[OSx86] I Hope Apple stops these OSX86 installs

[Wannes]

Actually, Apple's Labs do have several operable viruses for Mac OS, that being said the process required to install the virus is extreme and most users wouldn't reach that point as it involves authenticating as an Administrator via Password twice prior to Virus Activation.

Then again, when installing software I find myself just entering my root password blind because I know I've clicked the install button. When I'd have to give it a second time I'll just think I forgot to type it the first time. Blame multi tasking, it makes an old man forget.

On the other hand, even though there are viruses around, it's still hard to find/obtain one. One file on the internet disappears almost instantly unless specifically linked to. I'm in quite a doubt that we'll see viruses come to Mac any time soon. However, as the user-base grows, the vunurabilties may grow as well.

[Ironman273]

Boy, the one thing that I've learned since Neowin opened up this OSx86 thing is how "special" Apple users think they are. "You can't join our club because you didn't pay the entrance fee of inflated price hardware! No, no, no!" With comments like "Please create a sub-forum so all these second tier users don't infect us" and "Hackintosh will make OSX just like Windows" you sound like crybabies. You guys should be happy that people want to try the software bad enough to put up with the (apparent) hassles in doing it. As it's been shown here, some people have decided that their next purchase will be/was a Mac because of the positive experience with their hackintosh.

[Wannes]

Boy, the one thing that I've learned since Neowin opened up this OSx86 thing is how "special" Apple users think they are. "You can't join our club because you didn't pay the entrance fee of inflated price hardware! No, no, no!" With comments like "Please create a sub-forum so all these second tier users don't infect us" and "Hackintosh will make OSX just like Windows" you sound like crybabies. You guys should be happy that people want to try the software bad enough to put up with the (apparent) hassles in doing it. As it's been shown here, some people have decided that their next purchase will be/was a Mac because of the positive experience with their hackintosh.

Please, it's not about how special someone is. Whether Apple forum is a club or not.

The subforum some requested for is to make the difference between topics on a non-Apple machine and topics on an Apple machine. When you give support for a question such as "My wireless mouse doesn't work" you rather know what machine he's on. x86 will have a lot of driver issues. Also, I have no experience whatsoever with x86 so therefore I won't be able to help people. I'd rather have the Mac subforum the way it was, topics regarding Apple related stuff and a subforum for x86 stuff. It's not because we think we are elite, it's not because we feel better, it's only to keep things organised and simple.

Try changing your furniture in your house around with a few new objects, you won't like the adjustments either because you're used to the previous setup. I know my example is far-fetched but it's just an example at midnight that I'm willing to create.

[Ironman273]

Please, it's not about how special someone is. Whether Apple forum is a club or not.

The subforum some requested for is to make the difference between topics on a non-Apple machine and topics on an Apple machine. When you give support for a question such as "My wireless mouse doesn't work" you rather know what machine he's on. x86 will have a lot of driver issues. Also, I have no experience whatsoever with x86 so therefore I won't be able to help people. I'd rather have the Mac subforum the way it was, topics regarding Apple related stuff and a subforum for x86 stuff. It's not because we think we are elite, it's not because we feel better, it's only to keep things organized and simple.

Try changing your furniture in your house around with a few new objects, you won't like the adjustments either because you're used to the previous setup. I know my example is far-fetched but it's just an example at midnight that I'm willing to create.

Take a look at the way the request is being made. There would be a huge difference if the request sounded logical. It comes off as something more like "please separate us because we don't want to use the same sub-forum as those people." All OSx86 requests are being tagged as such, so you don't even need to click on the topic. And contrary to the FLOOD of posts that others are talking about, I currently only see a handful, definitely not enough to cause mass confusion and pandemonium.

[Cara Veteran]

Take a look at the way the request is being made. There would be a huge difference if the request sounded logical. It comes off as something more like "please separate us because we don't want to use the same sub-forum as those people." All OSx86 requests are being tagged as such, so you don't even need to click on the topic. And contrary to the FLOOD of posts that others are talking about, I currently only see a handful, definitely not enough to cause mass confusion and pandemonium.

