Microsoft asks consumers to

[xWhiplash]

One more thing: Advertisements. You get a nice new PC and what do you see? Free trials of everything and bloat! I always do a complete format right when I get a PC. No wonder why companies can sell PCs cheaper, they put the ads on there to sell it to you cheaper.

[NEVER85]

Windows assumes that you are a complete incompetent idiot and locks your out of everything pretty much...

You REALLY have no idea what you're talking about. First a keyboard decreases your WPM, and now this? Give it up. Re-educate yourself.

[Samurizer]

Disappointing really. Also even though it is a Quad it's an old one and only 1.73GHz. Even lacks battery life compared to the MacBook Pro by over an hour and almost a pound heavier. Quite a lot of concessions for only $500 cheaper in my opinion. I'd for a start want the fastest processor since its not upgradable while Memory and Hard Disk are.

*facepalms* Dude. For $500 extra you probably could've bought TWO i7 Sandy Bridge processors. I hope you also realize that the offerings listed on the site are hardly the only available alternatives or prices available. Like I said, I could get the Envy for $1.5k-ish, or if I wanted, a high-quality Asus for about $2k that beats the MBP on every spec and still costs $300 less.

And being "disappointed" about 5.6hr battery life and 350 grams of extra weight? Really? Because obviously that's worth paying $500 for, and because obviously 17" 7lbs quad-core i7 notebooks are meant to be lugged around with you all day instead of sitting at home being a desktop replacement, right?

[Sir Nick]

The 'Chick Pea' keyboard that current Macs have is really nice to type on and doesn't lower ones WPM. I dunno where you heard that but it's just rubbish.

So you could be infected right now and wouldn't even know it. :huh:

Well ...Unless you go around Clicking random links, and going to Porn sites that usually have malware, spyware and downloading lots of files...and attachments people send you in mail... with the subject line: Bank of America Alert Card suspended! Download This! or WOW alert Your account has been suspended! Download this and give us your info to reinstate account! .... Then you usually shouldn't have a problem..... I haven't used anti viruses in years..... just checked my computer with AVG antivirus, and a malware checker , and MS antivirus ( which is free and DOES come with windows, it's if you choose to install it ) and no viruses. :) maybe you need to do some checking cause the so called GREAT AND IMMUNE MAC isn't so immune as you think... Every computer on the internet is exposed to whatever YOU Put on it.

[Vice]

*facepalms* Dude. For $500 extra you probably could've bought TWO i7 Sandy Bridge processors. I hope you also realize that the offerings listed on the site are hardly the only available alternatives or prices available. Like I said, I could get the Envy for $1.5k-ish, or if I wanted, a high-quality Asus for about $2k that beats the MBP on every spec and still costs $300 less.

And being "disappointed" about 5.6hr battery life and 350 grams of extra weight? Really? Because obviously that's worth paying $500 for, and because obviously 17" 7lbs quad-core i7 notebooks are meant to be lugged around with you all day instead of sitting at home being a desktop replacement, right?

The mobile processors from Intel are very expensive. I doubt $500 would buy two good i7 processors. Maybe last gen 1.66GHz ones but not current ones. And yeah I'm disappointed that a notebook that costs $1800 doesn't have a better battery life. And I question how HP comes to their battery life testing. Apple used to quote 11 hours before they stepped up their game by using better testing which included WiFi and good screen brightness. The Apple Notebooks have huge batteries.

And yeah I do take my MacBook Pro around with me. Because it is light enough to do so. It's only 6.6 Pounds. The Toshiba that Microsoft lists for example in the 15" bracket weighs 6.6 Pounds. And another one in the 15" bracket weighs 6.14 Pounds. You suggest people who buy those don't take them with them either? - I have a desktop I don't need another one I need a Laptop that is why I bought a MacBook Pro and I like having a large screen on the go which is why I bought the 17" Model. I have two 30" Displays at home on my desk the 17" is dwarfed in comparison. The site is just silly in its comparisons and like other posters have pointed out it kind of pushes you towards a Mac but of course no buy links for those at the bottom of the charts :p

Those new iMacs have 27" 2560x1440 displays, dual display port/thunderbolt take Video in and have the latest Z67 chipset which isn't even out yet for another week. Apple exclusive. Not to mention the CPU in the iMac is now socketed and removable as is the graphics module, memory and hard disk. The other desktop systems do not even come close to the iMac and as I've shown the Notebooks don't come close to the MacBook Pro either.

