2 Dallas Cops Shot @ Anti-Police Protest - BLM

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

8 minutes ago, Stoffel said:

What are you all rambling about now Gary? You jump right into a back and forth between 2 people to start talking about something completely different.

And who says no one gives a damn?

 

It's horrible what happened, but it's not a surprise to me at all that it did happen.

And if cops keep policing the way they are there will be a lot more of these horrific crimes happening in the future

It is quite obvious that the tone of this thread is more concerned with Black Lives Matter than it does for the victims. It seems like most of you feel that they deserved it.

[Rippleman]

6 minutes ago, Stoffel said:

And if cops keep policing the way they are there will be a lot more of these horrific crimes happening in the future

OR here is a crazy thought... during a traffic stop/questioning people could 

 

1) Be polite though the entire process

2) Do not talk down to police

3) Do not resist the police

4) Do not fight with police

5) Do not make aggressive/sharp/quick actions with police

6) Listen to all commands

7) Obey all commands

8) Answer all questions with a "yes sir/no sir"

9) take any grievances or objections to proper authorities AFTER the occurrence. 

 

I virtually guarantee 99.999999999% of the time, if ANYONE follows these basic things, they WILL NOT GET SHOT.

 

[Rippleman]

26 minutes ago, Emn1ty said:

Statistics do show poor treatment. But there's logical reason for it, and it's difficult to make it a case about race when you can remove racial crosses and easily replace them with income and criminality and you get some parallels. The reality is it's not about race, it's about economic status. Blacks are disproportionately poor, disproportionately involved in criminal activity and therefore they are disproportionately involved with the police.

But that doesn't you can grab any old black guy and put a cop and they'll treat them the same way. Context matters, a rich black woman driving a Mercedes who's polite to the cops will likely be treated better than a poor white male who gives the cop a hard time about speeding. You have to look at all the factors, not just a few that paint the picture you want. Income, economic standing is the primary attribute. The moment your income drops, your chances for criminal activity and encounters with the law goes up exponentially. So much so it's a safer bet by the police to profile those in poverty as often being the sources of drugs, violence and other criminality.

But that's the cost of preventative policing. Profiling. The other end of the spectrum is responsive policing, where nothing is done until after something happens. Is that better? Is that worth not rubbing people the wrong way?

holy sh*t, first time for everything, i agree with you! lol

[Stoffel]

13 minutes ago, Emn1ty said:

Statistics do show poor treatment. But there's logical reason for it, and it's difficult to make it a case about race when you can remove racial crosses and easily replace them with income and criminality and you get some parallels. The reality is it's not about race, it's about economic status. Blacks are disproportionately poor, disproportionately involved in criminal activity and therefore they are disproportionately involved with the police.

But that doesn't you can grab any old black guy and put a cop and they'll treat them the same way. Context matters, a rich black woman driving a Mercedes who's polite to the cops will likely be treated better than a poor white male who gives the cop a hard time about speeding. You have to look at all the factors, not just a few that paint the picture you want. Income, economic standing is the primary attribute. The moment your income drops, your chances for criminal activity and encounters with the law goes up exponentially. So much so it's a safer bet by the police to profile those in poverty as often being the sources of drugs, violence and other criminality.

But that's the cost of preventative policing. Profiling. The other end of the spectrum is responsive policing, where nothing is done until after something happens. Is that better? Is that worth not rubbing people the wrong way?

I actually agree with most of what you say. Social background, income all have to do with it but i do not believe that racism has nothing to do with it.

Sadly enough racism has been a big part of US history and it is still engrained in a large part of the population, just go and read the first 2 pages of this thread.

[Rippleman]

3 minutes ago, Stoffel said:

just go and read the first 2 pages of this thread.

I have just looked over the first 2 pages and can not see what you speak of. Some one else asked you to quote and you didn't, so I am asking you... can you quote the rascits comments in the first 2 pages that you speak of? Curious to know what it is that you deem racist.

[ramesees]

Just now, Stoffel said:

I actually agree with most of what you say. Social background, income all have to do with it but i do not believe that racism has nothing to do with it.

Sadly enough racism has been a big part of US history and it is still engrained in a large part of the population, just go and read the first 2 pages of this thread.