I think you are misunderstanding the point that Couch Potato is making to be honest.

What I feel he is trying to say is that when you have users who are using Mac OS X on hardware that it was never intended to be run on, with driver files that are being manipulated to operate with chips that they weren't intended to run on it is going to be much harder to troubleshoot and support than a user running a true Apple Computer which has a predictable operating environment.

Should X86ers get to be more common, I'm rather hoping the entire thing will blow over, then I can see that the clutter for non-Apple hardware support could become a larger problem for the Apple community here on Neowin thus facilitating the need for a separate forum that X86 users can congregate and assist each other much in the same way that Apple users do now in the Apple forums.

Additionally there will be many who chose not to help X86 users as they do not morally or ethically agree with what they are doing, thus it will remove the X86 people out of the view of those people and thus provide both parties a more enjoyable experience here on Neowin.

At current there are not enough posts to need a sub forum, if this changes I'm confident that the Neowin Staff will act swiftly to resolve the congestion.

[EnzoFX]

Is the OP serious? People are posting for help, not blaming the OS, they know it's not intended to run on their hardware....

[Mikee99]

People that are installing OSX on unsupported platforms are going to have alot of issues, then turn around and blame the OS

i can see alot of " OSX sux because it keeps crashing on my AMD64 w/512 DDR "

only saying this because there are already what 3 or 4 threads of people not beign able to get stuff installed properly or askign how to work the OSX86 project ( even though there are probably tutorials on the site

So, because VERY FEW people who make their system into a hackintosh bitch about OS X, that means you hope Apple stops the OSX86 project? Personally, I wish MS would stop PC manufacturers from preloading their systems with tons of craplets and bloatware. That makes way more sense than the previous argument.

People should be able to install whatever software they want on their system. Frankly, it is none of your business as to what a person does to their system.

Some users have mentioned that Apple should do a WGA type of system. WGA on windows completely sucks. It just doesn't work. Not only that, but OS X really doesn't use a serial key. You just install the OS, and for the registration part, you can put in a bunch of BS and skip it. You don't need to connect to the web or call any number to get it activated. Once it's installed, it's good to go. This is very beneficial to the Mac userbase, and removes a lot of headaches from Mac users.

If anything, Apple is very appreciative of the OSX86 project. Really, few OSX86 installs are meant for permanent usage. They are mostly used for experimentation and "look what I can do" antics. It's essentially free advertisement for Apple (or free money if the user actually buys the software).

Look at it like this: By installing OS X, you are showing interest in the product. You get to install it, but it doesn't work all that great because of hardware problems. You know that it's not working properly because it's all hacked up, however, you see what the OS can do, and you become more intrigued by it. You eventually give up, but the seed is planted. The next time you want to buy another computer, that seed begins to grow. You ponder to yourself "should I get a mac or a PC?...Well, I could always use Windows on a Mac if I don't like OS X..." Next thing you know, you're in an Apple store buying a Mac. It's a massive Win for Apple.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

I can't speak on Linux, but there are no viruses for OS X. Microsoft came up with the ActiveX runtime, so in some respect they made their bed and now they have to sleep in it.

...

The only real problems with ActiveX, is that it was inherently insecure, stuff was assumed to be good. Then MS made the "safe for scripting" stuff, which basically asked the ActiveX control if it was safe.

MS are trying to move away from ActiveX in IE (they're pushing for embedded .NET controls, which are sandboxed and run in a lower privileged execution style), It's one of the best things they've done with regards to IE.

[teleprompt]

Well, I could always use Windows on a Mac if I don't like OS X..." Next thing you know, you're in an Apple store buying a Mac. It's a massive Win for Apple.

I think given time, someone will come up with a solution to make installing OSX on a PC very easy and with very few problems.

Someone using a hacked version of OSX doesn't want to buy a mac, they want it to work with what they already have. People using a hacked version of OSX would already be buying macs if they so desired.

