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What is up with all these DKs that think they can run an instance as DPS and roll on Tank gear and vice-versa? They need to get hit with the nerf stick bad. I can't run as dps as a protection paladin. ****ing bull****.

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New Incoming PTR Patch

World of Warcraft PTR Patch 3.0.8

The latest test realm patch notes can always be found at http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/...patchnotes.html

The latest patch notes can always be found at http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/

General

* Achievement: The Loremaster of Kalimdor Achievement has had its quest amount reduced.

* Bonus Armor: The mechanics for items with bonus armor on them has changed (any cloth, leather, mail, or plate items with extra armor, or any other items with any armor). Bonus armor beyond the base armor of an item will no longer be multiplied by any talents or by the bonuses of Bear Form, Dire Bear Form, or Frost Presence.

* Racial restrictions on mounts have now been lifted. Night elves on mechanostrider? Tauren on raptor? You?re not seeing things.

* Tapping: All player spells which cause a creature to become aggressive to you will now also immediately cause the creature to be tapped.

PvP

* Wintergrasp Commendations can now also be purchased for the low low price of 9 Wintergrasp Marks of Honor. Players can visit their respective Wintergrasp vendors and put those Marks of Honor to use!

Death Knight

* Death Knights have access to unique death-knight only facial textures and skin tones. These can be selected at the character creation screen.

* Raise Dead has now been split into two spells:

o Raise Dead now raises a ghoul or pet ghoul (if talented). Requires corpse dust if no humanoid corpse is nearby.

o Raise Ally now raises a fallen party member and has no reagent. Available at level 72.

Druid

* Feral Attack Power: All weapons now have the potential to grant feral attack power based on their dps (as compared to the best superior-quality weapons available at level 60). Players will see their existing feral weapons grant roughly the same attack power as they did before (+/- 2 or so), but many new weapons will be options for the feral druid. Some feral weapons have had strength converted to attack power to be more appealing to other classes able to equip them. All druids will see the amount of feral attack power granted by an item in the item tooltip, if it grants any, but other players will not see that information.

* Genesis: Now works with Tranquility and Hurricane.

* King of the Jungle - The Bear effect is now physical, and thus cannot be dispelled.

* Nature's Grace - Now also effects Revive.

* Primal Tenacity: Now reduces the cost of Bear Form, Cat Form, and Dire Bear Form by 17/33/50% in addition to its previous effects.

* Protector of the Pack: No longer changes value based on party size.

* Savage Roar: The buff now persists outside of Cat Form but only provides its benefits while in Cat Form.

* Starfall will now be cancelled by any shapeshifting.

* Survival of the Fittest: This talent now grants 22/44/66% bonus armor in Bear Form and Dire Bear Form in addition to all of its previous effects.

* Swipe: Swipe (Cat) has now been added at level 71, dealing 260% weapon damage, costs 50 energy with no cooldown. All talents affecting the Bear Form version affect the Cat Form one as well.

* Wild Growth now has a 6 second cooldown.

Hunter

* Aspect of the Wild - This aspect is now raid-wide.

* Deterrence: Design changed to grant 100% parry and 100% chance to "deflect" spells coming from the front, but prevents the Hunter from attacking. Lasts 5 sec. 60 sec. cooldown.

* Kill Shot ? Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds, down from 35 sec.

* Steady Shot: Now gains 10% of attack power as damage instead of 20%.

* Viper Sting: Now drains a percentage of maximum mana.

Mage

* Slow Fall is now castable on others.

Paladin

* Avenging Wrath: Divine Shield, Divine Protection, and Hand of Protection, and Avenging Wrath cannot be used within 30 seconds of each other anymore. Forbearance removed from Avenging Wrath.

* Divine Protection: The penalty has been removed.

* Divine Shield: The penalty has been changed so that all damage done is reduced by 50% in place of an attack speed penalty.

* Judgements of the Pure: This Holy talent now increases the damage done by Seals and Judgements.

* Judgement of Wisdom: Now returns a percentage of base mana instead of a percentage of max mana.

* Sacred Duty: Interaction with Divine Shield and Divine Protection removed, but stamina bonus increased.

Priest

* Abolish Disease and Cure Disease can now be cast while in Shadowform.

