Mac OS X Lion Discussion

[.Neo]

Why not have that experience on OS X?

Because some people simply can't deal with changes. It's like all those people on Neowin still using Windows XP and going crazy about Internet Explorer 9 not running on it.

[game_over]

It's so annoying that people even consider writing that apple are going to close down OSX to an AppStore.

It would be complete desktop suicide.

It works for mobile devices, not for desktop.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

The Mac App Store makes total sense. 50% of the Macs sold this past quarter were to first-time Mac owners, a lot of them interested in a Mac having used an iPhone or iPad. One of the first things (if not the first) people do when they open up their new iOS device is hit the App Store and download an array of games and apps.

Why not have that experience on OS X?

True, the amount of people who have bought macs, iPod Touches or iPhones and came to me asking "what are the best apps" is ridiculous. Hell, even NW gets topics like that almost weekly.

[.Neo]

It's so annoying that people even consider writing that apple are going to close down OSX to an AppStore.

It would be complete desktop suicide.

It works for mobile devices, not for desktop.

Exactly. At college we use a specially written application to manage our accounts. It doesn't make much sense for them to put that in the App Store considering only we need it.

[Guest]

True, the amount of people who have bought macs, iPod Touches or iPhones and came to me asking "what are the best apps" is ridiculous. Hell, even NW gets topics like that almost weekly.

I still don't think the App Store is a convenient way to find 'good' apps, but it's a start.

I rarely browse the App Store on the off chance I'll find something good, simply because it is too diluted with junk.

[Vice]

It's one distribution channel. Apple will never close down OS X, nor do they have any reason to. They know that would be too drastic.

Apple is all about serving the total package they want a slice of everything and eventually they will want 30% from all apps sold regardless. Eventually they will make it more difficult for app developers to release Mac software that isn't served via their store. Things like providing API's only to App Store approved apps with security certificates, offering driver level access only to certified apps. Stuff like that.

I know it's coming and I think you all do too. Once it does I'm out of the Mac ecosystem as-well. I'm sure they will sell like hot cakes regardless but for me Closed is not something I want on my computer. I was willing to make a concession on my Mobile Device because it was the birthing of a new platform and software installs on mobile devices was always painful before the App Store came about. But Computers? This is a whole other territory where we have enjoyed openness for many years, I am not willing to lose that just for a store front with a search field.

In your post you say 'Apple will never close down OS X' people said the same thing about their move in to the Mobile space 'Apple will never make a Phone, it just isn't their business' and their switch to Intel 'Apple will never move to x86 processors, it would be to difficult'.

If there is one thing we know it is that predicting what Apple will do and making your ideas conservative and reasonable will only mean you will end up being wrong because Apple is not a conservative company. It was not so long ago that they outright banned applications on the iPhone that used emulators or execution layers above the normal stuff just to make it more difficult for app developers to port software between devices (Android <-> iPhone). And they still do not support Flash on the iPhone and they just announced that they will no longer be updating their Java runtimes within OS X on the desktop. Let us be clear, Apple cares about Apple and they don't give a toss about any other developer which is why a locked down Mac where they take a slice of every pie is right up their street and totally not out of the question.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

I still don't think the App Store is a convenient way to find 'good' apps, but it's a start.

I rarely browse the App Store on the off chance I'll find something good, simply because it is too diluted with junk.

I believe we'll see a redesign when Mac App Store launches. Seeing as it's not constrained by running in iTunes, it'll probably be a lot nicer to browse.

[neo1911]

The day when My MBP restricts me from tweaking/modding/installing apps I want, is the day I will switch to windows again :D

Simple isn't it ?

[meccs]

The day when My MBP restricts me from tweaking/modding/installing apps I want, is the day I will switch to windows again :D

Simple isn't it ?

Simple yes but this WILL happen eventually! Sooner or later...

[Xtreme $niper]

Did you watch the Keynote? The App Store will be an easier way for developers to distribute their apps, but not the only way. Life will still go on the same way, BUT the App Store will come in.

Seems you guys didn't read my post very well. I said if this was Jobs' way of transitioning us into the idea of closed app environment on OS X, I'd be out. I never said that this would be a closed app environment from the get-go.

I agree with all of you that it's unlikely and it would kill OS X, but Apple is unpredictable like that. Since when have they not done something because it was "unlikely"? All I'm saying is that I'm worried about the future of OS X. Not Lion, but maybe the next version. Apple is getting too swept up in it's iOS dreamland.

[.Neo]

Simple yes but this WILL happen eventually! Sooner or later...