Racism is a 2-way road though - Black people can be racist towards White people just as much as White people can be racist towards Black people.

Same goes for Asians and all other "races" we have.

 

The problem with using words like "racist" is that they predominantly mean only one thing - "Whites being racist towards non-Whites" which is utterly disingenuous and does nothing but fan the flames of division and hatred. There are those that say things like "oh Black people cant be racist" etc.. which is just ludicrous but that mindset is prevalent in a lot places as well.

 

Until ALL forms of racism are treated equally and reported on equally then we wont have true equality.

[trag3dy]

 

People saying "we just don't get it" for BLM. What a bunch of nonsense Yes, we do get it. And we don't like it. 

 

I'll take BLM seriously when they stop doing things like interrupting and holding hostage LGBTQ+ parades and making demands of them because they feel like their oppression is more important than that of others. Or when black people stop committing more crimes than their population representation. Or when they actually care about the 2000+ black lives that have been lost in Chicago this year alone, due to violence. Or when they stop going after other black people who speak out against them, doxxing them and calling for them to be killed on social media all because they speak out against the blm narrative. Until those things happen BLM deserves derision and hate for being the racist and hypocritical group that it is.

 

Now, as for the shootings:

 

 

Also in Georgia a police officer was murdered after responding to a 911 call by the person who placed the 911 call, in an ambush.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

8 minutes ago, Rippleman said:

OR here is a crazy thought... during a traffic stop/questioning people could 

 

1) Be polite though the entire process

2) Do not talk down to police

3) Do not resist the police

4) Do not fight with police

5) Do not make aggressive/sharp/quick actions with police

6) Listen to all commands

7) Obey all commands

8) Answer all questions with a "yes sir/no sir"

9) take any grievances or objections to proper authorities AFTER the occurrence. 

 

I virtually guarantee 99.999999999% of the time, if ANYONE follows these basic things, they WILL NOT GET SHOT.

 

I'm a firm believer there should be a law ... prior to being given your driver's license (or being renewed) you must sign a form that acknowledges you must follow something similar to below when pulled over.

 

1) Slow down ... pull over to a safe area
2) Turn off vehicle / Roll down window(s)
3) Have your driver’s license/registration/concealed carry permit (if applicable) on your dash, ready, before the cop walks up  
4) Have your hands on the steering where the cop can see them...preferably with your fingers pointed out (not gripping the wheel)
5) Comply with all instructions ... let the cop know (after requested) that your license/registration/concealed carry permit is on the dash ... and you're getting them.  If applicable, let him know the location/type of any weapons in the vehicle.
6) Hand documents over with one hand ... leaving the other hand on the wheel
7) After surrendering documents ... keep hands on the wheel ... until cop instructs otherwise (by handing you a ticket/warning/telling you to have a "nice day")

 

That is just for traffic stops ... which are really dangerous for police officers.  I agree with everything you posted.  Be courteous to the cops ... they aren't the jury ... they are doing the job.  You can fight it later if you believe the cop was in the wrong.  You're not going to convince the cop that he/she was wrong ... and it certainly doesn't help if you keep agitating him/her.  Be courteous ... and the worst that will happen is you'll get a ticket ... the best thing is you might get off with a warning.  Start throwing attitude ... you probably will not get off with a warning ... but a ticket, a free ride to the jail and sometimes a bullet.

 

It is really simple ... not following these unwritten rules could raise the cops tension.  Remember, he/she has no idea who you are or what your intentions are.  Even if your wallet is in your back pocket ... it could be seen as if you're going for a weapon.  The cop only has a split second to react or they may not be going home that night.  Best to have everything out ... ready to go since you know the cop will be asking for them anyway.

 

Simple logic ... probably should be a law (IMO).  Have your stuff out ready, keep movements down to a bare minimum ... makes it so much easier on the cop and you. 

[Stoffel]

2 minutes ago, ramesees said:

Racism is a 2-way road though - Black people can be racist towards White people just as much as White people can be racist towards Black people.

Same goes for Asians and all other "races" we have.

 

The problem with using words like "racist" is that they predominantly mean only one thing - "Whites being racist towards non-Whites" which is utterly disingenuous and does nothing but fan the flames of division and hatred. There are those that say things like "oh Black people cant be racist" etc.. which is just ludicrous but that mindset is prevalent in a lot places as well.

