WZOR Talks About Windows (Codename) 9, Is a DP Imminent?

[(Account no longer active)]

And there wasn't extreme change from 3.x -> 9x?

 

Program Manager was replaced. File Manager was replaced. The taskbar was added. Much of the UI chrome was changed. For someone who has been using Windows as long as you claim, you seem to think this is the first time Windows has ever had a major change.

Okay, 'extreme change' was the wrong term to use.

 

I'd be very interested to hear Bill Gate's opinions on this.

[Ian W]

I cannot overstate my preference for this option. The level of categorization offered by the Start screen for applications - name, date installed, frequency of use, and category - is unparalleled in a Windows release, and I do not see how it would be possible with the Start menu.

[George P Global Moderator]

People are hinting, those who are supposedly in the know, that there's way more UI changes in the works that are not in these builds and will probably not be in the first technical preview we see later this month.   Also if you see some options missing in this build it could just be because of this build and the nature of it, taking away options to get people to try the new stuff instead and then get feedback on it, etc.

[Mugwump00]

After you change your Start style:

 

Notice also that "Show Windows Store apps on the taskbar" is gone:

 

Oh this isn't good.  I was hoping the UI would adapt as the usage of a hybrid device (i.e. Surface) changes from keyboard/mouse(pad) attached mode to full tablet mode, i.e. all 'Modern' components defaulting back to full-screen when it is in-hand. 

 

OTOH Jumplists on the Start Menu - Yay!!

 

Some of the commenting on the thread makes me want to cry.  Oh, YOU don't get Metro/Modern/Touch-computing/Mobile-apps/App-OS-convergence/hybrid personal computing devices - still - you've never encountered the joys of a hybrid Surface-like device - still - so yeah, dammit Microsoft stop RAMMING PROGRESS down our throats!!! /s

[Ian S.]

Oh this isn't good.  I was hoping the UI would adapt as the usage of a hybrid device (i.e. Surface) changes from keyboard/mouse(pad) attached mode to full tablet mode, i.e. all 'Modern' components defaulting back to full-screen when it is in-hand. 

 

It probably will, what we are talking about is that you have the option to switch between Start & Mini Start.

[George P Global Moderator]

Changing from the menu to the start screen and back might not need a sign out in later builds, could just be the way they have it implemented right now.  OR, when you switch back to the start screen it could change a few things, not just the menu/screen UI but other settings that needs the sign-out/sign-in process to happen to take effect?

 

We'll have to wait and see how they do it going forward, best way would be for you to change it on the fly without having to sign in again so that it could be more dynamic, specially on hybrid devices. 

[Mugwump00]

It probably will, what we are talking about is that you have the option to switch between Start & Mini Start.

 

Which is fine, if you want to overrule it, but I don't see that as the optimal for the hybrid 'experience'.  A Start Menu might be great with a mouse, but will suck when your Surface (etc.) is popped from its dock.  This current implementation seems to necessitate Explorer.exe launching in one mode or the other.  Really hope this is just WiP.

[Gabe84]

First, apps are real software. There's no limitations on what they can become. Second, apps also = programs. I use many applications on my desktop, and those include Metro and legacy desktop applications.

 

Third, there is no reason Metro cannot exist on the desktop. It's a better proponent for a new era in computing than the largely legacy desktop is, and can better scale to accommodate a wide range of personal devices, than the legacy desktop can. The Metro UI, and Metro applications are in a better position to carry Windows forward, than the 90's era legacy still remaining in the OS.

Yet, what Microsoft is facing is lack of support from their clients. Why? If it is so good why do people hate it? People hate change? Yes, usually we as humans do not like change, but smartphones and tablets were a change too and people adopted them, but a corporation cannot simply say "hey, those dumbasses do not understand our view, f*** 'em", you may have to take into account that the kind of change you're delivering is not what people were expecting.

 

What you "don't care about" is probably something you haven't used for more than a week. You haven't got done into the nitty-gritty powerful part of the Modern UI. You'll understand how useful the new task manager, charms bar, and PC settings App are. You probably did not need to project things from the get-go, so you haven't used the new Winkey+P menu, you probably did not install it on more than one PC or update to 8.1 August Update, in which case you would see how powerful Settings Sync and Onedrive are. You've also probably never given the new Mail app a try, and let me tell you the organization is simple, yet intuitive. OneNote is another thing that is great about the Modern UI. Taking notes for school on a Surface or laptop type devices, as I have seen students and teachers do, really helps them keep organized.