* Holy: Circle of Healing now has a 6 second cooldown.

* Levitate is now castable on others.

* Mana Burn: Now burns a percentage of maximum mana.

* Shadow

o Shadowform: You can now shift into Shadowform while mounted or sitting.

o Vampiric Embrace- Mana cost of this spell has been removed.

Rogue

* Fan of Knives: The cooldown has been removed. In addition, now deals 150% of weapon damage when used while daggers are equipped.

Shaman

* Fire Nova Totem: Now no longer generates threat.

* Magma Totem: The damage and scaling has been increased and no longer generates threat.

* Searing Totem (Rank 4) now does the proper damage for its rank.

* Tremor Totem's duration has been increased from 2 minutes to 5 minutes.

* Elemental

o Elemental Shields: This talent has been removed. It has now been merged with Elemental Warding.

o Elemental Warding: Now reduces all damage taken by 2/4/6%. Changed from only reducing Nature, Fire and Frost by 4/7/10%.

o New Talent: Shamanism-Your Lightning Bolt spell gains an additional 2/4/6/8/10% and your Lava Burst gains an additional 4/8/12/16/20% of your bonus damage effects.

o Storm, Earth and Fire: This talent has been moved up in the tree, and it?s talent points have been reduced to 3 down from 5. Wind Shock is also included in the range increase (with Earth Shock). The damage bonus to Flame Shock has been increased, up from 10/20/30/40/50 to 20/40/60.

o Unrelenting Storm: point cost reduced to 3, down from 5. Now does 4/8/12%

Warlock

* Drain Mana: Now drains a percentage of maximum mana.

* Emberstorm: Now works with Conflagrate.

* Ritual of Summoning: Will now create a summoning portal object which can be re-used for multiple summons for 5 minutes.

Warrior

* Bloodthirst: Charges have been decreased to 3, but the effect has been raised to 1% per charge.

* Fury: Bloodsurge: Now has a chance to trigger from any hit with Heroic Strike, Bloodthirst, or Whirlwind.

* Fury:Titan's Grip: The hit chance penalty has been removed.

Professions

* Alchemy

o All flasks no longer require an alchemy lab to create.

* Blacksmithing

o Reduced the spell power on the Titansteel Guardian to bring it in line with its item level.

o Increased the material requirements to make high level frost resistance gear created with blacksmithing.

* Engineering

o Engineers may now be able to properly engineer Centrifuge Constructs.

* Inscription

o Glyph of Death Strike has also been reduced by 50% to 1% healing per 5 Runic Power.

o Glyph of Holy Light now affects friendly targets in a larger radius.

o Glyph of Deterrence: Now -10 seconds instead of -20.

* Leatherworking

o Iceborne Belt pattern skill up range has been increased to the correct range.

* Mining

o Weakened Giants and Iron Rune Sentinels can now be correctly mined.

* Skinning

o Increased the critical strike rating granted by ranks 5 and 6 of Master of Anatomy.

o Carrion Fleshstrippers are now skinnable.

Quests

* The quest, "Scare the Guano Out of Them!" now only requires 10 Darkclaw Guano, down from 15. Also, only the character that scared the bat, or their party, may now loot the guano.

* Shoveltusk Meat obtained during the quest, "Shoveltusk Soup Again?" is now correctly flagged as a quest item with no sell price.

* During the quest, "Scalps!", you can no longer use Ahunae's Knife to scalp kills that you aren't tapped to.

* The path followed by the Har'koa's Kitten during the quest, "I Sense a Disturbance" has been improved.

* Westguard Sergeants, Winterhoof Braves, and Ethereal Frostworgs should no longer attempt to attack their opposite faction counterparts unless the character controlling them is first attacked.

* Westguard Sergeant and Winterhoof Brave demoralizing shouts will now only affect the Winterskorn vrykul and worgs at Skorn.

* Various fixes to the Queen Angerboda event during the quest, "The Slumbering King".

* The daily quest, "Shoot 'Em Up" now only requires 15 Jotunheim Proto-Drakes to be shot down, down from 20. As well, the harpoon now only costs 5 energy to shoot, down from 10.