Microsofts argument is basically you can get a cheaper Windows computer if you sacrifice features. Well I'd like to sacrifice Windows and get a PC without an OS and install Linux on it. Let's really cut corners.

[Samurizer]

Out of curiosity, what are you doing outdoors that requires an i7 quad core, top-end GPU, and more than 5.6hrs battery life? O_o

Looked up a local catalogue BTW, a desktop Sandy Bridge i7 costs about $270-300. The mobile CPUs would be a tad cheaper; so, yeah, probably not two of them, but close.

[Vice]

Out of curiosity, what are you doing outdoors that requires an i7 quad core, top-end GPU, and more than 5.6hrs battery life? O_o

Video Editing, Software Development, Photo Manipulation & Photography, Virtual Machines for testing my software in a variety of operating systems. Take your pick I guess?

It is also my life machine where I do most of my web surfing, all my email, Instant Messaging, it holds all my music, I VPN to my remote servers via VNC/RDP. It is my workstation away from home. And with such a huge workload I need a lot of display real estate, memory and processor performance. Not to mention battery life.

Btw I dunno how long you've been following CPU prices but I can tell you right now the Mobile versions of Intels desktop CPU's always cost twice as much for the same MHz, if they even reach the same speed as the desktop parts - This is due to the mobile parts having a much lower Thermal Design Power and requiring expensive binning of premium low voltage dies. It has always been like this even with Conroe, Penryn and so on.

[Samurizer]

The other desktop systems do not even come close to the iMac and as I've shown the Notebooks don't come close to the MacBook Pro either.

Desktops aren't my specialty, but no, you've shown nothing of that sort for notebooks. You could get a model with a better CPU and higher battery watts (or just a second battery, if you really need that much juice) and still pay less than for the MBP, at the staggering drawback of 350 grams extra. :rolleyes:

Video Editing, Software Development, Photo Manipulation & Photography, Virtual Machines for testing my software in a variety of operating systems. Take your pick I guess?

So let me get this straight, you're doing all those while sitting at a McDonalds' joint or on the bus or something?

[Sir Nick]

Lets not forget the software that you get with a Mac vs a PC.

iLife alone, for me at least, makes up for the differences. GarageBand blows anything available for Windows out of the water in terms of ease of use. Yes I did try the big audio programs in Windows: FL Studio and the one sony makes to list a couple. They all sucked compared to GarageBand. I opened up GB and knew exactly how to use it after about an hour. I spent a week messing with FL Studio and I could not stand the UI. So yes, iLife is added to the price of the mac, so you are not just getting Hardware + OS. Add iLife in there as well.

Future OS X? One thing I cannot stand about MS and Windows is that there are so many versions and a hefty price for it. Granted 7 has less versions than Vista, but I believe there should only be two (three including Enterprise). XP only had two in the beginning until Media Center edition. Why did vista have so many? Also, why do I see $255-$300 netbooks come with Windows 7 Starter? It might be different now, but come on. Apple only has one version of OS X, two if you count Server and is always around $129 for the full license (apple box which includes iLife and iWork).

On to Office. I love...LOVE Office 2010. 2007 was a joke compared to 2010, it just feels perfect. But there is still a problem I have with it. Again, why so many versions? Also, if you want to use it for business use, you have to spend $280+ for office?! Apple has a version known as iWork. Now compared to Office, it is not as good. However, there is one version at $80.

When you compare Mac vs PC, you have to look at everything. See what it includes, is it worth it to you? You are not just getting the hardware and the OS, you are also getting one of the easiest and best productivity suites available: iLife. Not to mention you will have access to even better applications like Final Cut Express/Studio and Logic Express/Studio.

Not to mention if you like your applications to be nice and clean, pretty much 70% of the OS X applications are perfectly usable and look very nice. The two best looking apps I have installed are Transmit for FTP transfers, and Versions for an SVN client.