I'll ask you the same question: then why people seem to hate anything Metro?

 

I'm not saying that Metro should be wiped out of existence, I believe it has its place, on Touch devices.

 

The thousands that use Windows Apps everyday would disagree with you. Yes adoption is slow, yes it is a new concept that users are still trying to understand and maybe in the future implement into their daily lives. To day that Apps aren't the future is like saying Windows 7 is not better than XP, which obviously you seem to also disagree with.

What about the millions who absolutely refuse to upgrade? Considering Microsoft's market share I'd say that adoption is almost non-existent.

 

Future, progress, are all great things, but as a business you have to make sure that your product, your vision, is what people want and need, unless you end up having people clinging to older OS or migrating to other platforms.

 

I mean, I couldn't care less about this, I'm not a Microsoft shareholder and I could do what I do on other platforms too, but I like Windows and would like to see Microsoft not forcing Metro at all costs, just give me, as a user, the opportunity to completely erase Metro from my PC, what should they care wether I use an app or my browser, or a webmail interface instead of the app, etc, as long as I buy their product? I already use all their products and services, why can't they let me use them the way I want? Do some of you think that people like me prefer to live in the past? But again, why should you care? I'm used to my way of working and find it more efficient than learning a new one; a lot of people share my view, does Microsoft still want our money? Then let me/us/them just keep doing our stuff the way we want to, call it freedom of choice if you will. All I'd like to see is freedom of customization, that's all.

 

PS: No, I think Windows 7 si far superior to XP, I'm just a tightwad :laugh:

[Dot Matrix]

Do you mean this?

 

 

 

It is not on my Surface either, I think that it adapts to if you have an external display connected or not. He probably didn't.

Yup. Interesting.

[Gabe84]

What about the Notifications Center?

 

I'd love to see it mirroring the one in Yosemite, you know with notifications from social media, messaging, and then pin the apps there, so you could add your calendar, which should be able to sync with your smartphone over the cloud, a calendar that communicates with Maps and Weather so if you have "meet with Tom, in XYZ squadre in NY" the app will recognize that "XYZ squadre in NY" is a location and will let you, almost automatically, fire up the maps app and somehow pin the map to your calendar, while also displaying weather forecasts for that particular area and day, weather, news (but not as a live tile more like it displaying a column of headlines), etc, basically the ability to move apps away from the start menu and pin them to the notifications center.

 

That way the Windows 9 Notifications Center will be more powerful than the one in Yosemite, I'd love that.

[Ambroos]

The borderless windows look horrible :/ But at least the drop shadow is nice.

[George P Global Moderator]

First the borders are too big and now they're too small/ugly.  Just can't make everyone happy.

[PGHammer]

Windows 9 will be DOA.

 

People don't like extreme change. Microsoft have not learned from their mistakes with Windows 8. I'm very disappointed. I've used Windows since version 3, however it looks like that will change soon.

Extreme change?  If folks accept change at all, it is change so slow as to be glacial - look at the hammering Yosemite has taken (simply due to changes from Mavericks) and iOS 8 (in terms of changes from iOS 7), and most of the changes in both are not that obvious.

 

Never mind that the changes in terms of hardware are massive - look at the iPhone 6 and 6+ alone compared to the iPhone 5S/5c - leaving size completely out.

 

I have a rather nasty suspicion that the vast majority - even of Apple's base - would have been happier with a Mavericks and iOS update package (as opposed to Yosemite and iOS 8) no matter HOW backward-compatible both are.  Hardware changes are a LOT easier to accept than OS changes, even if the OS must change to be able to put the hardware changes to use.

 

It's not extreme change that most folks detest - folks see ANY change, even necessary ones, as "extreme" if they have no plans on changing their hardware - and, to be honest, most users would ONLY change hardware - even phone hardware , when their existing hardware broke.  The rapid obsolescence in terms of smartphones and tablets is showing signs of resistance - and this is especially true of Android.  (Still, It's been showing in terms of Apple hardware, as well.)  Windows 8+ - including Threshold - is backward-compatible - in terms of hardware - in a way that OS X has largely eschewed; how much merely in terms of hardware since Snow Leopard has been thrown under the bus just up to Mavericks?  The telling fact is that I lost less in terms of applications going from 7 to 8.1 update 1 than going merely from Lion to Mavericks - let alone losses going from Lion to the current DP of Yosemite.  I'm not saying that there wasn't change between Windows 7 and even Windows 8.1 - that would be a rather large lie.  However, the change is mostly aesthetic - applications - and especially desktop applications - could, in fact, care less.  (Except for those third-party applications that got replaced by included features, I brought every desktop application that I was using in Windows 7 with me to the present.  That wasn't something I could say in the case of merely moving from Lion to Mavericks - let alone to Yosemite.)

