WZOR Talks About Windows (Codename) 9, Is a DP Imminent?

[Gabe84]

You sound like a 5 year old.

Also it seems like you haven't used a current version of Windows. Win 8.1 is great

Couldn't care less what I may sound to you actually, is it forbidden to say that I find that design ugly?

 

I've used 8/8.1 multiple times, on computers I fix, it works great, that's true, I still find it ugly though, ugly to the point that I prefer to miss on new features (also because I don't feel I need them) rather than upgrading to it.

 

My issue is not with performance or stability, is design, that's why I hope Microsoft will give users plenty of opportunities to customize the look and feel of their OS.

 

I find metro or modern or whatever ugly, I just want the chance to get rid of it from my system, I'm only asking for what Microsoft has always given to its customers: the possibility to make your system real personal via customization.

[Defcon]

I want the customization options that were present in Win 7 but taken out in Win 8 to return - full customization of Window chrome, colors, fonts and schemes.

 

And virtual desktops (like many other features) have always been in the Win32 API, they were just never exposed to users.

Couldn't care less what I may sound to you actually, is it forbidden to say that I find that design ugly?

 

I've used 8/8.1 multiple times, on computers I fix, it works great, that's true, I still find it ugly though, ugly to the point that I prefer to miss on new features (also because I don't feel I need them) rather than upgrading to it.

 

My issue is not with performance or stability, is design, that's why I hope Microsoft will give users plenty of opportunities to customize the look and feel of their OS.

 

I find metro or modern or whatever ugly, I just want the chance to get rid of it from my system, I'm only asking for what Microsoft has always given to its customers: the possibility to make your system real personal via customization.

 

I agree that we need more customization options. But Metro as a design language is a huge success. Its been copied by nearly everyone - Apple (iOS and OSX), Android (ICS onwards), multiple other programs and websites. Flat shaded UI elements and getting rid of fancy borders, 3d effects etc is the way many designers are adopting, I don't think you can escape that.

[Gabe84]

I want the customization options that were present in Win 7 but taken out in Win 8 to return - full customization of Window chrome, colors, fonts and schemes.

 

And virtual desktops (like many other features) have always been in the Win32 API, they were just never exposed to users.

 

I agree that we need more customization options. But Metro as a design language is a huge success. Its been copied by nearly everyone - Apple (iOS and OSX), Android (ICS onwards), multiple other programs and websites. Flat shaded UI elements and getting rid of fancy borders, 3d effects etc is the way many designers are adopting, I don't think you can escape that.

Yup, I'm realizing I'm not a fan of flat design, for instance I really like Mavericks but I don't like Yosemite, I don't like iOS 7 either. To me older Apple designs looked refined, sophisticated, icons in Yosemite, iOS 7 and 8, Windows Metro look "simple", to me they almost look like something you can find in children books :/ For some reason I like Linux Mint Cinnamon :huh:

 

You're right, kinda sucks to be me nowadays :laugh:

[Defcon]

Yup, I'm realizing I'm not a fan of flat design, for instance I really like Mavericks but I don't like Yosemite, I don't like iOS 7 either. To me older Apple designs looked refined, sophisticated, icons in Yosemite, iOS 7 and 8, Windows Metro look "simple", to me they almost look like something you can find in children books :/ For some reason I like Linux Mint Cinnamon :huh:

 

You're right, kinda sucks to be me nowadays :laugh:

You're not alone. There was ahuge outcry over iOS7, everyone called it ugly (because it is), same for Yosemite, same for Metro. But I think it can be done tastefull, e.g. Android looks quite nice, so does Windows Phone. Not sure if it translates all that well to pc screens.

 

I honestly don't like Windows 7 borders and Aero after using 8, but 8 is a little too sparse. They need to have some visual cues about depth, texture etc.

[winlonghorn]

Ugh. Did they really have to bring back folder hierarchies in Start?

 

They can't cater to everybody's individual wishes! lol :s If they make a change to Windows, someone complains, they change it back, someone complains that they liked the other way, and they change it back again then Windows won't last another 2 years! It is impossible to please everybody! 