If and when that happens it's more than likely Microsoft will jump on board sooner rather than later as well. There have been talks about an App Store in Windows 8. So beyond switching to Linux, where does that leave you?

[instant.human]

Apple won't do it. Or will, but not for every line of their products. See, the consumer products might very well one day run some kind of iOS on steroids, pretty closed but offering the best possible experience for the user with easy to find apps for everyday tasks and nice revenue for Apple.

However, products like the iMac or the Mac Pro and imho even the MacBook Pros will never be closed. There is too much to loose. Apple still has a veritable market share among media pros, designers, movie editors, writers and coders that just like to use Mac (although I am aware that all of these tasks can be done with a Windows-machine aswell, not the issue here) and those are customers Apple wants to keep. Sure thing, they might not be the biggest group of customers of Apples but then again, there is still an iPod Classic.

If they "locked down" some kind of consumer OS for the lower end machines, I must say that would not be that bad at all, imho. Afterall, you can still not buy it, if you don't like it. And for the regular customer, that would be quite nice. Less harm from the outside, only quality apps, "all-in-one-experience"... We might hate it but Average Joe would love it. Simple to use, minimal... bought!

But as I said, I don't think Apple is stupid enough to close down their ENTIRE lineup. Most of it, maybe. But not EVERYTHING.

Plus, I for myself, would kinda like that, infact. Great quality control, sure thing, some programs might be missing but I have no interest in running some alpha version of Firefox. While I prefare Chrome anyways, I prefare having a final built here. It's the same reason why I like the closed iOS ecosystem... I don't need root access for everyday tasks. As long as they have Photoshop, InDesign and WriteRoom in Stock, I wouldn't mind a closed ecosystem for sure.

[giga Veteran]

Apple won't do it. Or will, but not for every line of their products. See, the consumer products might very well one day run some kind of iOS on steroids, pretty closed but offering the best possible experience for the user with easy to find apps for everyday tasks and nice revenue for Apple.

However, products like the iMac or the Mac Pro and imho even the MacBook Pros will never be closed. There is too much to loose. Apple still has a veritable market share among media pros, designers, movie editors, writers and coders that just like to use Mac (although I am aware that all of these tasks can be done with a Windows-machine aswell, not the issue here) and those are customers Apple wants to keep. Sure thing, they might not be the biggest group of customers of Apples but then again, there is still an iPod Classic.

If they "locked down" some kind of consumer OS for the lower end machines, I must say that would not be that bad at all, imho. Afterall, you can still not buy it, if you don't like it. And for the regular customer, that would be quite nice. Less harm from the outside, only quality apps, "all-in-one-experience"... We might hate it but Average Joe would love it. Simple to use, minimal... bought!

But as I said, I don't think Apple is stupid enough to close down their ENTIRE lineup. Most of it, maybe. But not EVERYTHING.

I was just about to say the exact same thing. The conspiracy theories are overwrought.

[game_over]

I know why people can see it but it's going in the complete opposite direction an OS should be going in, if Apple can't see that then they are a bunch of idiots, which they aren't. So it wont happen.

[Xtreme $niper]

Apple won't do it. Or will, but not for every line of their products. See, the consumer products might very well one day run some kind of iOS on steroids, pretty closed but offering the best possible experience for the user with easy to find apps for everyday tasks and nice revenue for Apple.

However, products like the iMac or the Mac Pro and imho even the MacBook Pros will never be closed. There is too much to loose. Apple still has a veritable market share among media pros, designers, movie editors, writers and coders that just like to use Mac (although I am aware that all of these tasks can be done with a Windows-machine aswell, not the issue here) and those are customers Apple wants to keep. Sure thing, they might not be the biggest group of customers of Apples but then again, there is still an iPod Classic.

If they "locked down" some kind of consumer OS for the lower end machines, I must say that would not be that bad at all, imho. Afterall, you can still not buy it, if you don't like it. And for the regular customer, that would be quite nice. Less harm from the outside, only quality apps, "all-in-one-experience"... We might hate it but Average Joe would love it. Simple to use, minimal... bought!

But as I said, I don't think Apple is stupid enough to close down their ENTIRE lineup. Most of it, maybe. But not EVERYTHING.

Plus, I for myself, would kinda like that, infact. Great quality control, sure thing, some programs might be missing but I have no interest in running some alpha version of Firefox. While I prefare Chrome anyways, I prefare having a final built here. It's the same reason why I like the closed iOS ecosystem... I don't need root access for everyday tasks. As long as they have Photoshop, InDesign and WriteRoom in Stock, I wouldn't mind a closed ecosystem for sure.