 

Until ALL forms of racism are treated equally and reported on equally then we wont have true equality.

I'm white and live on a Caribbean Island mainly inhabited by Hispanic and black people. I have seen first hand racism from both groups towards white people.

Yet i still stand by everything i have posted so far. And i don't believe that everybody thinks racism is only possible in one direction, there are maybe plenty of people here that do in these threads about BLM and so on.

[Gone]

45 minutes ago, Stoffel said:

What are you all rambling about now Gary? You jump right into a back and forth between 2 people to start talking about something completely different.

And who says no one gives a damn?

 

It's horrible what happened, but it's not a surprise to me at all that it did happen.

And if cops keep policing the way they are there will be a lot more of these horrific crimes happening in the future

You mean if cops keep arresting black people who commit crimes or a black person who is resisting arrest because they feel they aren't doing anything wrong just happens to get shot because the taser doesn't work? Yah if that'ts the case then I say every cop in America should walk off the force for a month in protest of ignorant ###### breaking the law but claiming innocence, or resisting arrest (valid or not) and getting shot. 

 

Don't want to get shot: Don't commit crimes and don't resist arrest even if you didn't do anything wrong. The courtroom is the time and place for this, a counter lawsuit for wrongful arrest may also make you richer.

 

What is hard about understanding that?

Edit:

 

Also statistically a higher ration of whites and hispanics are killed by cops, while a higher proportion of blacks commit crimes. Look it up yourself, it's out there.

[trag3dy]

 

[ATLien_0]

Just going to leave it at this. Trevor Noah sums up greatly how this is an American issue not just a Black issue. 

What happened in Dallas last night is unacceptable by any means. I saw the peaceful BLM protests last night here in Atlanta and it really showed how the movement has evolved into an All Lives Matter group. However there are some members in other cities like Dallas that took things to far, these are the ones not helping the movement, these are the ones that are not helping the perception that many have in this country of blacks being thugs especially when the news is just filled with black on black crime, and people being held at gun point at malls for instance. 

 

[wakjak]

1 hour ago, Rippleman said:

According to stats, Fords needed repairing 95% more then other makes.

 

Point: stats don't mean nothing without context.

I would say that those stats about Fords would be pretty accurate.

 

And about your point. stats mean something without context?

[hagjohn]

31 minutes ago, trag3dy said:

 

People saying "we just don't get it" for BLM. What a bunch of nonsense Yes, we do get it. And we don't like it. 

 

I'll take BLM seriously when they stop doing things like interrupting and holding hostage LGBTQ+ parades and making demands of them because they feel like their oppression is more important than that of others. Or when black people stop committing more crimes than their population representation. Or when they actually care about the 2000+ black lives that have been lost in Chicago this year alone, due to violence. Or when they stop going after other black people who speak out against them, doxxing them and calling for them to be killed on social media all because they speak out against the blm narrative. Until those things happen BLM deserves derision and hate for being the racist and hypocritical group that it is.

 

Now, as for the shootings:

 

 

Also in Georgia a police officer was murdered after responding to a 911 call by the person who placed the 911 call, in an ambush.

Fox News/Dan Patrick blaming BLM.... I am so shocked. I didn't see that coming at all. 

[Stoffel]

6 minutes ago, jjkusaf said:

I'm a firm believer there should be a law ... prior to being given your driver's license (or being renewed) you must sign a form that acknowledges you must follow something similar to below when pulled over.

 

1) Slow down ... pull over to a safe area
2) Turn off vehicle / Roll down window(s)
3) Have your driver’s license/registration/concealed carry permit (if applicable) on your dash, ready, before the cop walks up  
4) Have your hands on the steering where the cop can see them...preferably with your fingers pointed out (not gripping the wheel)
5) Comply with all instructions ... let the cop know (after requested) that your license/registration/concealed carry permit is on the dash ... and you're getting them.  If applicable, let him know the location/type of any weapons in the vehicle.
6) Hand documents over with one hand ... leaving the other hand on the wheel
7) After surrendering documents ... keep hands on the wheel ... until cop instructs otherwise (by handing you a ticket/warning/telling you to have a "nice day")

 

That is just for traffic stops ... which are really dangerous for police officers.  I agree with everything you posted.  Be courteous to the cops ... they aren't the jury ... they are doing the job.  You can fight it later if you believe the cop was in the wrong.  You're not going to convince the cop that he/she was wrong ... and it certainly doesn't help if you keep agitating him/her.  Be courteous ... and the worst that will happen is you'll get a ticket ... the best thing is you might get off with a warning.  Start throwing attitude ... you probably will not get off with a warning ... but a ticket, a free ride to the jail and sometimes a bullet.

