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On 16/02/2024 at 10:31, DocM said:

Stainless steel retains its anti-corrosion properties because of a chromium oxide layer that forms on the surface.  If this erodes, iron crystals are exposed which can cause the rust marks.

The cause is usually exposure to chlorine compounds, such as road salt or salt spray near the coast. Another problem can be community water supplies which use a stronger than usual chlorination. This is common to  stainless steels, and well-documented including in the Tesla and rest of the world.

The correction is a process called passivation. The area is cleaned and rinsed thoroughly, then the rust marks removed using a Scotch-Brite pad moving with the grain. Next you mix up some citric acid {commercial available} and coat the area, leaving it to sit. Commercially, they use a weak nitric acid. Either will regenerate the chromium oxide layer.

To reduce such instances, go get a clear wrap applied. 

File under lost generational knowledge.  Previous generations knew how to do passivation because stainless steel sinks and other goods are also subject to chromium oxide layer erosion. It's why kitchen sponges have a Scotch-Brite pad.

 

One would like to think that for the cost of that vehicle, it would have been done by Tesla as a standard feature. I guess this didn't fall under their testing parameters, and if it didn't, what else did they miss?

File under, company screwing over customers.

On 16/02/2024 at 13:54, FloatingFatMan said:

So what you're saying is that Musk is unable to figure out how to do something EVERY SINGLE OTHER car maker around the world has been doing for generations? :p  Sounds about right!

I can't believe they didn't test this beforehand.

On 16/02/2024 at 16:17, FloatingFatMan said:

You're talking about a company that can't even fix panel gaps in their production line...

But but but...its within industry tolerances!

:D

 

On 16/02/2024 at 18:15, adrynalyne said:

One would like to think that for the cost of that vehicle, it would have been done by Tesla as a standard feature. I guess this didn't fall under their testing parameters, and if it didn't, what else did they miss?

File under, company screwing over customers.

I can't believe they didn't test this beforehand.

 

The Motor Trend article indicates that it was probably rail dust eroding the surface during shipment, exposing the iron crystals on some vehicles and allowing them to corrode.

Rail dust is iron powder kicked up by train  wheels & rails, and it's very abrasive. Spitballing it, trains passing each other would probably exhibit maximum effect. Motor Trend also indicates it is not a widespread problem.

Heading another color issue off at the pass; high heat can also cause stainless steel to turn purple or dark blue. The fix, again, is passivation. When Starship comes back from reentry, it will exhibit this effect. Same steel, produced for Tesla and SpaceX by Outokumpu,

Also note, Tesla sells wraps with their vehicles for added protection - most exterior panels being aluminum - and stainless steel or aluminum are increasingly used in automotive construction including the frame (most automakers are moving to cast aluminum frames, and stainless is already in wide use in cars). 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/teslcybertruck-rust-reports-analysis/#:~:text=They make it seem like,stainless steel%2C resistant to corrosion!

 

Edited by DocM
On 16/02/2024 at 21:28, DocM said:

 

The Motor Trend article indicates that it was probably rail dust eroding the surface during shipment, exposing the iron crystals on some vehicles and allowing them to corrode.

Rail dust is iron powder kicked up by train  wheels & rails, and it's very abrasive. Spitballing it, trains passing each other would probably exhibit maximum effect. Motor Trend also indicates it is not a widespread problem.

Heading another color issue off at the pass; high heat can also cause stainless steel to turn purple or dark blue. The fix, again, is passivation.

Also note, Tesla sells wraps with their vehicles for added protection - most exterior panels being aluminum - and stainless steel or aluminum are increasingly used in automotive construction including the frame (most automakers are moving to cast aluminum frames, and stainless is already in wide use in cars). 

https://www.motortrend.com/news/teslcybertruck-rust-reports-analysis/#:~:text=They make it seem like,stainless steel%2C resistant to corrosion!

 

1. It doesn’t matter what caused it, it’s not the customers fault and it shouldn’t have been that simple to cause regardless if it’s only some and lets be honest, how many are actually out there right now to shrug it off as no big deal? How come this is primarily a problem with just the CT?
 

2. It doesn’t matter if Tesla sells wraps out not, they should be offering it standard for the cost of six figure vehicle prone to rust. 
 

3. For a vehicle that’s been advertised as so tough, it’s pretty funny to see it…rust. Seriously, with how it’s advertised, why would a customer think it needs extra protection???