Dungeons and Raids

* The Obsidian Sanctum

o Players will now be affected by Twilight Residue when they leave the Twilight Realm. Twilight Residue grants immunity to Fire and Shadow damage for a few seconds.

User Interface

* For additional notes on Lua and XML changes please visit the UI & Macros forum.

Items

* Amberglow Signet now correctly grants Hit Rating.

* Deadly Gladiator's Staff has had the Agility and Critical strike rating restored to ratios consistent with other instances of the Gladiator's Staff.

* Gifts and Pledges of Adoration for the capital cities are now soulbound.

* The Flag of Ownership now has only a 60sec cooldown to match the 60sec duration of the flag.

* The following crafted weapons have had their stats adjusted to properly reflect their intended power:

o Corroded Saronite Edge, Corroded Saronite Woundbringer, Cudgel of Saronite Justice, Furious Saronite Beaststick, Saronite Spellblade, Saronite Shiv, Savage Cobalt Slicer, Notched Cobalt War Axe, Sturdy Cobalt Quickblade, Cobalt Tenderizer

* Living Lashers can now properly be skinned with Herbalism.

* Players can now open clams while riding a vehicle, sitting, mounted, stealthed, and invisible.

* Reduced the stats on the Savage Cobalt Slicer to match the weapon's level.

* Some low-level rogue pvp gloves were accidentally omitted from the patch 3.0.3 update. This has been rectified.

* Some neglected creatures in Icecrown have found the contents of their pockets.

* Totem of Hex now correctly grants 165 spell power to Chain Lightning and Lightning Bolt, up from 85.

* The white Polar Bear mount is now the proper (larger) size.

World Environment

* Incapacitating Shout now has an 8 second duration.

* Conquered Soul of the Blightcallers are no longer AE immune.

* Corrected a raid emote in Violet Hold to display the proper creature name.

* Corrected a redundant aura tooltip for Locust Swarm in Naxxramas.

* Several creatures in the Construct Quarter of Naxxramas did not have Heroic values for hit points and damage.

* Storm Peaks, Grom'arsh Crash Site - Peon Gakra is now an innkeeper and the zeppelin hull, an inn.

Bug Fixes

* Druid: Savage Fury - Mangle (Bear) damage was being increased by a higher percentage than intended. This has been fixed, and in result Mangle (Bear) should see roughly a 16% damage reduction. Also fixed a bug with Savage Fury where the Rake bleed effect was not being increased.

* Priest: Mind Flay - Fixed a bug with targeting where you would not deal damage if not facing the target while channeling.

* Shaman: Elemental Shields was reducing flat physical damage, not a percentage. Now properly reduced by a percentage.

* Shaman: Lava Lash - Fixed a bug which allowed you to use the ability even if you had a shield in offhand. Now requires a 1hand axe, fist or dagger to be able to be used. Bug #147699.

* Shaman: Fixed a bug where Thunderstorm (Elemental) was knocking back 15 yards, instead of 20. It should now roughly knockback the correct length of 20 yards.

As you can see hunters have been nerfed to the ground baby! Happy to say currently at level 40 with a paladin, just 40 more levels to go before that is my main. Blizzard have totally destroryed the class and i dont see them taking away any of these changes, all will make it live.

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New Incoming PTR Patch

As you can see hunters have been nerfed to the ground baby! Happy to say currently at level 40 with a paladin, just 40 more levels to go before that is my main. Blizzard have totally destroryed the class and i dont see them taking away any of these changes, all will make it live.

They did that because Hunters are now WAY op in DPS/gear-level. They thought other classes would come at the same level, but they didn't.

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the plate quest items ..... SUCK MONKEY BALLS for dps Deathknights :(

Seriously. I got so tired of picking up pants with haste, pally gear, and millions of blue shoulders. Who the hell did the plate itemization? It's horrible.

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They did that because Hunters are now WAY op in DPS/gear-level. They thought other classes would come at the same level, but they didn't.

They did that because of the amount of QQ they got from undergeared mages and other classes. Anyone who plays a hunter and does raiding know this nerf is huge. DPS reduction of 30% is massive no matter how you see it.

Certain things did need a nerf, such as Pet DPS and Volley however the steadyshot nerf is uncalled for. Hybrid classes will now out dps hunters in equal gear.