I can agree with this.

[neo1911]

And for heavens sake, when is apple going to introduce cut/paste feature for files and folders? A very useful feature being left out just to show "we are different from windows." I hope it's in OSX Lion.

[.Neo]

And for heavens sake, when is apple going to introduce cut/paste feature for files and folders? A very useful feature being left out just to show "we are different from windows." I hope it's in OSX Lion.

Apple decided to leave cmd + X out of the Finder because it could be potentially be destructive if a user were to accidentally hit it and then do something else. So it's not left out just for the sake of being different than Windows.

I missed cmd + X for about a week when I switched to Mac OS X and then got over it. At this point I can't say I even miss not having it. Dragging and dropping works perfectly fine for me, especially because folders, stacks and windows are spring-loaded. A feature Windows lacks.

[threesixtyflip]

Because some people simply can't deal with changes. It's like all those people on Neowin still using Windows XP and going crazy about Internet Explorer 9 not running on it.

QFT!!!!

[Xtreme $niper]

Apple decided to leave cmd + X out of the Finder because it could be potentially be destructive if a user were to accidentally hit it and then do something else. So it's not left out just for the sake of being different than Windows.

I missed cmd + X for about a week when I switched to Mac OS X and then got over it. At this point I can't say I even miss not having it. Dragging and dropping works perfectly fine for me, especially because folders, stacks and windows are spring-loaded. A feature Windows lacks.

Yup. I never cut and paste anyway. There was a time when using Windows XP that I cut and paste a bunch of files, and some error occurred during the transfer half way. I lost a good chunk of the files because they simply disappeared for no reason.

Ever since, I've simply copied and pasted everything. And if I really need to just move a small file, I'll drag and drop. I even forgot this was even an "issue".

[instant.human]

I didn't even notice that it was not there, when I came back to Apple in the Panther days. I only realized it wasn't there a few years later, when everyone on the internetz seemed to miss it. For reasons I cannot imagine.

But then again I am not so much of a... Finder power user... or whoever that may be, who is in desperate need of a new Finder and misses cut/paste every single day...

[.Neo]

But then again I am not so much of a... Finder power user... or whoever that may be, who is in desperate need of a new Finder and misses cut/paste every single day...

I don't get why people are still obsessed with file/folder management. I hardly spend any time in the Finder beyond installing a new application, create backups or delete the occasional obsolete download.

[instant.human]

I don't get why people are still obsessed with file/folder management. I hardly spend any time in the Finder beyond installing a new application, create backups or delete the occasional obsolete download.

QFT. I don't even do that. I got stacks for my Applications, Downloads, most important Documents and recent projects. I do it all from there and hardly ever see a Finder-window... Let alone feel the need to cut and paste.

[Xero]

I use the Finder more than any other application. Some of you may not need it but millions of us do. Finder could really use some help but TotalFinder has eased my concerns. mmm tabs.

[PNWDweller]

I haven't really been following this thread, but did skim the last few pages or so.

I am not making a decision just yet if I am going to migrate from Snow Leopard to Lion next summer. From what I have read on the net and seen in pics, vids etc... it really isn't enough to get me "pumped" up to go out and buy it. I am fully aware that what they did was merely show a WIP for them concerning Lion and that features will probably (hopefully) be added to help motivate me from moving away from where I am now. I would hope that they do unlock the 64-bit boot modes for people like me that can, but Apple doesn't think I can. (Mid-2007 iMac 20"). Sure, I know that I really don't need that feature and that natively Snow Leopard will run programs as 64-bit which are written that way from the 32-bit kernel, but it is one of those things that bugs me a bit. Or perhaps some new enhancements to the functionality like they did with Snow Leopard from Leopard (Being able to keep a grid open and browse into a folder and go back in the Application folder inside the dock for example).

I can maybe see them pushing a more "unified" GUI moving away from the currently mixed one they have right now. I sense that they will be moving in that direction for the native apps like Finder and other ones. Probably with the "traffic lights" being moved to the left like they are with the recent iTunes release. It is too early though to speculate beyond that for me.

[Quillz]

I use the Finder more than any other application. Some of you may not need it but millions of us do. Finder could really use some help but TotalFinder has eased my concerns. mmm tabs.

TotalFinder is one of those Finder extensions that I wish Apple would buy and fully integrate into Mac OS X. It works really well, but obviously will never be as deeply integrated as it could be, due to it being a third-party extension, and thus prone to weird bugs and random crashes.