It more depends what you are going to use your computer for. Windows is better for gamers because there is more games that are only on windows. And you can make your own Awesome computer with windows home premium. Windows premium =$179 I made a awesome computer for around $1200 dollars I can add 24 DDR 3 RAM= 2nd to best video card = 2nd to best CPU = 1 TB hard drive =

you can get a 3 TB hard drive now on NEWGG for around $100. RAM is pretty cheap there also.... You can make a awesome computer for less than buying a mac with Possibly newest just came out hardware. Your going to have #1. more space then a mac #2. more RAM. #3 Depending on what you want Newer Hardware. All for less

Oh and did I mention you can get a very cool case with ANYTHING you want Lights/ cool alien design totally customizable!! ALL for LESS tHAN THE MAC DESKTOP !!!

So please do some research first... Macs might be better for Business end, it really depends what software you are going to use.... Building your own computer is cheaper if you know how. And since your insulting windows, I'll now insult MAC. Mac is quite possibly easier for older people who don't know what a computer is and need everything explained to them. It is possibly debatable that windows might be a little harder to use, but frankly I don't care. If you don't want to spend 2,600 dollars for nothing when you can build your own better for cheaper and exceed a MAC, then buy windows, and build your own desktop!

[Vice]

Desktops aren't my specialty, but no, you've shown nothing of that sort for notebooks. You could get a model with a better CPU and higher battery watts (or just a second battery, if you really need that much juice) and still pay less than for the MBP, at the staggering drawback of 350 grams extra. :rolleyes:

Better enclosure (More desirable, easier to recycle and better on the environment)

Glass Display (Same as above)

Glass Multi-Touch Trackpad (Simply beats all other trackpads)

MagSafe Connector (Magnetically held in connector protects notebook from accidents)

Longer Battery Life

Backlight Keyboard + Ambient Light Sensor (Adjusts Screen and Keyboard Brightness)

Lighter + Thinner

Up to 16GB RAM support standard

Thunderbolt connectors standard with Display Port which is backwards compatible with HDMI (with sound) and DVI and can drive up to a 30" Display

Latest CPU's from Intel no last-generation or slower AMD Phenom processors

But of course none of this matters to you in this comparison. Just the price. I think all this ^ Is worth $500 extra over that HP model.

So let me get this straight, you're doing all those while sitting at a McDonalds' joint or on the bus or something?

haha no. You are funny though.

[xWhiplash]

It more depends what you are going to use your computer for. Windows is better for gamers because there is more games that are only on windows. And you can make your own Awesome computer with windows home premium. Windows premium =$179 I made a awesome computer for around $1200 dollars I can add 24 DDR 3 RAM= 2nd to best video card = 2nd to best CPU = 1 TB hard drive =

you can get a 3 TB hard drive now on NEWGG for around $100. RAM is pretty cheap there also.... You can make a awesome computer for less than buying a mac with Possibly newest just came out hardware. Your going to have #1. more space then a mac #2. more RAM. #3 Depending on what you want Newer Hardware. All for less

Oh and did I mention you can get a very cool case with ANYTHING you want Lights/ cool alien design totally customizable!! ALL for LESS tHAN THE MAC DESKTOP !!!

So please do some research first... Macs might be better for Business end, it really depends what software you are going to use.... Building your own computer is cheaper if you know how. And since your insulting windows, I'll now insult MAC. Mac is quite possibly easier for older people who don't know what a computer is and need everything explained to them. It is possibly debatable that windows might be a little harder to use, but frankly I don't care. If you don't want to spend 2,600 dollars for nothing when you can build your own better for cheaper and exceed a MAC, then buy windows, and build your own desktop!

First of all, this is Mac vs Dell, HP, and various other companies. Build your own vs ANY COMPANY is cheaper, so leave that out of this. Also, in what way am I insulting windows? I am just stating fact that people are obviously ignore some of the best parts of the Mac when doing the comparison.

[Scorbing]

Microsoft asks consumers to ?do the math? before buying a Mac

Microsoft has launched a new Mac vs PC site.