There are WWS availble where rouges are topping meters and mages with equal gear. Its a shambles!

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What is up with all these DKs that think they can run an instance as DPS and roll on Tank gear and vice-versa? They need to get hit with the nerf stick bad. I can't run as dps as a protection paladin. ****ing bull****.

You're right, you can't. DKs can though.

Can't say I'll lose any sleep over it though, since I utterly hate the paladin class.

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What is up with all these DKs that think they can run an instance as DPS and roll on Tank gear and vice-versa? They need to get hit with the nerf stick bad. I can't run as dps as a protection paladin. ****ing bull****.

That's why I tell them, if your coming to dps you are not taking any tank item unless I don't need it. And after I don't need you can /roll against the pally healer for offset. Only way your going to get to roll on tank items if your tanking. And seeing how you only need on tank for instances, go form your own.

I do the same thing to warriors who main set is tank but there dpsing and pallies. Don't care, if you want loot for your main set then you need to do heroics for your main set. Some people don't care, I really don't such as if there a guildie the above rules are thrown at the window and I'll pass on upgrades for me to give to them since it's a bigger upgrade, but if it's pug, above rules apply.

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Seriously. I got so tired of picking up pants with haste, pally gear, and millions of blue shoulders. Who the hell did the plate itemization? It's horrible.

yep same with trinkets /rings as well :(

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Death Knight

* Death Knights have access to unique death-knight only facial textures and skin tones. These can be selected at the character creation screen.

* Raise Dead has now been split into two spells:

o Raise Dead now raises a ghoul or pet ghoul (if talented). Requires corpse dust if no humanoid corpse is nearby.

o Raise Ally now raises a fallen party member and has no reagent. Available at level 72.

How will the DKs who have already been created access the new skin tones and facial features?! The barber I'm assuming?

And am I misreading this or are we getting a rez?

:woot:

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That's why I tell them, if your coming to dps you are not taking any tank item unless I don't need it. And after I don't need you can /roll against the pally healer for offset. Only way your going to get to roll on tank items if your tanking. And seeing how you only need on tank for instances, go form your own.

Before 3.0 I was pugging quite a bit for DPS gear to help ease the leveling grind. What would you

rather have healing you:

  • A priest wearing weapons from Kil'Jaeden, 4-piece Tier 6 and sunwell gear in every slot healing your group but rolling on DPS loot.
  • A 2/5 Tier 5, 3/5 Tier 4 + Kara / ZA geared Shadow priest DPSing and rolling on DPS gear primarily and healing gear for "offspec"?

Your instance doesn't get run without all of the members contributing. If you have issues with competition for gear then setup your group accordingly. "You're not allowed to roll on gear for role x" is pretty lame IMO, your much better served by forming the most efficient group and clearing content.

They did that because of the amount of QQ they got from undergeared mages and other classes. Anyone who plays a hunter and does raiding know this nerf is huge.

Talking to one of our tanks last night: he seemed to agree that hunters were pretty retarded.

His alt-turned-main Drall was besting our mages (ie: Ava).

Given the age of this expansion I don't think you can say either one are poorly geared.

If hunters truly are "useless" after the patch then we'll see them adjusted back up again.

There are WWS availble where rouges are topping meters and mages with equal gear. Its a shambles!

All things equal (gear & skill) hunters win out over other classes.

No doubt that it's a substantial nerf, but that doesn't mean it's uncalled for.

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http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/...patchnotes.html