 

It's not JUST Windows; change in terms of operating systems, applications, games, etc., is less and less acceptable these days.  Instead, the mantra has become "Don't change - no change is acceptable."

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Second video: http://winfuture.de/videos/Software/Windows-9-Startmenue-geht-auch-ganz-ohne-Live-Tiles-12912.html

 

You can use the new start menu without any tiles as well.

[George P Global Moderator]

You could use the start screen without any tiles as well either, from what I remember.  Not only can you just unpin everything from it you can make it open to the all apps list instead.   There was never any doubt that you could pick what you wanted pinned to the side of it or not.

[(Account no longer active)]

Extreme change?  If folks accept change at all, it is change so slow as to be glacial - look at the hammering Yosemite has taken (simply due to changes from Mavericks) and iOS 8 (in terms of changes from iOS 7), and most of the changes in both are not that obvious.

 

Never mind that the changes in terms of hardware are massive - look at the iPhone 6 and 6+ alone compared to the iPhone 5S/5c - leaving size completely out.

 

I have a rather nasty suspicion that the vast majority - even of Apple's base - would have been happier with a Mavericks and iOS update package (as opposed to Yosemite and iOS 8) no matter HOW backward-compatible both are.  Hardware changes are a LOT easier to accept than OS changes, even if the OS must change to be able to put the hardware changes to use.

 

It's not extreme change that most folks detest - folks see ANY change, even necessary ones, as "extreme" if they have no plans on changing their hardware - and, to be honest, most users would ONLY change hardware - even phone hardware , when their existing hardware broke.  The rapid obsolescence in terms of smartphones and tablets is showing signs of resistance - and this is especially true of Android.  (Still, It's been showing in terms of Apple hardware, as well.)  Windows 8+ - including Threshold - is backward-compatible - in terms of hardware - in a way that OS X has largely eschewed; how much merely in terms of hardware since Snow Leopard has been thrown under the bus just up to Mavericks?  The telling fact is that I lost less in terms of applications going from 7 to 8.1 update 1 than going merely from Lion to Mavericks - let alone losses going from Lion to the current DP of Yosemite.  I'm not saying that there wasn't change between Windows 7 and even Windows 8.1 - that would be a rather large lie.  However, the change is mostly aesthetic - applications - and especially desktop applications - could, in fact, care less.  (Except for those third-party applications that got replaced by included features, I brought every desktop application that I was using in Windows 7 with me to the present.  That wasn't something I could say in the case of merely moving from Lion to Mavericks - let alone to Yosemite.)

 

It's not JUST Windows; change in terms of operating systems, applications, games, etc., is less and less acceptable these days.  Instead, the mantra has become "Don't change - no change is acceptable."

As I stated in a later post, 'extreme' was the wrong word to use.

 

> However, the change is mostly aesthetic.

This is what I was trying to get to.

 

I'm just not a fan of Metro (from an aesthetic point of view) full stop, and I'm sure there's many more people out there who aren't also. Yes, I've used Windows 8 for HOURS/DAYS at a time, however it doesn't make me any more productive than I am on Windows 7. Win 7's features actually have made me more productive (especially Recents in the Start menu, plus many others). This should be what an OS upgrade is about, not just a theme change.

 

The Win 9 Start menu offers absolutely no benefits from what I can see, and just isn't aesthetically pleasing to me (and I don't expect this to change). That's why I've stated in other areas that the changes being made are 'just for the sake of it', to get things to match the Metro guidelines (which probably won't be around for much longer - sorry Dot Matrix).

 

Yosemite on the other hand IS an aesthetically-pleasing change, and I welcome that. Snow Leopard-Mavericks are starting to look a bit old, however Yosemite has polish, color, transparency effects, perfectionism (things Windows USED to have). I can't wait to install it. Now, you may say 'but you wrote 'This should be what an OS upgrade is about, not just a theme change.''. I still hold that opinion; there's many things that I'd like added to Yosemite (especially in regards to window management), however for now I just want to try it FOR aesthetics, which Apple have always handled very well, and something I'm passionate about.

 

For now I'm thankful Windows 7 is what it is. However, more of an artistic/aesthetically-pleasing theme (over colored, flat rectangles/squares) would be welcome in latter versions.

