a feeling of belonging in a group, the illusion that we know the real truth and that the "others" are wrong, righteousness (and the list goes on), we ambrace it. Regardless of religions obvious lack of logic, we insist on its validity. We call it "belief", but treat it as hard facts... When science gives us evidence that parts of the religion is completely far out, we call it "symbolic". I can't say that God doesn't exist, just like I can't possibly claim that he does. Both would be wrong. Atheism is just as wrong as religious fundamentalism. I'm not to say religion is fake, I simply don't know. But religion as it is practiced by us humans is wrong. Just look around you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35883 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 and the world would be overpopulated aswell.. otherwise we would poulate like fruitflies.. horrid thought :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSammyx Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 who is your post directed to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35883 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 hmm the post over the long onte.. i wasnt fast enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rell Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Think of the idea of a War, Wars are only REALLY BIG DISAGREEMENTS ... they could be about anything, but, religion seem to stick out a lot because obviously there are either some which don't want someone to have something. Those are the roots of things; it has been the war since the beginning of time. I am Christian, and I have accepted Christ into my life as my lord and savior. I don't always do the right thing, I am not perfect, no one is... No one is required to believe in something, it?s up to you to believe what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Regardless of religions obvious lack of logic hahaha, religion HAS the most logic! you saying that the big bang theory and evolution are logical then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiff Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I am Christian, and I have accepted Christ into my life as my lord and savior. I don't always do the right thing, I am not perfect, no one is... No one is required to believe in something, it?s up to you to believe what you want. this is what is wrong with religion, it brainwashes people. " I am Christian, and I have accepted Christ into my life as my lord and savior. " what a complete crock of crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rell Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 this is what is wrong with religion, it brainwashes people. " I am Christian, and I have accepted Christ into my life as my lord and savior. " what a complete crock of crap I do not understand what you are trying to say... You say I am "brainwashed" and its a "complete crock of crap"? Dont really think that your reply contributes to the topic, just makes things go down hill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 smiff, i know that you are one of the people who hates religion, but you dont know why the **** we are here anyway so STFU! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rick Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 religion is something people use to control other people....it is also something people use to avoid taking responsibility for anything Well said... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not saying religion has no place in this world. For a lot of people it's the one good thing in there life. However I have rarely met a religious person who was not a complete hypocrite. However the main topic was alien vs religion and I suppose that anything is possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marduk Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Religion = social control.'nuff said. I also concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElite Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 look, if you aint got no point, dont act like sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonBlur Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 look, if you aint got no point, dont act like sheep. Ok ZAnwar, you have made your point multiple times that you believe Islam is the "right" religion, and is superior to all others, and that because of that YOU are superior and you can sit on your high horse and talk down to everyone else "knowing" you are right. We can all tell by reading your posts throughout this thread that is exactly how you feel. Don't fool yourself by arguing with me about that point, all you will be doing is discrediting (even more) all of the things you have said, some of which have been good points, some... not-so-good. You have made it your personal vendetta to reply to just about every person that thinks religion is fake and explain to them why they are stupid, illogical and wrong for thinking so. Guess what? This topic is NOT about Islam. Islam is NOT the ultimate power in the universe, and for most people on this planet it is the answer to ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Nada. Zip. I am not saying that the majority is always right, I am saying that making fun of people and saying they are wrong, and giving us some links to some online sights with information on Islam is not going to convince anyone of anything, other than reaffirm people who already believe. And more importantly, giving us that information does not make you (or others of the Islamic faith) right. The existence of a religious text, and it having some basis in reality, and other people writing about how accurate it is and how that religion is the "right" one does not make it the one true answer and certainly does not PROVE God exists. Just because someone or something has followers does not mean that person or thing is "right". All it means is that they were convinced of it. God may very well be real (since it really can't be proved OR disproved). RELIGION, in my opinion, is a crock of ****. You don't need to be a follower of a religion (see: cult) to believe God exists. You don't need Islam, Christianity, Judaism... nothing. Faith in God != Religion. Religion equals faith in God(s), but you do not need religion to have faith in God. To say your religion is the right one, when you all worship the same God (since, by definition, there can only BE one), is outragious, and it is also dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerox Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 hahaha, religion HAS the most logic!you saying that the big bang theory and evolution are logical then? How sad... :no: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 hahahaha, that gave me a laugh! :shifty: it doesnt say in the bible once that Jesus is God, people (christians) being sheep, follow exactly what they are told :whistle: Yes it does. Several times actually. I would suggest that, next time, when you are in search of the correct belief system, you read a little bit of scripture. Matthew is a good book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 (edited) Old Testament Passages Isaiah 7:14??Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel? (Immanuel literally means ?God with us?). Isaiah 9:6??For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end....? Jeremiah 23:5-6??Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.? Christ?s name in Hebrew is YHWH Tsidkenu, Jehovah Our Righteousness. Micah 5:2??But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.? Christ has always existed because He is not a created being; He is God Almighty who has existed from everlasting. Malachi 3:1-2??Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner?s fire, and like fullers? soap.? God?s temple is Christ?s temple. Christ comes as an all-powerful judge. Psalm 45:1, 6-7??I speak of the things which I have made touching the king.... Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee....? The Hebrew word translated ?anointed? is the verb form of the noun ?Messiah.? Psalm 110:1-3??The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power....? The LORD (Jehovah) will subdue all Christ?s enemies. Yet Christ?s rod and Christ?s power will subdue all enemies. Christ?s rule and power are clearly equal to God?s. See Psalm 2 where a similar theme is discussed: ?Serve the LORD [Jehovah] with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way...? (vv. 11-12). Note how ?the Son? is set poetically in parallel with ?Jehovah.? New Testament Passages Matthew 1:23??Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.? John 1:1-3, 14??In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.? John 1:18??No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.? John 20:27-28??Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.? Romans 9:6??Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen? (NKJV). Philippians 2:5-8??Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.? ??Who was in the form of God? are his [the Apostle Paul?s] words: and they are words than which no others could be chosen which would more explicitly or with more directness assert the deity of...Jesus Christ.... Let us remember that the phraseology which Paul here employs was the popular usage of his day, though first given general vogue by the Aristotelian philosophy: and that it was accordingly the most natural language for strongly asserting the deity of Christ which could suggest itself to him.... ?Form,? in a word, is equivalent to our phrase ?specific character.?... With God...the ?form? is that body of qualities which distinguish Him from all other spiritual beings, which constitute Him God, and without which He would not be God. What Paul asserts, then, when he says that Christ Jesus existed in the ?form of God,? is that He had all those characterizing qualities which make God God, the presence of which constitutes God, and in the absence of which God does not exist. He who is ?in the form of God? is God.??[3] Colossians 1:15-16??Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible....? When the Apostle Paul says that Christ is the firstborn over all creation, he does not mean that Christ is the first created being. For he goes on to explain that Jesus Christ created everything in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible. Jesus Christ could not create Himself. The idea among various cults that Christ is the first created being is an impossible absurdity. Colossians 2:8-10??Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power.? 1 Timothy 1:16-17??Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.? 1 Timothy 2:3-4??For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.? 1 Timothy 3:16??And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.? 1 Timothy 6:14-16??...the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.? Titus 1:3??But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour.? Titus 2:10??...showing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.? Titus 2:13??Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ? (NKJV). Hebrews 1:1-3??God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.? Hebrews 1:8??But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.? Jude 25??To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and for ever. Amen.? And this doesn't include scripture where Jesus said he was God, scripture that ascribes attributes to Jesus Christ which can only be predicated of God, or passages where Jesus was worshiped. I can post those as well if you like Edited February 24, 2004 by superfula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufioPan Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Since this thread started off as an inquiry into religious belief as opposed to lack of belief, I'm going to stick to that. On that note, superfula, you should stick to the topic! To the many atheist or agnostics on this forum: I'm curious as to why you don't believe in religion/God? Some are of the opinion that religion is the "opiate of the masses", implying that it is a means of control. Others have expressed that too many wars and too much fighting goes on in the name of religion. One has to understand that the nature of religion makes it a very powerful force. Those who believe in religion/God will know what I mean... we believe and that belief empowers us and drives us to accomplish good. Now throughout history, good intentions have lead to war, whether they be religiously motivated or not. I'm not attempting to defend religious war (it's an oxymoron according to me and Islam). Wars have been started over religion, over politics, over land, over food, over anything that even remotely empowers people. So it's not fair to say that wars fought on religious grounds are worse than other wars. They are all equally horrid. If one is to study any faith, they will always find a message of peace and good will at the core of that faith, so long as it is a true Divinely revealed faith. The wars come in when there are people misrepresenting that faith and choose to politicize their faith in order to accomplish their own goals. That is an objection I share with you. Yet others disbelieve citing that there is no evidence either way on the existance of God. This is something I completely disagree with. Have any of you ever even bothered to read a Quran? Now, far from starting an Islam vs. Christianity debate, I simply mention the Quran because it's the Book I can best represent. I really do believe it to be from God, and even still I am surprised by the truthes contained within. A good amount of careful study will reveal that the Quran contains laws in it that are for the benefit of all mankind. It confirms many scientific truthes we take for granted (but were contained in the Quran a good 1400 yrs ago), and even prophecises many other things we are only seeing the reality of today. It is quite impossible for such knowledge to have been possessed by a human being. That in itself is a testament to the truth of religion and God. Those who vehemently disagree have usually never bothered to open the Quran let alone actually read it through and study it. Again, I have to emphasize that I believe there are many divinely revealed religions... I simply believe that Islam is the most recently revealed and thus the most accurate and direct path to God. No doubt many other Divinely revealed faiths have truths in them as well. Anyways, I have to run for dinner, but I have more to add so I'll be back. Peace :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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