looks like they added more stuff

Death Knights

	* All multi-rune abilities generate 15 runic power.
	* Anti-Magic Shell: The cooldown has been lowered to 45 sec from 60 sec.
	* Blood Aura now grants 2/4% instead of 1/2% healing.
	* Blood Presence now grants 2/4% instead of 1/2% healing.
	* Bloody Strikes will receive extra bonus damage from Pestilence.
	* Bone Shield: The mitigation has been reduced from 40% to 20%.
	* Corpse Explosion: Damage increased substantially, added 5 sec. cooldown, and changed cost to 40 runic power.
	* Dark Command: Range increased to 30 yards.
	* Death Knights have access to unique death-knight only facial textures and skin tones. These can be selected at the character creation screen.
	* Death Pact now grants 40% instead of 20% healing.
	* Frost Presence: The bonus armor has been increased from 60 to 80% and magic damage reduction increased from 5 to 15%.
	* Heart Strike no longer has a haste debuff but will now be able to strike two targets.
	* Horn of Winter now has no cost and grants 10 runic power in addition to its stat buff, but has a 30 sec cooldown.
	* Icebound Fortitude now reduces damage by 20% instead of 50%. The amount of damage reduced increases with bonus Defense (to about 35% for 540 Defense, but can go higher).
	* Night of the Dead now grants 40/70% passive area spell avoidance to your pet in addition to its current effects.
	* Outbreak will no longer receive bonus damage from pestilence. The bonus from Plague Strike and Blood Boil has been increased slightly.
	* Pestilence no longer has a 10 seconds cooldown.
	* Raise Dead has now been split into two spells:
		  o Raise Dead now raises a ghoul or pet ghoul (if talented). Requires corpse dust if no humanoid corpse is nearby.
		  o Raise Ally now raises a fallen party member as a ghoul and has no reagent. Available at level 72. This should now last for 4 minutes. 
	* Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle (two-handed only) now grants 25 Defense and 2% Stamina.
	* Rune Strike: Damage decreased from 200% to 150% but threat increased to 150% from 100%.
	* Shadow of Death: The duration has been changed from 45 seconds to 25 seconds.
	* Unholy Blight had had its cost reduced from 60 to 40 runic power.
	* Wandering Plague will now properly reset after being cast.
	* Vampiric Blood: In addition to its current effects, also adds 20% health temporarily.
	* Will of the Necropolis will now reduce the damage of any attack that takes the DK below 35% health by 5 /10/15% instead of boosting armor when wounded,

its not a rezz its just the ability to bring back 1 group member as a ghoul for about 4 mins

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They did that because of the amount of QQ they got from undergeared mages and other classes. Anyone who plays a hunter and does raiding know this nerf is huge.

The hunter nerf was warranted. At least in our raid, one hunter is ~1000+ dps above everyone else in the raid, and he's a stoner... :p

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Before 3.0 I was pugging quite a bit for DPS gear to help ease the leveling grind. What would you

rather have healing you:

  • A priest wearing weapons from Kil'Jaeden, 4-piece Tier 6 and sunwell gear in every slot healing your group but rolling on DPS loot.
  • A 2/5 Tier 5, 3/5 Tier 4 + Kara / ZA geared Shadow priest DPSing and rolling on DPS gear primarily and healing gear for "offspec"?

Your instance doesn't get run without all of the members contributing. If you have issues with competition for gear then setup your group accordingly. "You're not allowed to roll on gear for role x" is pretty lame IMO, your much better served by forming the most efficient group and clearing content.

Your comparing running instances at a time when everybody and there alts has gear from all of T4 and the 2.4 badge vendors (at least they should) to a time when running instances still helps you raids (the majority of gear is replaceable by 25 mans, some isn't). When I'm in full raid gear (25/10) and a DK tank wants to DPS my run if tank gear drops, he can have it. But at the time when some gear is still an upgrade to few they should get it for doing there job in the run/instance and not someone who's running off-spec because they don't want to form there own group.

You should note, I rarely pug. I run guild exclusive and anytime it's a non-guildie it's either a friend of mine or someone else in the run. Very few times I run a full PUG. And re-reading what you said, it sounds like you were agreeing with me (?) just not as extreme as I listed (?)?

Any chance, if you go to a raid/instace as DPS then you should expect to get DPS loot. If you do a raid/instace as a tank expect tank loot and as a healer expect healing loot. I believe you get gear based on what you are doing at the time, not for something you could be doing at a later time. But that's just me. Even when I run heroics now, it's starting to get to the point where I just ask does anyone want before I greed it (stupid achievement) and DE it. So it's not that big of an issue for me.

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Probably have to delete our characters and go again :rofl:

Wondering about this too;

Players may now create death knights on any realm once they reach level 55.

Will we still be limited to *one* DK?

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Talking to one of our tanks last night: he seemed to agree that hunters were pretty retarded.