The new site, ?Do the Math?, launched in Canada recently and aims to compare Mac based computers to several PC counterparts. Microsoft has put together comparison charts for the following Macs:

• MacBook 13
  
• MacBook Air 11
  
• MacBook Air 13
  
• MacBook pro 13
  
• MacBook Pro 15
  
• MacBook Pro 17
  
• iMac 25.1
  
• iMac 27
  

The comparisons feature Samsung, HP, ASUS, Sony, Dell, Acer and Toshiba machines. Most of the machine comparisons feature the same or better configurations to their Mac counterparts. ?Surf the web or surf Hawaii,? says Microsoft. ?The choice is yours. When you a buy a PC this summer, you?ll have tons of cash left over to spend on other things.?

Microsoft has previously produced a number of TV commercials featuring Mac cost comparisons. The software giant launched a series of ?Laptop hunter? commercials in early 2009. The adverts kick started the successful ?I?m a PC? campaign that Microsoft went on to use for its Windows 7 adverts.

Source: winrumors

Link: "Do the Math"

Here. I'll do the math:

1. Mac OSX is more stable and less prone to "hick ups" than Windows

2. Mac OSX has no registry or DLL files

3. Macs have less chances of catching a virus or malware than Windows

4. Mac software is beautifully designed and awesome

5. iMovie and iPhoto are super awesome. The Windows alternative sucks...really bad.

6. Macs are built to last. Solid and they simply work and do what they are supposed to do everytime

7. mac laptops batteries last an eternity compared to PC laptops

I have a Mac. Bought it a year and a half ago. NEVER had any problems with it. No freezes, no hick ups, no nothing. It works. There is nothing that can beat a Mac when it comes to photo, video and music editing. Windows simply can't compete. The latest Windows Live Essentials software is a complete joke, especially Live Movie.

I use Ubuntu as well and even Ubuntu has better software to edit video than Microsoft does.

[Udedenkz]

You REALLY have no idea what you're talking about. First a keyboard decreases your WPM, and now this? Give it up. Re-educate yourself.

An OS needs to be idiot friendly. You do realize that Average User = Idiot right? I do not like using politically appropriate language. Some people do not know what they are doing, do not know how the OS works - even in the very basic sense, and associate the Internet with Internet Explorer.

Windows *IS* idiot friendly - it protects the user with a bunch of features like the UAC, watching an AVI or MP4 is easy and doesn't require codecs, updates are automatic, etc... A good example of an OS that is not meant for idiots would be something like Fedora.

My University is overrun with these apple parasites, they all have this keyboard that is uttermost sh*t - I cannot use it. It is like typing on a piece of wood or more accurately plastic. I am not sure what kind of a 'genius' designed that thing, but it is light-years BEHIND the dell keyboard in usability.

And people are still using them, the ****? the ****?1 My laptop keyboard is BETTER than that.

Actually scratch that, my laptop keyboard is MUCH BETTER than that.

One more thing: Advertisements. You get a nice new PC and what do you see? Free trials of everything and bloat! I always do a complete format right when I get a PC. No wonder why companies can sell PCs cheaper, they put the ads on there to sell it to you cheaper.

THIS IS A VALID ARGUMENT.

Removing all the bloatware HP puts on their computers cuts the boot time by more than HALF.

F***ers just want to get money by pre-installing horrible bloat.

Oh and the first time you boot, you will have to wait (more time than a clean Windows 7 install takes to finish) for their bloatware to install before being able to use the PC.

[Sir Nick]

First of all, this is Mac vs Dell, HP, and various other companies. Build your own vs ANY COMPANY is cheaper, so leave that out of this. Also, in what way am I insulting windows? I am just stating fact that people are obviously ignore some of the best parts of the Mac when doing the comparison.

Huh... Yet the TOPIC READS Microsoft asks consumers to ?do the math? before buying a Mac

[Samurizer]

Better enclosure (More desirable, easier to recycle and better on the environment)

Glass Display (Same as above)

Glass Multi-Touch Trackpad (Simply beats all other trackpads)

MagSafe Connector (Magnetically held in connector protects notebook from accidents)

Longer Battery Life

Backlight Keyboard + Ambient Light Sensor (Adjusts Screen and Keyboard Brightness)

Lighter + Thinner

Up to 16GB RAM support standard

Thunderbolt connectors standard with Display Port which is backwards compatible with HDMI (with sound) and DVI and can drive up to a 30" Display

Latest CPU's from Intel no last-generation or slower AMD Phenom processors

But of course none of this matters to you in this comparison. Just the price. I think all this ^ Is worth $500 extra over that HP model.