It's the adventure. The mystery that needs to be solved. and then the satisfaction when you solve it.

That's what the mac community doesn't understand. PC people like to hack. Like to modify. Like to rip the guts out and rebuild it. We don't want to have to buy a predefined hardware setup just to use an OS. We want the OS to run on what we want it to run on. mac people on the other hand just turn it on and go about their business.

Edited May 30, 2008 by teleprompt

[Ironman273]

I think you are misunderstanding the point that Couch Potato is making to be honest.

What I feel he is trying to say is that when you have users who are using Mac OS X on hardware that it was never intended to be run on, with driver files that are being manipulated to operate with chips that they weren't intended to run on it is going to be much harder to troubleshoot and support than a user running a true Apple Computer which has a predictable operating environment.

Should X86ers get to be more common, I'm rather hoping the entire thing will blow over, then I can see that the clutter for non-Apple hardware support could become a larger problem for the Apple community here on Neowin thus facilitating the need for a separate forum that X86 users can congregate and assist each other much in the same way that Apple users do now in the Apple forums.

Additionally there will be many who chose not to help X86 users as they do not morally or ethically agree with what they are doing, thus it will remove the X86 people out of the view of those people and thus provide both parties a more enjoyable experience here on Neowin.

At current there are not enough posts to need a sub forum, if this changes I'm confident that the Neowin Staff will act swiftly to resolve the congestion.

But do you notice the difference in your argument? It makes perfect sense and is well written in a logical way. I'm just dissapointed at the way some people are acting like those that want to try OSx86 are second-class citizens. Your post does not reflect that at all. You see, I'm not talking about the request being made, it's just how some people are making it.

It's the adventure. The mystery that needs to be solved. and then the satisfaction when you solve it.

That's what the mac community doesn't understand. PC people like to hack. Like to modify. Like to rip the guts out and rebuild it. We don't want to have to buy a predefined hardware setup just to use an OS. We want the OS to run on what we want it to run on. mac people on the other hand just turn it on and go about their business.

I think this hits the nail on the head. The people that are trying this are doing it for the challenge.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

your right it is none of my buisness what they do with their system, but it IS my buisness if the result in that is Apple Hardware Sales gets lower where Apple is no longer able to update the systems as much, or bring out new toys because they are suddenly slouching in the Sales/Income dept. because people would rather run a hackentosh then a full fledged Mac

i hope the crapware from oem systems stops also, MS has already stated that they dont like the OEM's do it, they tried to stop it, but the government forced MS not to do anything and that they cant limit/stop it

Apple bundles OSX with each computer and Price's OSX at $130 bucks, they make money off the systems, that people wont be buying by running a hackintosh

if people want to try play with OSX,, thats what the computers in an Apple store are for, where they can use OSX like its suposed to.

and you mean that if soembody builds a hackintosh out of their windows box, their going to go out and get ANOTHER computer even though the one they already got runs fine that only cost them max $130 ( the cost of OSX ),, it wont be the norm

So, because VERY FEW people who make their system into a hackintosh bitch about OS X, that means you hope Apple stops the OSX86 project? Personally, I wish MS would stop PC manufacturers from preloading their systems with tons of craplets and bloatware. That makes way more sense than the previous argument.

People should be able to install whatever software they want on their system. Frankly, it is none of your business as to what a person does to their system.

Some users have mentioned that Apple should do a WGA type of system. WGA on windows completely sucks. It just doesn't work. Not only that, but OS X really doesn't use a serial key. You just install the OS, and for the registration part, you can put in a bunch of BS and skip it. You don't need to connect to the web or call any number to get it activated. Once it's installed, it's good to go. This is very beneficial to the Mac userbase, and removes a lot of headaches from Mac users.

If anything, Apple is very appreciative of the OSX86 project. Really, few OSX86 installs are meant for permanent usage. They are mostly used for experimentation and "look what I can do" antics. It's essentially free advertisement for Apple (or free money if the user actually buys the software).

