Microsoft asks consumers to

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

It's not about insecurity it's just how humans like to prove their decision power is superior. People argue about anything. The leader of my political party is better than yours. My Football team can beat your football team. My car is faster than your car. And computers is no difference. Even kids do this about their bikes. I've even seen kids fight about which one of them is richer based on the brand names on the clothes they are wearing.

It's just .. competition. And in this thread if you look at just my replies you'd probably think I'm a Mac user right? And yet I have a Windows Server in my house that cost thousands of pounds which I built myself. And I also have a Desktop PC running Windows 7 which I also built. I even have two Dell (yes Dell not Apple) 30" monitors on my PC. Which is fully water cooled with the latest hardware money can buy.

The only reason I even posted in this thread is because although I own lots of Microsoft products and am invested in their ecosystem I can see how stupid this website Microsoft has setup is considering how they push everything towards price. If we compared everything based on price we'd be using pencils and matches instead of pens and lighters and the Kindle would never have existed because Books are cheaper. There is more to a computer than its price tag just like there is more to a computer than its CPU or a GPU you need to look at the package as a whole.

Some things this website lacks is what display panels are being used? Are they TN panels or IPS panels are they LCD or CCFL lighting? - And what about external ports. USB 2.0 / 3.0 do they have Firewire or Thunderbolt what about expandability? Can the RAM and HD be upgraded what about Slot cards, media card readers? It's stuff like this that the site looks over because it's only interested in the price. And I suppose for any consumers that will read that site and actually gain knowledge from it Microsoft has succeeded in channelling their thoughts on to the very finite list of features where they can compare a PC to a Mac.

Agreed

[Growled Member]

I would gladly buy a Mac but my pocketbook won't allow me. So I settle for running Linux on a Windows box.

[Charisma Veteran]

It's not about insecurity it's just how humans like to prove their decision power is superior. People argue about anything. The leader of my political party is better than yours. My Football team can beat your football team. My car is faster than your car. And computers is no difference. Even kids do this about their bikes. I've even seen kids fight about which one of them is richer based on the brand names on the clothes they are wearing.

It's just .. competition. And in this thread if you look at just my replies you'd probably think I'm a Mac user right? And yet I have a Windows Server in my house that cost thousands of pounds which I built myself. And I also have a Desktop PC running Windows 7 which I also built. I even have two Dell (yes Dell not Apple) 30" monitors on my PC. Which is fully water cooled with the latest hardware money can buy.

The only reason I even posted in this thread is because although I own lots of Microsoft products and am invested in their ecosystem I can see how stupid this website Microsoft has setup is considering how they push everything towards price. If we compared everything based on price we'd be using pencils and matches instead of pens and lighters and the Kindle would never have existed because Books are cheaper. There is more to a computer than its price tag just like there is more to a computer than its CPU or a GPU you need to look at the package as a whole.

Some things this website lacks is what display panels are being used? Are they TN panels or IPS panels are they LCD or CCFL lighting? - And what about external ports. USB 2.0 / 3.0 do they have Firewire or Thunderbolt what about expandability? Can the RAM and HD be upgraded what about Slot cards, media card readers? It's stuff like this that the site looks over because it's only interested in the price. And I suppose for any consumers that will read that site and actually gain knowledge from it Microsoft has succeeded in channelling their thoughts on to the very finite list of features where they can compare a PC to a Mac.

True.

...but my football team can beat your football team :whistle:

[Vice]

True.

...but my football team can beat your football team :whistle:

:laugh: They probably can as I don't have a football team :p

[Max Norris]

Way to beat a pointless topic to death guys. It's called competitive advertising. Apple's just as guilty as Microsoft for playing the "buy this because the other one sucks" game. If the advertisement isn't going to convince you, nit-picking a stupid point beyond absurdity isn't going to work either. Pick option #3 and move on.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

Way to beat a pointless topic to death guys. It's called competitive advertising. Apple's just as guilty as Microsoft for playing the "buy this because the other one sucks" game. If the advertisement isn't going to convince you, nit-picking a stupid point beyond absurdity isn't going to work either. Pick option #3 and move on.