It doesn't matter because, workmanship-wise, the HP comes close enough. Again, you're pretending that the models that were compared against are shoddy machines that makes paying a few hundred dollars extra for some glass and 350g less weight so special. That's why the Envy was selected to compare to the MBP 17" instead of a lower-quality notebook with superior specs.

You nailed it on the head when you said that glass is "more desirable". That's pretty much it, basically.

haha no. You are funny though.

Feel free to enlighten me. Where else would you be using it outdoors? In a park? On the plane? Airport?

You're right though, it IS funny, because most people don't buy a 17", 3kg, quad-core laptop to carry around. You say you do, so I'm just curious.

[xWhiplash]

Huh... Yet the TOPIC READS Microsoft asks consumers to ?do the math? before buying a Mac

Then how is your argument different than if they say "do the math before buying HP". Building yourself always wins. So nobody buy from Dell, HP or any other horrible company.

[Sir Nick]

Then how is your argument different than if they say "do the math before buying HP". Building yourself always wins. So nobody buy from Dell, HP or any other horrible company.

so? a lot of people that know a lot about computers WOULD do it themselves or get someone that knows a lot about computers to build one for them. So I guess Mac IS a horrible company. The point is if you didn't want to spend 2500 dollars which most people don't you can make your own better computer for half the cost.

Oh and Also this is about MAC and WINDOWS and making your own computer would be WINDOWS, unless you make a hackintosh.

[Vice]

You're right though, it IS funny, because most people don't buy a 17", 3kg, quad-core laptop to carry around. You say you do, so I'm just curious.

To be hones it is none of your business where I use my computers. I have a notebook because I needed a notebook for portability. I have the flexibility of taking my MacBook Pro with me to other countries when I need to work overseas and I can use it on a plane although I rarely do, I usually just watch a movie during the flight :p but once landed I have my MacBook Pro that I can begin working on in the Airport or when I get to my destination. And sure if I really wanted to work on the plane I could but as I said I rarely do. Also it's nice to have a notebook that I can take everywhere that has desktop class performance and capabilities. If I'm in the office or just in my car I have all my data there and I use my iPhone to create a WiFi hotspot to share its unlimited 3G connection to my Mac so I have decent internet (2.5Mb/ps down) anywhere in my home country. Sure it's not as fast as the 100Mb connection I have at home or work but it's decent.

Since when do people buy Notebooks to just leave them on a desk? I mean I'd expect home users to at-least sit on the sofa or in the garden now and again with a notebook. I know I use mine in those scenarios and I didn't even buy it originally to be used that way.

[DavidM]

Here. I'll do the math:

1. Mac OSX is more stable and less prone to "hick ups" than Windows Maybe but I've had Window 7 on 3 computers and have had no "hick ups" at all

2. Mac OSX has no registry or DLL files Agreed, Microsoft needs to do away with the registry and dlls

3. Macs have less chances of catching a virus or malware than Windows Yes, but more often than not it's a problem between the keyboard and the chair

4. Mac software is beautifully designed and awesome Matter of opinion only, I think Windows 7 is beautiful. I also love the soft top on my Dell Studio and the non-fingerprint finish of the rest of it, and I like the Red color.

5. iMovie and iPhoto are super awesome. The Windows alternative sucks...really bad. Another opinion, but I've never used my computer for movie or photo editing.

6. Macs are built to last. Solid and they simply work and do what they are supposed to do everytime They use the same chips, and are built by foxconn... like many others. It also sounds like you believe no one has EVER had a problem with a Mac?

7. mac laptops batteries last an eternity compared to PC laptops They will probably out last the cheap batteries that are in my Dell, 2 years old and only last about 50% of what it used too. However my wife's HP battery is still as strong as it what it ever was. Go figure

I have a Mac. Bought it a year and a half ago. NEVER had any problems with it. No freezes, no hick ups, no nothing. It works. There is nothing that can beat a Mac when it comes to photo, video and music editing. Windows simply can't compete. The latest Windows Live Essentials software is a complete joke, especially Live Movie. I bought a Dell Studio 14z 2 years ago and the only problem I have is the weakening battery. My Dell was $699 and can run Firefox, Foobar2k, Thunderbird, and can play every game I toss at it, of course it can't run every game because it's a laptop. I've never needed a to edit photos, music or movies... guess it just as simple as the right tool for the job?