His alt-turned-main Drall was besting our mages (ie: Ava).

Given the age of this expansion I don't think you can say either one are poorly geared.

If hunters truly are "useless" after the patch then we'll see them adjusted back up again.

All things equal (gear & skill) hunters win out over other classes.

No doubt that it's a substantial nerf, but that doesn't mean it's uncalled for.

I am not saying hunters do not need nerfing, there are aspects that do need a nerf when it comes to hunters.

Volley needs nerfing, i Outdps mages at time with AoE. I managed to get 10k DPS on volley in nax with serverely bad gear, im using level 70 PvP gear along with kara and ZA drops, in addition to some new drops from heroics such as the new crossbow.

Pet DPS deffinitly needs nerfing, when using my Gorrilladin (AoE pet) it ends up doing 40% of my total damage. That nerf would be welcomed.

The nerf that is not welcome by more or by majority of other hunters is the stready shot nerf. Instead of scalling with 20% of attack power it will now scale with 10%. When talking about raid DPS then Just steadyshot will make your DPS around 35% lower then before. Thats a huge nerf. So im guessing your Main Tanks alt with probably doing the same DPS as hybrid classes or even less. Blizzard specifically said Hybrid dps in equal gear is always 5% lower.

Hunters need nerfing, not pummeling.

As for the fix, 4 seasons of biting the dirt in PvP and still no fix. Im sure we can all hope though.

The hunter nerf was warranted. At least in our raid, one hunter is ~1000+ dps above everyone else in the raid, and he's a stoner... :p

Certain aspects were warrented, see description above.

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Your comparing running instances at a time when everybody and there alts has gear from all of T4 and the 2.4 badge vendors (at least they should) to a time when running instances still helps you raids (the majority of gear is replaceable by 25 mans, some isn't).

Rewind time to when I was 4/5 T5 while most of the server wasn't able to zone in to Tempest Keep. I wanted to get to get 5/5 Mana Etched.

Or go back further to when priests were absolutely horrible healers, paladins were king of the world and it looked like the only way I'd keep my raid spot was by respecing (prior to patch 2.1). I might have been Full tier 4 but obtaining DPS gear was a really high priority. Does it make sense to turn away one of the best geared healers on the server just to ensure that I'm not taking gear from someone "more worthy" because of their primary spec?

When I'm in full raid gear (25/10) and a DK tank wants to DPS my run if tank gear drops, he can have it. But at the time when some gear is still an upgrade to few they should get it for doing there job in the run/instance and not someone who's running off-spec because they don't want to form there own group.

They are doing their job: just as a DPS warrior/druid/paladin might respec to tank in order to have a shot at something like shard of contempt in MGT or a Paladin might agree to heal a Gruul Pug to get a shot at the DST.

You should note, I rarely pug. I run guild exclusive and anytime it's a non-guildie it's either a friend of mine or someone else in the run. Very few times I run a full PUG. And re-reading what you said, it sounds like you were agreeing with me (?) just not as extreme as I listed (?)?

I don't agree that "if you come as X then you can only take loot for X unless you settle for scraps". If someone participates in a dungeon run and loot drops that they can use then they have a right to roll IMO. If you want to impose special rules, that's your business of course but I don't think it's fair to discount a persons contribution to a group. If you want all the tanking loot for yourself just run with priests/warlocks/mages/shaman/rogues/hunters and be done with it.

Even my raid guild handles loot with "/roll, with peer pressure" for distribution on heroic 25-man content (and everything else). I think such a system equally values the contribution of all members of a raid/party and it encourages a sense of mutual respect and understanding.

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You're right, you can't. DKs can though.

Can't say I'll lose any sleep over it though, since I utterly hate the paladin class.

Oh, I think that Ret pallys need to get hit by the nerf stick bad since the 3.0 patch. But do you really hate on the holy and prot paladins? If so, why is that?

In anycase, the game needs some balance refinement or its just going to drive people away. Why don't we just all be DKs now and not play any other class? Because that is lame.