Agreed in the begining the mac vs pc ads were cool, but then got worse and worse. To point of borderline scare tactics. To near the end i was going WTH with their selective choice of words and comparisons. Were they lying no, but they were verry verry carefull of the wording to make it where they were not lying

[Charisma Veteran]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: +1

[Samurizer]

The only reason I even posted in this thread is because although I own lots of Microsoft products and am invested in their ecosystem I can see how stupid this website Microsoft has setup is considering how they push everything towards price. If we compared everything based on price we'd be using pencils and matches instead of pens and lighters and the Kindle would never have existed because Books are cheaper.

Not everything. They're comparing systems that are more or less equivalent, specs-wise. If Microsoft was really trying to compare everything based on price they'd be comparing top-end MBPs to Atom and Brazos netbooks, but then that'd be as retarded as the examples you gave.

Some things this website lacks is what display panels are being used? Are they TN panels or IPS panels are they LCD or CCFL lighting? - And what about external ports. USB 2.0 / 3.0 do they have Firewire or Thunderbolt what about expandability? Can the RAM and HD be upgraded what about Slot cards, media card readers?

Are any of those worth paying around twice the price of a similarly-specced PC for? You tell me.

[Noveed]

Well, here we go then

Im in the UK mind

Bought my Macbook from PC World in 2008. 15 months later, my battery died, expecting to pay ?90 for a battery as it was out of warranty, walked up to a advisor and they gave me a new one for free there and then.

Second case, those chips that people seem to be getting on the *PLASTIC* models, took it in to Apple, 1.5 years out of warranty and they replaced the whole casing and the keyboard and mousepad for free.

Compare that to the 6 months it took to get a repair on a Dell machine, which when it kept BSOD'ing, insisted on doing "Remote Control" which only ended when Tesco just took it back because they were embarrased.

Erm Next day support with dell. They even sent an engineer out once to replace my Mobo for my XPS M1530. And yeah I am in the UK too. My experience with Alienware (pre-dell) was horrendous but after a little persuasion they replaced my m15x with a new M15x :D I was a happy chappy. My old one was out of warranty too.

The whole warranty debate is fruitless. Microsoft is a software company where as Apple is Hardware and Software, they make the OS to run on their bespoke products. Manufacturers will take care of any warranty so if they screw up its not really a Microsoft failing issue.

Although I like the look and feel of Macs they are simply out of my price range at this time. If I had the money I would probably buy one and install Windows on it :laugh:

The fact remains though the Windows has far more users than OSX this leaves it more prone to attacks, hacks and people exploiting it. If it was the other way around they you probably would see same thing happening to OSX.

[Matchmuchach]

A bought a MacBook Pro 13" last summer for college. Mainly because of the small formfactor, sturdy design and the machine weighs almost nothing. I've been an (partial) Apple user for the past four years or so, but I'm mostly running Windows 7 natively because of the software I need for my education. I've upgraded the machine to 8GB of ram, and replaced the optical drive with a second harddrive. In total the machine cost me 1350 euro or something in that order. I don't have Apple Care right now, but I'm planning on buying it to extend the warranty before it ends this summer. Bringen the total cost of this machina to about 1700 euros.

So the website suggests a Samsung or a Sony VAIO S Series. I dislike the Samsung, but the VAIO would actually have been a better choice for me, so the site is not useless :) The VAIO has all of the features that made me buy the MacBook, is cheaper and doesn't require me to buy extended warranty after one year. In total the VAIO would safe me 500/600 euros, and it comes included with Windows 7, safes me another 50 euros (student deals) for that one.

I'm verry happy with the MacBook, and I don't need/miss the money. But if I would drop the MacBook tomorrow I would probably buy the VAIO.

EDIT: Oh, and the VAIO has the option to add an extra battery to the machine, giving it 14 hours. My MacBook gives me 7 right now, which was also a big reason for buying it (since no other PC had that at the time). So yeah, the website really does help... I'd never checked the VAIO website when I bought my machine, so I didn't even know this machine existed back then.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

Not everything. They're comparing systems that are more or less equivalent, specs-wise. If Microsoft was really trying to compare everything based on price they'd be comparing top-end MBPs to Atom and Brazos netbooks, but then that'd be as retarded as the examples you gave.

Are any of those worth paying around twice the price of a similarly-specced PC for? You tell me.