 

It is really simple ... not following these unwritten rules could raise the cops tension.  Remember, he/she has no idea who you are or what your intentions are.  Even if your wallet is in your back pocket ... it could be seen as if you're going for a weapon.  The cop only has a split second to react or they may not be going home that night.  Best to have everything out ... ready to go since you know the cop will be asking for them anyway.

 

Simple logic ... probably should be a law (IMO).  Have your stuff out ready, keep movements down to a bare minimum ... makes it so much easier on the cop and you. 

only in America do people find it normal that you have to worry so much about not getting into trouble with the police.

This list is just crazy to anybody from Europe i think.

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

Just in case you want to see the Victims.

4 minutes ago, Stoffel said:

only in America do people find it normal that you have to worry so much about not getting into trouble with the police.

This list is just crazy to anybody from Europe i think.

So you have been in Europe?

[Stoffel]

1 minute ago, Gary7 said:

Just in case you want to see the Victims.

So you have been in Europe?

Well yes, I am from Europe, lived there for 27 years before i moved to the Caribbean.

And I've had contact with cops in many different countries in Europe, most of them are friendly and pleasant, they don't assume you are going to kill them before they even talk to you. Most of them you can reason with

[Gibblets]

Wow.. I thought it was ISIS at first, because not in my wildest imagination would I expect a racially motivated mass shooting against police, how far we have fallen.. 

[trag3dy]

11 minutes ago, hagjohn said:

Fox News/Dan Patrick blaming BLM.... I am so shocked. I didn't see that coming at all. 

So did you have anything useful to add or do you just not like the source so that automatically makes the message invalid?

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

35 minutes ago, Stoffel said:

I'm white and live on a Caribbean Island mainly inhabited by Hispanic and black people. I have seen first hand racism from both groups towards white people.

Yet i still stand by everything i have posted so far. And i don't believe that everybody thinks racism is only possible in one direction, there are maybe plenty of people here that do in these threads about BLM and so on.

As it is in Honduras .

[Jim K Global Moderator]

19 minutes ago, Stoffel said:

only in America do people find it normal that you have to worry so much about not getting into trouble with the police.

This list is just crazy to anybody from Europe i think.

This isn't Europe.  Our cops get killed during "routine" traffic stops.  To ease the cops tension ... simply have everything out, ready to go and let them see your hands.

 

Also far as the "list" being bad (maybe long winded) ... it really isn't.  Simple. Turn off car, roll down windows, have license/registration on the dash, hands on the wheel ... follow cops instructions.  Everyone goes home.

 

If you don't agree with the cop ... take it up in court.  He/she isn't the judge.

[hagjohn]

9 minutes ago, trag3dy said:

So did you have anything useful to add or do you just not like the source so that automatically makes the message invalid?

Same old BS. They do not want to solve the issue, they just want to bitch about who's fault it is. 

[metallithrax]

4 hours ago, jjkusaf said:

There is nothing wrong with calling someone "white", "black", "tall", "short" ... etc...especially in cases where you do not know their name.  

Seriously!!  You think it is OK to address someone by their colour/height/weight just because you don't know their name

[Jim K Global Moderator]

Just now, metallithrax said:

Seriously!!  You think it is OK to address someone by their colour/height/weight just because you don't know their name

Did I say "address someone by their color"?  Nope.  

[metallithrax]

6 minutes ago, jjkusaf said:

Did I say "address someone by their color"?  Nope.  

Did you not read the part I quoted?  It is exactly as you posted it and it says:

 

"There is nothing wrong with calling someone "white", "black", "tall", "short" ... etc...especially in cases where you do not know their name.."

 

How is that not addressing them?