[chrisj1968]

They can't cater to everybody's individual wishes! lol :s If they make a change to Windows, someone complains, they change it back, someone complains that they liked the other way, and they change it back again then Windows won't last another 2 years! It is impossible to please everybody! 

 

don't worry about individual comments or complaints but on a broader scale, if 30-40 comments reflect the same analysis, then that would be a plausible thing to work on.

[George P Global Moderator]

Is it assumed the search pin just triggers the current search sidebar?

 

Maybe?  I personally don't have issue with it but maybe they changed that or plan to as well.  We haven't seen what happens when that's clicked only the one next to it for virtual desktops.

[Stoffel]

I want to see what the start menu looks like when it goes full screen

Will we still have then list with apps on the left or will that disappear?

 

Brad, have you seen that in action, minimizing and maximizing the start menu?

[Gabe84]

I just would like to eleborate on my "crusade" against Metro.

 

Personal tastes are not up for debate obviously, I can go on and rant all day about how I find a certain design ugly and I still won't win any supporters; however, my "personal war" on Metro is based on the assumption that I believe people just don't care about those apps.

 

My reasoning is based on current adoption of 8/8.1, which is, as you know, very low, and personal experience with people using 8/8.1, none of them, both home and business users, ever use apps, nor feel the need to.

 

Think about any metro app from a desktop user standpoint and you'll see that you can perform those same tasks more efficiently from your browser.

 

On your desktop do you use the news app or just visit a website, or maybe get your news from your social media feed? How about weather? Or maps? Do you use apps or you just google " (city) weather" or just google the address and then rely on Google Maps?

 

The same goes for the apps from websites, on your desktop do you run the app or just visit their website?

 

People are used to access and consume content in a certain way, via a browser, you can get streaming, news, games, maps, etc, from your browser, you just don't need to use several different apps which serve only one purpose.

 

Business users will just keep using full blown desktop programs, programs not apps, they probably have their calendars on their smartphones synced with their calendars in Outlook, or more commonly they'll just use the calendar on their smartphones.

 

How often do desktop users find themselves using apps instead of a real software? Do you use, for instance, Skype desktop or app? Browser desktop or app? Office desktop or app? Do you use PC Settings or Control Panel? Charms Bar on the desktop?

 

I think apps have no place in a desktop environment, people will keep ignoring them, or look at them as a redundant nuisance, and I think customers sent a pretty clear message to Microsoft regarding the mix of "traditional" desktop software and apps, and, personally, I don't like that Microsoft is, apparelently, still trying to push Metro apps to desktop users, I actually find it irritating on their part to keep shoving down people's throats something they don't want, they tried and failed, just give up.

 

Just separate mobile touch-optimized devices from desktop keyboard and mouse devices, they're two different environments, with two different usages and two different needs, that's why I believe they need two different OS and different software.

 

I'm not saying Windows 9 will fail too because of Metro, but I fear that if they keep mixing Metro and Traditional at all costs Windows 9 will still have a hard time selling and convincing users, especially corporate users, to move away from more traditional environments.

 

Just my two cents, at the end of the day I'm not running a Fortune 500 company so Satya Nadella surely knows better than me.

[simplythomas]

@computerbase screenshot:

 

did you notice the "add remove windows features"-screen / screen number 15?

 

there is the "legacy language support" checkbox.

 

This is an amazing tidbit regarding compatibility.

MFC-MBCS-projects won't run without this checkbox.

Read this:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2013/07/08/mfc-support-for-mbcs-deprecated-in-visual-studio-2013.aspx

"MFC support for MBCS deprecated in Visual Studio 2013"

 

Hell this is fast.  :(  

 

Faster than i expected.

[Dot Matrix]

I just would like to eleborate on my "crusade" against Metro.

 

Personal tastes are not up for debate obviously, I can go on and rant all day about how I find a certain design ugly and I still won't win any supporters; however, my "personal war" on Metro is based on the assumption that I believe people just don't care about those apps.

 

My reasoning is based on current adoption of 8/8.1, which is, as you know, very low, and personal experience with people using 8/8.1, none of them, both home and business users, ever use apps, nor feel the need to.

 

Think about any metro app from a desktop user standpoint and you'll see that you can perform those same tasks more efficiently from your browser.