I don't hate DKs, I hate loot ninjas. And as far as I'm concerned, any class that rolls need for a spec that they aren't playing in that instance when someone of that spec does need it is a loot ninja. Some DKs think they are the exception because they are technically "tank specd" but still put out the dps (more so then true dps spec'd classes, which is a shame and I hope Blizz fixes that). In anycase, since I'm tanking if you ninja something I need, you are kicked from the group and added to my ignore list. Plenty of cool people playing WoW so that I don't have to deal with the **** heads.

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The nerf that is not welcome by more or by majority of other hunters is the stready shot nerf. Instead of scalling with 20% of attack power it will now scale with 10%. When talking about raid DPS then Just steadyshot will make your DPS around 35% lower then before. Thats a huge nerf.

Can I see your math?

Theory crafting on elitist jerks places the nerf somewhere between 5 and 15% for, with the change converging on 10% across all three popular specs.

Blizzard specifically said Hybrid dps in equal gear is always 5% lower.

Equal gear, equal skill, over a cross-section of fights. Hybrid classes should be approximatley 5% lower than a pure DPS class (defined as mages, warlocks, hunters, and rogues).

Melee will do very well against patchwerk: their damage is tuned around spending a certain percentage of time getting into position so being left to stand and attack should put their numbers fairly high.

Ranged will do very well against a boss like Grobbulus because they can deal with the contant movement a lot better than melee can.

DOT classes tend to do well on fights like Maxenna, "bursty" classes to to do better on things like Gothik.

On average classes are intended to be equal enough that difference in skill should hide the difference in "on paper" balance. If your hunter gets tied by my shadow priest how sure are you that you're playing flawlessly? If you're getting 82% out of your class and I'm getting 86% out of mine - we should break even. A 4% difference in skill is damn near impossible to quantify in this game: it's a rounding error.

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Can I see your math?

Theory crafting on elitist jerks places the nerf somewhere between 5 and 15% for, with the change converging on 10% across all three popular specs.

Equal gear, equal skill, over a cross-section of fights. Hybrid classes should be approximatley 5% lower than a pure DPS class (defined as mages, warlocks, hunters, and rogues).

Melee will do very well against patchwerk: their damage is tuned around spending a certain percentage of time getting into position so being left to stand and attack should put their numbers fairly high.

Ranged will do very well against a boss like Grobbulus because they can deal with the contant movement a lot better than melee can.

DOT classes tend to do well on fights like Maxenna, "bursty" classes to to do better on things like Gothik.

On average classes are intended to be equal enough that difference in skill should hide the difference in "on paper" balance. If your hunter gets tied by my shadow priest how sure are you that you're playing flawlessly? If you're getting 82% out of your class and I'm getting 86% out of mine - we should break even. A 4% difference in skill is damn near impossible to quantify in this game: it's a rounding error.

Never mind the effect of lag.

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Can I see your math?

Theory crafting on elitist jerks places the nerf somewhere between 5 and 15% for, with the change converging on 10% across all three popular specs.

Just took this from a post at elitist jerks actually.

http://elitistjerks.com/1006041-post12.html

Using his numbers the DPS reduction i caluclated coming from steady shot alone to be 30.77%, im not great at maths so if you have a quick look and find it wrong maybe someone can correct me. On top of that Pet DPS and attack speed have been lowered so again that will drive DPS down even more. I have yet to try the spreadsheet that was on there however again nothing is set in stone till it hits ptr.

The amount of DPS reduction is Depending on gear. Its pretty obvious the more attack power you have the less you will care. Overall as a guess i reckon the total DPS decrease is a lot higher than 10%. BM tree hit the worst, i never used Rediness with TBW so im not affected by that, survival is probably the second worst it tree, it already lagged behind the two other trees in DPS and now will fall behind even more, i cant imagine Survival being a viable raid dps tree for patches to come.

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Will we still be limited to *one* DK?

Per realm I believe. Honestly, I thought it was kind of stupid to have to level a character on another server to 55 just to throw them away so you can make a DK.

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Got my flying mount the other day, and got my flying skill today as an early in-game Christmas gift from a very good friend. :)

Flying around Outland is so much fun.

--

As far as other things:

I'm wondering about the new patch. Something I've noticed that is mysteriously missing:

They told us that mounts would be able to swim the next coming patch.

That's NO WHERE listed on this PTR patch notes.

Is it still coming?! :cry:

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