 

4. How many salespeople at Tesla advertised the CT as being able to rust under certain conditions? I bet….0. 

Edited by adrynalyne
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On 16/02/2024 at 23:42, adrynalyne said:

1. It doesn’t matter what caused it, it’s not the customers fault and it shouldn’t have been that simple to cause regardless if it’s only some and lets be honest, how many are actually out there right now to shrug it off as no big deal? How come this is primarily a problem with just the CT?

We probably won't know the production until the end of the quarter, but full ramp for the Austin, Texas factory would be 250,000/yr. There's a pure based on past ramps, 3,000 a week starting in December. The just starting construction Monterrey, Mexico factory should greatly increase this. It'll also build the Semi and "Model 2". M2 may or may not be in the Cyber family.

 

On 16/02/2024 at 23:42, adrynalyne said:

 

 

2. It doesn’t matter if Tesla sells wraps out not, they should be offering it standard for the cost of six figure vehicle prone to rust. 

None of this has been top secret, it's been widely discussed along with the need for occasional passivation since the announcement and wraps are recommended.

Let's be honest, to prevent paint from degrading we put a lot of effort into washing and waxing our vehicles, especially salty environments like the coasts and here in Winter country where salt is used on the roads. 

SSDD

On 16/02/2024 at 18:19, adrynalyne said:

But but but...its within industry tolerances!

:D

Panel gap on a Ford truck is frequently up to b15 mm, and I know guys who have had their F-150 gaps adjusted almost yearly. It don't stick.

Tesla standard is no more than 8 mm. Above that they will service it.

On 16/02/2024 at 22:26, DocM said:

Panel gap on a Ford truck is frequently up to b15 mm, and I know guys who have had their F-150 gaps adjusted almost yearly. It don't stick.

Tesla standard is no more than 8 mm. Above that they will service it.

What about what about what about. WTF does Ford have to do with CT or Musk?

  • Like 4
On 16/02/2024 at 22:02, DocM said:

We probably won't know the production until the end of the quarter, but full ramp for the Austin, Texas factory would be 250,000/yr. There's a pure based on past ramps, 3,000 a week starting in December. The just starting construction Monterrey, Mexico factory should greatly increase this. It'll also build the Semi and "Model 2". M2 may or may not be in the Cyber family.

 

None of this has been top secret, it's been widely discussed along with the need for occasional passivation since the announcement and wraps are recommended.

Let's be honest, to prevent paint from degrading we put a lot of effort into washing and waxing our vehicles, especially salty environments like the coasts and here in Winter country where salt is used on the roads. 

SSDD


It doesn’t matter how many will be made in a year. What matters is how many this is happening to vs how many are currently out there in the wild.

Let’s be honest, companies don’t make stainless steel vehicles for this very reason, well that and cost. What’s the point of using some expensive material to make your vehicle if it cannot withstand a car wash without rusting? This is not SSDD, because painted vehicles can be washed without risk of rust spots. Even if it was SSDD, then it would mean that this “high-tech” material the CT was built with was what many of us suspected, a publicity stunt. Worse, it can’t even be safely washed. 
 

I could chalk this up to first gen issues, which we see everywhere. You are actually defending it and think it’s fine though. None of this is top secret? Way to blame the consumer.
 

Hop off Daddy Musk’s lap, it’s gross. 
 

I hope Tesla rights this wrong and provides a coating, free of charge. 

Edited by adrynalyne
On 17/02/2024 at 06:42, adrynalyne said:


Worse, it can’t even be safely washed. 

Forget washing, you can't even drive the things in the rain without them screwing up...

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-couple-fume-handed-17k-27906242

 

On 17/02/2024 at 06:42, adrynalyne said:

Hop off Daddy Musk’s lap, it’s gross. 

I've never understood people who white knight for corporations.  Don't they realise the corp doesn't give 2 cents about them, doesn't even know they exist?

 

On 17/02/2024 at 06:42, adrynalyne said:

I hope Tesla rights this wrong and provides a coating, free of charge. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :rofl: 

  • Like 2
On 17/02/2024 at 00:10, FloatingFatMan said:

Forget washing, you can't even drive the things in the rain without them screwing up...

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-couple-fume-handed-17k-27906242

 

I've never understood people who white knight for corporations.  Don't they realise the corp doesn't give 2 cents about them, doesn't even know they exist?

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :rofl: 

Yeah, I know. It’s not going to happen. Re: article, WTF?