Look at it like this: By installing OS X, you are showing interest in the product. You get to install it, but it doesn't work all that great because of hardware problems. You know that it's not working properly because it's all hacked up, however, you see what the OS can do, and you become more intrigued by it. You eventually give up, but the seed is planted. The next time you want to buy another computer, that seed begins to grow. You ponder to yourself "should I get a mac or a PC?...Well, I could always use Windows on a Mac if I don't like OS X..." Next thing you know, you're in an Apple store buying a Mac. It's a massive Win for Apple.

[hjf288]

Ahh the warmth the hatred of the Cult of Mac brings to me..

I think I'm gonna install OS X on my EEE PC just so I can bath some more in it, The Mac Mini can go into the basement so I'm not using 2 copies at the same time :)

But seriously, the posts here are right - Why do you care... dont you have lives to be going on with rather than whining about some people installing OS X on their pcs?

[strong language]

<-- I first thought it was comedy but thats how I feel Mac fanboys really act if given the chance.

[DrunkenMaster]

your right it is none of my buisness what they do with their system, but it IS my buisness if the result in that is Apple Hardware Sales gets lower where Apple is no longer able to update the systems as much, or bring out new toys because they are suddenly slouching in the Sales/Income dept. because people would rather run a hackentosh then a full fledged Mac

I think what you are suggesting is that Apple is pricing itself out of the market. I would agree. It goes back to my last argument about the older-refurb and cheaper entry-level PCs. The major autodealers, are losing a ton of money because they don't listen to their consumers and the market is inundated with cheaper (and usually) better quality foreign made cars. And with this economy and gas prices, a used car or new motorocycle isn't such a bad idea.

Sure everyone said the 'nixes would have an OS X-like system by now. Hasn't happened and probably won't. I'm using Windows XP exclusively instead of OS X after 3 years. Does Windows crash? Sure. But as I think more about it, there really is not anything that made me more productive with OS X. Workflow is shenanigans. Using OS X is enjoyable but I don't understand how it == a business model.

[Eric Veteran]

Ok, for one that's a trojan, not a virus. Two, this is a social engineering issue and has nothing to do with any security flaw in OS X.

http://www.ambrosiasw.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=102379

http://guides.macrumors.com/OSX/Leap-A

Based upon your statement, those are trojans, not viruses.

A Trojan can trash a computer just as badly as a virus, if not more so. Also, the safety argument holds little merit. While I run a virus scanner, I've never encountered a Windows virus, and only once an e-mail Trojan and the anti-virus caught that. So I guess I don't need a Mac to avoid viruses. The infection rate is a function of market share.

[Wannes]

I think you are misunderstanding the point that Couch Potato is making to be honest.

What I feel he is trying to say is that when you have users who are using Mac OS X on hardware that it was never intended to be run on, with driver files that are being manipulated to operate with chips that they weren't intended to run on it is going to be much harder to troubleshoot and support than a user running a true Apple Computer which has a predictable operating environment.

Should X86ers get to be more common, I'm rather hoping the entire thing will blow over, then I can see that the clutter for non-Apple hardware support could become a larger problem for the Apple community here on Neowin thus facilitating the need for a separate forum that X86 users can congregate and assist each other much in the same way that Apple users do now in the Apple forums.

Additionally there will be many who chose not to help X86 users as they do not morally or ethically agree with what they are doing, thus it will remove the X86 people out of the view of those people and thus provide both parties a more enjoyable experience here on Neowin.

At current there are not enough posts to need a sub forum, if this changes I'm confident that the Neowin Staff will act swiftly to resolve the congestion.

Thank you Cara! The only difference I have in my argument is that when they should get more common that they will get a subforum rather than just blow over, because it won't. ;)

But do you notice the difference in your argument? It makes perfect sense and is well written in a logical way. I'm just dissapointed at the way some people are acting like those that want to try OSx86 are second-class citizens. Your post does not reflect that at all. You see, I'm not talking about the request being made, it's just how some people are making it.