The only people that will make a unbiosed advet ( and yes the subject of the thread is an advert ) is somebody that has no interest in the subject, advertising companies have biased towards whoever is paying that bill. And some webaites have vested interest in whoever is paying advertising ( kane & lynch review episode )

To some people yes they are worth paying more for. But thats the decision of the person, and it doesnt make them wrong if its diffrent then you. I like my Xbox, friends of mine like the PS3. I like Win7 above My MBP that i havent turned on in years. And when the HPPalmOS slate finally comes out, ill make a decision of if i prefre that or my iPad more.

People have diffrrent opinions, just cause you have one doesnt mean everybody has to agree with you

Crap nvm, forgot that cause i own at least 1 Apple device that im a fanboy. And for some weird reason hate MS.

[Vice]

Are any of those worth paying around twice the price of a similarly-specced PC for? You tell me.

A single one of those features? No. But if we are comparing all the features together then it's a different story.

Also I just want to point out something. The MacBook Pro 17" has better specs than the other two by far http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows7/products/compare/pc-vs-mac/do-the-math?macCode=006

The MacBook Pro 17" has an Intel quad-core i7 processor- 2.3 GHz while the closest competitor in price only has a Dual Core at 1.66 GHz and the other two only have AMD Phenoms also at 1.6 GHz. Whats with that?

[Charisma Veteran]

To some people yes they are worth paying more for. But thats the decision of the person, and it doesnt make them wrong if its diffrent then you. I like my Xbox, friends of mine like the PS3. I like Win7 above My MBP that i havent turned on in years. And when the HPPalmOS slate finally comes out, ill make a decision of if i prefre that or my iPad more.

People have diffrrent opinions, just cause you have one doesnt mean everybody has to agree with you

I don't have a problem with people who genuinely prefer the Mac experience. It's just annoying when some twit with more money than sense buys a car they can't drive properly, a computer they can't use properly, and all sorts of other "fancy" things just because they can, and then claim it's sooo much better than the cheaper, sometimes more practical alternatives.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

I don't have a problem with people who genuinely prefer the Mac experience. It's just annoying when some twit with more money than sense buys a car they can't drive properly, a computer they can't use properly, and all sorts of other "fancy" things just because they can, and then claim it's sooo much better than the cheaper, sometimes more practical alternatives.

Agreed

And i like the edit button

[Quillz]

And a million viruses, spyware, forced AV and a mediocre OS. All a professional could ask for.

There are no "forced" anti-virus product in Windows.

[crazzy88ss]

ok this is total BS.

27" iMac is compared to all-in-ones with 23" 1080 screens. 27" iMac has 2550x1440 screen. Find me one of those and then we'll do a comparison.

[DeadEndAccount]

I only wish Apple would release a less powerful Mac Pro targeted at PC users like myself who prefer custom build machines that are powerful and not overpriced. A price of $1500-$2500 (without a monitor) would be really reasonable. This way I would never get stuck between the crappy Mac Mini, the iMac which is a desktop with weaker laptop parts (and a forced expensive monitor) and finally the expensive Mac Pro beast.

The strange part is that back in the PowerPC days (pre-G5) they used to offer a entry level uni-processor box that was more expensive than the average PC but it was only slight more expensive than an iMac - I know several instances where such an option got die-hard Windows users through the door but with that being said there are greater issues that need addressing. Even if Apple provided a low end uni-processor model they need to make their OS flexible enough so that one can upgrade video cards without having to go through the whole rigamarole of installing drivers, shutting down, installing then rebooting (made worse if you need to do a clean install which requires one to put in the old card, install Mac OS X then install the new drivers, shut down the install the new video card). So even if they were to make things easier on one side they still have to address a whole host of issues on the other side of the equation.

On a good side though the nVidia Quadro Mac edition video cards aren't being priced higher than the PC ones which is great when it comes to after market upgrades.

Obvious troll is obvious.

1) A troll is a person who posts something that is deliberately provocative to get a response out people - the fact that you disagree with what I said doesn't make me a troll, we just simply disagree on the matter.

2) You failed to actually make a point by point critique of what I posted - I think that alone speaks volumes for the type of person you are when it comes to pointing the finger and accusing another person of being a troll.