 

On your desktop do you use the news app or just visit a website, or maybe get your news from your social media feed? How about weather? Or maps? Do you use apps or you just google " (city) weather" or just google the address and then rely on Google Maps?

 

The same goes for the apps from websites, on your desktop do you run the app or just visit their website?

 

People are used to access and consume content in a certain way, via a browser, you can get streaming, news, games, maps, etc, from your browser, you just don't need to use several different apps which serve only one purpose.

 

Business users will just keep using full blown desktop programs, programs not apps, they probably have their calendars on their smartphones synced with their calendars in Outlook, or more commonly they'll just use the calendar on their smartphones.

 

How often do desktop users find themselves using apps instead of a real software? Do you use, for instance, Skype desktop or app? Browser desktop or app? Office desktop or app? Do you use PC Settings or Control Panel? Charms Bar on the desktop?

 

I think apps have no place in a desktop environment, people will keep ignoring them, or look at them as a redundant nuisance, and I think customers sent a pretty clear message to Microsoft regarding the mix of "traditional" desktop software and apps, and, personally, I don't like that Microsoft is, apparelently, still trying to push Metro apps to desktop users, I actually find it irritating on their part to keep shoving down people's throats something they don't want, they tried and failed, just give up.

 

Just separate mobile touch-optimized devices from desktop keyboard and mouse devices, they're two different environments, with two different usages and two different needs, that's why I believe they need two different OS and different software.

 

I'm not saying Windows 9 will fail too because of Metro, but I fear that if they keep mixing Metro and Traditional at all costs Windows 9 will still have a hard time selling and convincing users, especially corporate users, to move away from more traditional environments.

 

Just my two cents, at the end of the day I'm not running a Fortune 500 company so Satya Nadella surely knows better than me.

 

First, apps are real software. There's no limitations on what they can become. Second, apps also = programs. I use many applications on my desktop, and those include Metro and legacy desktop applications.

 

Third, there is no reason Metro cannot exist on the desktop. It's a better proponent for a new era in computing than the largely legacy desktop is, and can better scale to accommodate a wide range of personal devices, than the legacy desktop can. The Metro UI, and Metro applications are in a better position to carry Windows forward, than the 90's era legacy still remaining in the OS.

[Ian S.]

It does for what I need

 

I know apps can be uninstalled on 8/8.1, I hope they will keep this possibility, I just simply don't want to see apps anywhere near me, I personally think they look ugly and childish, I wouldn't even want to see a list of that stuff, I would try to achieve a Windows 7 look and erase any reminder of their "modern" stuff that I personally don't care about.

 

I just want a proper working edition of Windows, without anything "metro", if Microsoft will give users the possibility to clean the OS uninstalling apps fine, unless I'll look somewhere else for my PC.

What you "don't care about" is probably something you haven't used for more than a week. You haven't got done into the nitty-gritty powerful part of the Modern UI. You'll understand how useful the new task manager, charms bar, and PC settings App are. You probably did not need to project things from the get-go, so you haven't used the new Winkey+P menu, you probably did not install it on more than one PC or update to 8.1 August Update, in which case you would see how powerful Settings Sync and Onedrive are. You've also probably never given the new Mail app a try, and let me tell you the organization is simple, yet intuitive. OneNote is another thing that is great about the Modern UI. Taking notes for school on a Surface or laptop type devices, as I have seen students and teachers do, really helps them keep organized.

[Ian S.]

To those arguing that apps are not software, yes they are.

 

Apps are Mac OSX Applications, Windows Apps, Windows Desktop (Legacy) apps/Programs, Android Apps, Play Store Apps, Nokia Android Apps, Amazon Apps, iOS Apps, iPhone Apps, Android Tablet Apps, iPad apps are all called "Apps" and they are all software. Windows (Modern UI) apps tend to have more functionality than other MOBILE apps, and tend to look better than Desktop Apps or OSX APPlications.

[Ian S.]

 

 

...and personal experience with people using 8/8.1, none of them, both home and business users, ever use apps...

The thousands that use Windows Apps everyday would disagree with you. Yes adoption is slow, yes it is a new concept that users are still trying to understand and maybe in the future implement into their daily lives. To day that Apps aren't the future is like saying Windows 7 is not better than XP, which obviously you seem to also disagree with.