I use Ubuntu as well and even Ubuntu has better software to edit video than Microsoft does. Ubuntu may or may not have better movie editing software than Window, but I can install it side by side on my laptop with Wubi. I still prefer Slackware, but once again never needed to do any movie, video or music editing with it either.

I guess like I said it just comes down to the right tool for the job, why spend 3 times the money for a Mac Book when I don't need OSX or iMovie or any other "i" software?

Edit: It just looked better if I bolded my responses directly after yours....

[nub]

If you're buying a mac I don't think this will have any affect on your because its already obvious you don't care how much money you waste.

[Samurizer]

To be hones it is none of your business where I use my computers.

You're right, of course. It's just that most people I know do the sort of tasks you listed (video editing, software development, VMs) indoors if they're really serious about getting any work done, instead of outdoors while running around.

I have a notebook because I needed a notebook for portability. I have the flexibility of taking my MacBook Pro with me to other countries when I need to work overseas and I can use it on a plane although I rarely do, I usually just watch a movie during the flight :p but once landed I have my MacBook Pro that I can begin working on in the Airport or when I get to my destination. And sure if I really wanted to work on the plane I could but as I said I rarely do. Also it's nice to have a notebook that I can take everywhere that has desktop class performance and capabilities. If I'm in the office or just in my car I have all my data there and I use my iPhone to create a WiFi hotspot to share its unlimited 3G connection to my Mac so I have decent internet (2.5Mb/ps down) anywhere in my home country. Sure it's not as fast as the 100Mb connection I have at home or work but it's decent.

And those things are impossible with a PC because, what, they weigh 350 grams more?

Since when do people buy Notebooks to just leave them on a desk? I mean I'd expect home users to at-least sit on the sofa or in the garden now and again with a notebook. I know I use mine in those scenarios and I didn't even buy it originally to be used that way.

True, but in those scenarios being disappointed about the weight and battery life hardly makes sense, does it? The way you were saying it, it was like 350 grams extra and 5.6hrs battery life would seriously cripple what you were doing with your notebook.

[Vice]

And those things are impossible with a PC because, what, they weigh 350 grams more?

Who said those tasks are impossible on a PC? Sure wasn't me.

We should probably just end this now because it's obvious that regardless of what features I present you will dismiss them as worthless and not enough to make up the price difference. I've presented things such as weight, battery life, performance, quality. You don't care about this stuff apparently.

[Boz]

the aluminium unibody

Ah yeah..the unibody designed to make sure you can upgrade as little as possible in machine so you'll have to buy a new machine down the road instead of upgrading things, having additional batteries on longer trips without AC power and so on....

Yes.. definitely A PLUS :rolleyes:

[rajputwarrior]

Ah yeah..the unibody designed to make sure you can upgrade as little as possible in machine so you'll have to buy a new machine down the road instead of upgrading things, having additional batteries on longer trips without AC power and so on....

Yes.. definitely A PLUS :rolleyes:

:spam:

so other then the battery (and in some PC laptops those are not interchangeable either...) can you change more on a dell/hp/acer/asus laptop compared to a macbook?

your massive donkey sized troll hard-on for anything not mac shines again!

[Samurizer]

We should probably just end this now because it's obvious that regardless of what features I present you will dismiss them as worthless and not enough to make up the price difference. I've presented things such as weight, battery life, performance, quality. You don't care about this stuff apparently.

There's a difference between not caring and not wanting to pay a couple hundred dollars for a miniscule improvement and some glass, because the latter concept makes as much sense as quibbling over milliseconds on a browser benchmark. Performance wise, you could easily buy a different model and get superior specs to the MBP while still paying less. Weight, it's a 350 gram difference.

From what you say you don't even need 7 hours of battery life, yet you're so disappointed that the PC doesn't have it so you can't overpay for it. What gives?