On 16/02/2024 at 23:28, DocM said:

The Motor Trend article indicates that it was probably rail dust eroding the surface during shipment, exposing the iron crystals on some vehicles and allowing them to corrode.

Rail dust is iron powder kicked up by train  wheels & rails, and it's very abrasive. Spitballing it, trains passing each other would probably exhibit maximum effect. Motor Trend also indicates it is not a widespread problem.

 

Did they think to “shrink wrap” the vehicles to prevent this?  I see this all the time on car carriers on the highway.

General question, did the DeLorean‘s rust?

Mods: can these be moved to the Cyber Truck thread?

  • Like 2
On 17/02/2024 at 08:19, primortal said:

Did they think to “shrink wrap” the vehicles to prevent this?  I see this all the time on car carriers on the highway.

General question, did the DeLorean‘s rust?

Mods: can these be moved to the Cyber Truck thread?

A general Google search reveals that Deloreans did not rust. At least not their stainless panels. Which makes all this even more amusing. 
 

There might be some cases out there but I didn’t see them. 

  • Like 2

Glad to see the usual crew of know-it-alls are here countering anything said with their negative viewpoint.  How dare anyone offer an opinion that is neutral, pro-Tesla, or simply facts.  We can't have that.  All comments must be negative, complaining, or in some way bashing any and all things related to Tesla or Cybertruck.  For good measure, the aforementioned know-it-alls usually are all too willing to bring up Musk or even Trump as well.  They can't miss an opportunity to bash on them.

On 17/02/2024 at 18:29, JayZJay said:

Glad to see the usual crew of know-it-alls are here countering anything said with their negative viewpoint.  How dare anyone offer an opinion that is neutral, pro-Tesla, or simply facts.  We can't have that.  All comments must be negative, complaining, or in some way bashing any and all things related to Tesla or Cybertruck.  For good measure, the aforementioned know-it-alls usually are all too willing to bring up Musk or even Trump as well.  They can't miss an opportunity to bash on them.

Oh look, the Musk lackey has returned. 
 

Not sure how or why anyone would spin a positive on a truck rusting from rain or washing. 

On 18/02/2024 at 01:29, JayZJay said:

Glad to see the usual crew of know-it-alls are here countering anything said with their negative viewpoint.  How dare anyone offer an opinion that is neutral, pro-Tesla, or simply facts.  We can't have that.  All comments must be negative, complaining, or in some way bashing any and all things related to Tesla or Cybertruck.  For good measure, the aforementioned know-it-alls usually are all too willing to bring up Musk or even Trump as well.  They can't miss an opportunity to bash on them.

And why exactly would they not given the daily bountiful receipts both offer up so freely in order to do exact that? Or should we just allow those who do nothing other than promise others they shall soon hit a ball to the moon with their own brand of bat in hand only to ever consistently falter and splutter accumulating yet more non-delivery. Such continued poor form ie untethered unchecked some would say unhinged types tend to typically and rightfully draw in that form of criticism.

The opportunity to bash so often comes about due to the necessary reasonings to do so and there's more than enough to go around in that regard and they themselves create that very negative viewpoint on a daily basis often umpteen times a day. 

  • Like 2
On 18/02/2024 at 01:29, JayZJay said:

Glad to see the usual crew of know-it-alls are here countering anything said with their positive viewpoint.  How dare anyone offer an opinion that is neutral, against Tesla, or simply facts.  We can't have that.  All comments must be positive, simping musk, or in some way glorifying any and all things related to Tesla or Cybertruck.  For good measure, the aforementioned know-it-alls usually are all too willing to bring up its the owners fault as well.  They can't miss an opportunity to bash on them.

Fixed that for you.... the usuals all turn up to simp musk if anything bad is said about him or anything he fecks up.

On 16/02/2024 at 15:54, FloatingFatMan said:

So what you're saying is that Musk is unable to figure out how to do something EVERY SINGLE OTHER car maker around the world has been doing for generations? :p  Sounds about right!

Apparently the rust dust, also known as rail dust because of its association with train tracks, is the main problem. It can settle on vehicles during rail transport, or get on a vehicle just driving it on the road - it can come off of brake drums and discs when they are used and collects around the road.

Also, it often collects on other vehicles but particularly shows up on white and silver cars.