[Dot Matrix]

For those that still want the Start Screen over the Start Menu:

 

[(Account no longer active)]

Windows 9 will be DOA.

 

People don't like extreme change. Microsoft have not learned from their mistakes with Windows 8. I'm very disappointed. I've used Windows since version 3, however it looks like that will change soon.

[Max Norris]

Windows 9 will be DOA.

People don't like extreme change. Microsoft have not learned from their mistakes with Windows 8. I'm very disappointed. I've been using Windows since version 3.1.

That's kinda why they're giving you the option to set it up exactly like the "classic" versions of Windows.. no extreme changes. Since you mentioned it, the change from 3.1 to NT/95 was much bigger/extreme, and yet the world seems to shockingly still prefer Windows over anything else.

Personally rather happy with where it's going, regardless of if you like the classic or the modern styles. (Visual style could still use some sprucing up but.. *shrug* I change that on every OS regardless.)

[Dot Matrix]

Windows 9 will be DOA.

 

People don't like extreme change. Microsoft have not learned from their mistakes with Windows 8.

Sorry, but that's BS. Change is part of the game. You can't keep complaining about it.

[Stoffel]

Windows 9 will be DOA.

 

People don't like extreme change. Microsoft have not learned from their mistakes with Windows 8. I'm very disappointed. I've used Windows since version 3, however it looks like that will change soon.

 

How is this extreme change compared to Windows 7, because everybody skipped Windows 8 right?

The start menu is evolved, just like it did from 95 to 98 to ..... 7

And there is a new type of applications you can run, or just ignore if you don't want them.

Other then that, everybody is making you log in with some sort of account that aggregates lots of things for you and connects to the cloud

That's what makes re-installing your pc these days a breeze.

 

If you don't want any of this, you can just turn it all off.

But MS has always enabled new features standard, with the option to turn them off again if you like

 

With an attitude like that it just makes sense for you to just stick with what you got

[Quillz]

Windows 9 will be DOA.

 

People don't like extreme change. Microsoft have not learned from their mistakes with Windows 8. I'm very disappointed. I've used Windows since version 3, however it looks like that will change soon.

And there wasn't extreme change from 3.x -> 9x?

 

Program Manager was replaced. File Manager was replaced. The taskbar was added. Much of the UI chrome was changed. For someone who has been using Windows as long as you claim, you seem to think this is the first time Windows has ever had a major change.

[Dashel]

Maybe?  I personally don't have issue with it but maybe they changed that or plan to as well.  We haven't seen what happens when that's clicked only the one next to it for virtual desktops.

I'm assuming since search is back in Start that the pin is going to be universal search.  Frankly sad about the icon as I was hoping for a circle. ;)

 

I'm betting the quick admin menu stays, but I honestly don't get why they implemented Start that way.  That's not modern at all, its a bastard of two extremes mashed together.  Not happy so far with what looks to be a tragically redundant widget launcher.  Let them be different, but connect them in more meaningful ways.  Separate but equal-ish!

 

To those arguing that apps are not software, yes they are.

 

No one is arguing that, you are just belaboring the point that Applications > Apps > Widgets.

 

The thousands that use Windows Apps everyday would disagree with you. Yes adoption is slow, yes it is a new concept that users are still trying to understand and maybe in the future implement into their daily lives. To day that Apps aren't the future is like saying Windows 7 is not better than XP, which obviously you seem to also disagree with.

 

And yet it is such an old concept that the iPhone triggered an ah ha moment for a generation as soon as they could wipe their greasy fingers on them from the couch.

[Ian S.]

After you change your Start style:

 

Notice also that "Show Windows Store apps on the taskbar" is gone:

 

[Dot Matrix]

Notice also that "Show Windows Store apps on the taskbar" is gone:

 

So are the options for multiple displays. :(

[Ian S.]

So are the options for multiple displays. :(

Do you mean this?

 

 

 

It is not on my Surface either, I think that it adapts to if you have an external display connected or not. He probably didn't.

[Stoffel]

After you change your Start style:

 

 

Notice also that "Show Windows Store apps on the taskbar" is gone:

 

 

Maybe that option comes back when you select the option to use the start screen