EDIT: Oh, and the VAIO has the option to add an extra battery to the machine, giving it 14 hours. My MacBook gives me 7 right now, which was also a big reason for buying it (since no other PC had that at the time). So yeah, the website really does help... I'd never checked the VAIO website when I bought my machine, so I didn't even know this machine existed back then.

There used to be an option for an external battery not too long ago but the company has since stopped selling them - apparently because of pressure put on them by Apple. Personally I won't buy anything from Sony after the way they've behaved.

I don't have a problem with people who genuinely prefer the Mac experience. It's just annoying when some twit with more money than sense buys a car they can't drive properly, a computer they can't use properly, and all sorts of other "fancy" things just because they can, and then claim it's sooo much better than the cheaper, sometimes more practical alternatives.

You see that regardless of whether they're a Mac user or a PC user - I'm seen people spend thousands on a Alienware laptop which is as ugly as sin that performs only marginally better than the top of the line Dell XPS 15inch model (which is around 2/3 the price) . I've seen it with Mac users trumpeting about features they read off the back of their computer or off the back of the Mac OS X box. Stupidity exists everywhere unfortunately.

Ok this is total BS.

27" iMac is compared to all-in-ones with 23" 1080 screens. 27" iMac has 2550x1440 screen. Find me one of those and then we'll do a comparison.

Notice that they also don't mention what video cards these all in ones have - I suggest everyone here check out each of the PC alternatives in regards to what they use in terms of GPU.

As for touch screens - colour me old fashioned by I've yet to hear a person say to me, "you know, I'd really like to get a touch screen iMac but too bad Apple don't sell one". There is a reason why touch screen computers beyond tablets and handheld devices is stupid - it was addressed in the 'Back to the Mac' event and has been covered in great depth by numerous usability experts who label the problem 'gorilla arm syndrome' ( link ).

[tsupersonic]

They're right do the math, Apple is a more expensive computer experience.

[DeadEndAccount]

They're right do the math, Apple is a more expensive computer experience.

Expensive based on what?

If you ran Windows on the server when compared to Mac OS X then it makes sense. If you're using Windows in an enterprise environment then it makes sense.

But in other instances people might prefer Mac's such as small businesses, families, graphic arts etc. It is about using the right tool for the job.

Apple has openly stated that "for Apple to win Microsoft doesn't have to lose".

When is Microsoft going to grow some maturity and accept that they don't need to dominate the world in every possible area imaginable?

[Samurizer]

A single one of those features? No. But if we are comparing all the features together then it's a different story.

Not really. If the PCs were cheap, shoddy models then you might have an argument. The models the MBP 17" were compared to in particular are high-quality luxury models that at best only fall slightly behind in workmanship.

I agree it's all subjective, but at some point or other reason has to kick in. When there's such a significant price gap for a miniscule difference in quality, the justifications all simply become emotional ones, which is what Microsoft is trying to appeal against by presenting facts and figures.

Also I just want to point out something. The MacBook Pro 17" has better specs than the other two by far http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows7/products/compare/pc-vs-mac/do-the-math?macCode=006

The MacBook Pro 17" has an Intel quad-core i7 processor- 2.3 GHz while the closest competitor in price only has a Dual Core at 1.66 GHz and the other two only have AMD Phenoms also at 1.6 GHz. Whats with that?

That's most likely an error. The i7-740QM is a quad-core processor (where Q is for quad and M is for mobile, feel free to google the model and look it up). In fact, all i7 processors are quad-cores, there's no dual-core i7 to be found AFAIK.

$1.8k for the HP Envy still sounds a bit steep for me. Where I'm from, I'd probably get it for $1.5k-ish.

[tsupersonic]

Expensive based on what?

If you ran Windows on the server when compared to Mac OS X then it makes sense. If you're using Windows in an enterprise environment then it makes sense.

But in other instances people might prefer Mac's such as small businesses, families, graphic arts etc. It is about using the right tool for the job.

Apple has openly stated that "for Apple to win Microsoft doesn't have to lose".

When is Microsoft going to grow some maturity and accept that they don't need to dominate the world in every possible area imaginable?

Overall expense...Bottom line is if I want a computer to buy now and don't have much money, what do you think I'm going to buy - a Mac or a Windows PC? There are hundreds of comparisons online proving you can build similar or better spec PC's for cheaper than what a comparing Mac would cost. You have to remember one of them is a hardware company and the other is a software company.