[Dashel]

Second video: http://winfuture.de/videos/Software/Windows-9-Startmenue-geht-auch-ganz-ohne-Live-Tiles-12912.html

 

You can use the new start menu without any tiles as well.

Classic is back :)

 

Seems like you should be able to drag and drop your app tiles vs so much individual pinning now that they can be side by side.

 

I still don't get the notifications, nor would I want anything like Apple's implementation or what Gabe describes.

[Dashel]

I cannot overstate my preference for this option. The level of categorization offered by the Start screen for applications - name, date installed, frequency of use, and category - is unparalleled in a Windows release, and I do not see how it would be possible with the Start menu.

 

Seems easy enough to add a search filter to either location.

[PGHammer]

As I stated in a later post, 'extreme' was the wrong word to use.

 

> However, the change is mostly aesthetic.

This is what I was trying to get to.

 

I'm just not a fan of Metro (from an aesthetic point of view) full stop, and I'm sure there's many more people out there who aren't also. Yes, I've used Windows 8 for HOURS/DAYS at a time, however it doesn't make me any more productive than I am on Windows 7. Win 7's features actually have made me more productive (especially Recents in the Start menu, plus many others). This should be what an OS upgrade is about, not just a theme change.

 

The Win 9 Start menu offers absolutely no benefits from what I can see, and just isn't aesthetically pleasing to me (and I don't expect this to change). That's why I've stated in other areas that the changes being made are 'just for the sake of it', to get things to match the Metro guidelines (which probably won't be around for much longer - sorry Dot Matrix).

 

Yosemite on the other hand IS an aesthetically-pleasing change, and I welcome that. Snow Leopard-Mavericks are starting to look a bit old, however Yosemite has polish, color, transparency effects, perfectionism (things Windows USED to have). I can't wait to install it. Now, you may say 'but you wrote 'This should be what an OS upgrade is about, not just a theme change.''. I still hold that opinion; there's many things that I'd like added to Yosemite (especially in regards to window management), however for now I just want to try it FOR aesthetics, which Apple have always handled very well, and something I'm passionate about.

 

For now I'm thankful Windows 7 is what it is. However, more of an artistic/aesthetically-pleasing theme (over colored, flat rectangles/squares) would be welcome in latter versions.

Aesthetics is like politics - it may look good, but what does it actually do for you at the end of the day?

 

Notice I am not saying a particular type of politics, but ALL politics.  And like politics, aesthetics is very subjective.

 

Where Mavericks (and Yosemite) are improvements over Windows (in my opinion) have nothing to do with aesthetics, but a lot to do with how each operating system actually works - however, neither Yosemite OR Mavericks has what it takes to replace Windows as my go-to OS on an everyday basis - yet.

 

Operating systems - AND their applications, utilities, etc., - are like tools and a toolbox.  What matters is do they work how you need them to.

 

I will not make decisions on my tools - or my toolbox - based on aesthetics; I'm not that shallow.

[George P Global Moderator]

It sounds like they're playing around with different things in different builds,  we're really not getting the whole picture here, thus the two different search areas in this build at this point.

[Gabe84]

Second video: http://winfuture.de/videos/Software/Windows-9-Startmenue-geht-auch-ganz-ohne-Live-Tiles-12912.html

 

You can use the new start menu without any tiles as well.

I like that, just like I said in the comments on the article I also like the idea of the other user of using apps like widgets, or obviously as I've said before in the notifications center, borrowing the idea from Yosemite of a notifications center used to display more info than just notifications.

 

Now, the only thing left (for me) is for the menu to display desktop programs first, before apps, and then I don't think I'll have any more complaints.

[Stoffel]

Now, the only thing left (for me) is for the menu to display desktop programs first, before apps, and then I don't think I'll have any more complaints.

 

Since you will remove all Metro Apps anyway you don't have to worry about this :)

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Next Win 9 preview video: Virtual desktops in action.

 

http://winfuture.de/videos/Software/Windows-9-Der-neue-Multi-Desktop-in-Aktion-12915.html

[George P Global Moderator]

Don't know if anyone catched it but I think the video shows the new alt+tab view/UI.  There's no box anymore just bigger thumbnails to tab between it seems.

[Ian S.]

Don't know if anyone catched it but I think the video shows the new alt+tab view/UI.  There's no box anymore just bigger thumbnails to tab between it seems.

I think they are just using the tab to switch between the selection of the window in VD view, I don't think there is a combo yet.It also looks like the Virtual Desktop view can get pretty crowded, hopefully they can fix that somehow.