I'm sorry. English isn't my first language, it's not even my second language. I try my best to make my posts as clear as I can but sometimes I have a hard time doing so. My apologies if I may sound/read a little complicated.

[FloatingFatMan]

I'm pretty sure that, at the moment, Apple CAN'T stop people running OSX on their home built PC's, simply because that 1984 ruling overrides any terms they can specify in the EULA. If they want to stop people doing it, they're going to have to lobby for a law prohibiting it, and there is little hope of that ever happening.

Personally, I think Apple should embrace OSX on other hardware. It gets their OS exposed to an audience that just can't afford Apple's hardware prices, and I really don't see how that can be a bad thing really. As the OS gets more widely used; more developers will take note and start to write more software for it, including games which are sorely lacking, and ultimately everyone wins.

All they'd have to do is make it clear on install that it will be unsupported by them, and that drivers for their hardware may not be available. Hell, it wouldn't even be too difficult to run an activation process if non-Apple hardware is detected; to cut down on casual piracy.

[osirisX]

Personally, I think Apple should embrace OSX on other hardware. It gets their OS exposed to an audience that just can't afford Apple's hardware prices, and I really don't see how that can be a bad thing really. As the OS gets more widely used; more developers will take note and start to write more software for it, including games which are sorely lacking, and ultimately everyone wins.

$2000 != $129. It's as simple as that.

[Popcorned1]

If they want to stop people doing it, they're going to have to lobby for a law prohibiting it, and there is little hope of that ever happening.

If you got enough money in the USA anything can happen, but I agree FloatingFatMan. I would be inclined to a least look at the features of a Mac OSX if it wasn't tied down to the hardware. I know people who have used it on osx86 and love it, but can't afford the hardware to go with it.

[darkz]

even if you can afford, it's nice to check the os out before buying a whole new computer for it.

[Gersson]

even if you can afford, it's nice to check the os out before buying a whole new computer for it.

excuse me...that's too logical. Logic has no place within these forums! :p

I think people are just insecure about having paid so much money for something people are using for a LOAD lot less.

[Shadrack]

Microsoft came up with the ActiveX runtime, so in some respect they made their bed and now they have to sleep in it.

Hmmm... I'm probably in the minority but ActiveX is one of the major features of Windows that keeps me on the platform. I love ActiveX. Because of ActiveX my whole job is a hell of a lot easier. I've never had any security problems with it because I practice the most basic precautions (firewall/AV/knock on wood). But MS should have done a better job in ActiveX security when they implemented the beast.

[evo_spook]

even if you can afford, it's nice to check the os out before buying a whole new computer for it.

So you mean pirate which the Neowin mods in their innocence doesnt' think goes hand in hand with OSx86 and so blows the subject way open as they are welcoming wares discussion.

[funciona]

Ok, for one that's a trojan, not a virus.

Based upon your statement, those are trojans, not viruses.

In the context of computing and software, a Trojan horse, or simply trojan, is a piece of software which appears to perform a certain action but in fact performs another such as transmitting a computer virus

Don't defend Macs just because they are white. PCs come in all colors.

[Elv13]

As it is illegal, I am amazed such sites even exist without gaining the attention of Apple's lawyers.

They know about it. Before they ship the first Intel mac, apple was tolerating (if not appreciated those website). Most of universal binary apps that were there in the first half of 2006 were the fruit of the osx86project work. When apple started to ship Intel mac, they send a letter to osx86 to close the website, but osx86 accepted to "filter" the site to remove every -link- to illegal stuff, maxor site and torrent. After that apple did leave them alone and never send legal letter again. Now, osx86project produce a lot of code (mostly drivers). Some of this code is probably -in- leopard official version (through the Darwin project).

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

So you mean pirate which the Neowin mods in their innocence doesnt' think goes hand in hand with OSx86 and so blows the subject way open as they are welcoming wares discussion.

You can do it quite legally with a retail disk, you're the one assuming it's 100% pirated copies.

Sure, people will use pirated copies, but people also use pirated copies of Windows, doesn't mean we're not going to allow people to talk about Windows.