Relax, competition is good. It makes both companies strive for excellency and the consumers benefit. Also, remember I'm a Mac, and I'm a PC ads? ;)

[DeadEndAccount]

Overall expense...Bottom line is if I want a computer to buy now and don't have much money, what do you think I'm going to buy - a Mac or a Windows PC? There are hundreds of comparisons online proving you can build similar or better spec PC's for cheaper than what a comparing Mac would cost. You have to remember one of them is a hardware company and the other is a software company.

Relax, competition is good. It makes both companies strive for excellency and the consumers benefit.

I am relaxed; I am annoyed though with people who try to make the claim that one is empirically better than the other whilst ignoring the context in which the device is going to be used. Use what works for you and move on with life.

Also, remember I'm a Mac, and I'm a PC ads? ;)

Yes I do and you raising the issue is meaningless given that I though the ads were as stupid as the stoned girl complaining that her PC ate her homework.

[tsupersonic]

I am relaxed; I am annoyed though with people who try to make the claim that one is empirically better than the other whilst ignoring the context in which the device is going to be used. Use what works for you and move on with life.

Yes I do and you raising the issue is meaningless given that I though the ads were as stupid as the stoned girl complaining that her PC ate her homework.

Exactly move on with life and enjoy it, because there's no point in arguing over such a stupid thing as OS/hardware.

I'm just trying to show Apple can also be immature. Thank God those ads have stopped, they were so annoying, always on TV everywhere.

[xWhiplash]

Lets not forget the software that you get with a Mac vs a PC.

iLife alone, for me at least, makes up for the differences. GarageBand blows anything available for Windows out of the water in terms of ease of use. Yes I did try the big audio programs in Windows: FL Studio and the one sony makes to list a couple. They all sucked compared to GarageBand. I opened up GB and knew exactly how to use it after about an hour. I spent a week messing with FL Studio and I could not stand the UI. So yes, iLife is added to the price of the mac, so you are not just getting Hardware + OS. Add iLife in there as well.

Future OS X? One thing I cannot stand about MS and Windows is that there are so many versions and a hefty price for it. Granted 7 has less versions than Vista, but I believe there should only be two (three including Enterprise). XP only had two in the beginning until Media Center edition. Why did vista have so many? Also, why do I see $255-$300 netbooks come with Windows 7 Starter? It might be different now, but come on. Apple only has one version of OS X, two if you count Server and is always around $129 for the full license (apple box which includes iLife and iWork).

On to Office. I love...LOVE Office 2010. 2007 was a joke compared to 2010, it just feels perfect. But there is still a problem I have with it. Again, why so many versions? Also, if you want to use it for business use, you have to spend $280+ for office?! Apple has a version known as iWork. Now compared to Office, it is not as good. However, there is one version at $80.

When you compare Mac vs PC, you have to look at everything. See what it includes, is it worth it to you? You are not just getting the hardware and the OS, you are also getting one of the easiest and best productivity suites available: iLife. Not to mention you will have access to even better applications like Final Cut Express/Studio and Logic Express/Studio.

Not to mention if you like your applications to be nice and clean, pretty much 70% of the OS X applications are perfectly usable and look very nice. The two best looking apps I have installed are Transmit for FTP transfers, and Versions for an SVN client.

[Vice]

That's most likely an error. The i7-740QM is a quad-core processor (where Q is for quad and M is for mobile, feel free to google the model and look it up). In fact, all i7 processors are quad-cores, there's no dual-core i7 to be found AFAIK.

$1.8k for the HP Envy still sounds a bit steep for me. Where I'm from, I'd probably get it for $1.5k-ish.

This comparison site is even more ridiculous than I first thought considering they cant even get a CPU listed correctly. Dual vs Quad core could be a deal breaker for consumers seriously looking at this site to find a notebook.

Disappointing really. Also even though it is a Quad it's an old one and only 1.73GHz. Even lacks battery life compared to the MacBook Pro by over an hour and almost a pound heavier. Quite a lot of concessions for only $500 cheaper in my opinion. I'd for a start want the fastest processor since its not upgradable while Memory and Hard Disk are.