Tesla recommends using a blue Scotch Brite, and cleaning with either Bartender's Friend or Citrisurf  77 - which is a passivation cleaner for stainless steel.  About $7 on Amazon for the consumer version, a bit more for the pro version.

 

On 19/02/2024 at 12:24, DocM said:

Apparently the rust dust, also known as rail dust because of its association with train tracks, is the main problem. It can settle on vehicles during rail transport, or get on a vehicle just driving it on the road - it can come off of brake drums and discs when they are used and collects around the road.

Also, it often collects on other vehicles but particularly shows up on white and silver cars.

Tesla recommends using a blue Scotch Brite, and cleaning with either Bartender's Friend or Citrisurf  77 - which is a passivation cleaner for stainless steel.  About $7 on Amazon for the consumer version, a bit more for the pro version.

 

Why isn’t Tesla wrapping their CTs during transport?

  • Like 2
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On 19/02/2024 at 19:24, DocM said:

Apparently the rust dust, also known as rail dust because of its association with train tracks, is the main problem. It can settle on vehicles during rail transport, or get on a vehicle just driving it on the road - it can come off of brake drums and discs when they are used and collects around the road.

Also, it often collects on other vehicles but particularly shows up on white and silver cars.

Tesla recommends using a blue Scotch Brite, and cleaning with either Bartender's Friend or Citrisurf  77 - which is a passivation cleaner for stainless steel.  About $7 on Amazon for the consumer version, a bit more for the pro version.

 

Nope. It's totally on Tesla to make sure their vehicles don't corrode 5 minutes out of the damn factory. Quit white knighting Doc, it's pathetic.

 

On 19/02/2024 at 16:55, FloatingFatMan said:

Nope. It's totally on Tesla to make sure their vehicles don't corrode 5 minutes out of the damn factory. Quit white knighting Doc, it's pathetic.

 

It's not the Cybertruck that's corroding, it's iron dust (a component of road dust) that is falling on the vehicle. Sometimes it's  from shipping by rail, but iron dust is also deposited on every road - particles that come off of disc rotors and drums which settle around the road are most common.

There's so much of it that it's becoming a medical issue, in no small part because of the metal contained therein.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30499095/#:~:text=There are several sources in,as the dominant metallic element.

 

" There are several sources in road traffic which generate road dust particles, including exhaust and non-exhaust processes. Some of them (e.g., brake wear) produce iron as the dominant metallic element"

 

Microscopic they are, so they look like the rest of the road-dust but can corrode to brown. Most easily seen on light gray, white, and silver vehicles.

 

++++++++

Just for fun, Cybertrax

 

 

 

Edited by DocM
On 24/02/2024 at 18:42, DocM said:

 

It's not the Cybertruck that's corroding, it's iron dust (a component of road dust) that is falling on the vehicle. Sometimes it's  from shipping by rail, but iron dust is also deposited on every road - particles that come off of disc rotors and drums which settle around the road are most common.

There's so much of it that it's becoming a medical issue, in no small part because of the metal contained therein.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30499095/#:~:text=There are several sources in,as the dominant metallic element.

 

" There are several sources in road traffic which generate road dust particles, including exhaust and non-exhaust processes. Some of them (e.g., brake wear) produce iron as the dominant metallic element"

Microscopic they are, so they look like the rest of the road-dust but can corrode to brown. Most easily seen on light gray, white, and silver vehicles.

 

OK then Mr Genius White Knight.  Please explain why this "iron dust" only seems to be a problem with Tesla's Cybertruck?  Surely if what you claim is true, 1000's of non-Tesla vehicles would also be affected?

Also, whilst you're at it, could you please show us on the bear below just where Musk touched you that caused such ridiculous blind loyalty? ;)

1200px-Pyrkon_2017_Pedobear.jpg

  • Like 2
On 24/02/2024 at 13:42, DocM said:

It's not the Cybertruck that's corroding, it's iron dust (a component of road dust) that is falling on the vehicle.

Wait, what?  So wouldn’t rain/car wash remove it not contributing to it?

  • Like 3

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The device supports both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz Wi-Fi, as well as Bluetooth for discovery, so connection issues were minimal in my experience with it. As previously noted in the specs, the DWARF mini will stay connected with a phone or tablet up to 15 meters in an open environment, such as a backyard. Lighting status Powering on: The green circular light will rotate and breathe in turn Powering off: The red circular light is gradually extinguished Connecting: Green light strip rotating Connected: Green light strip solid/always on 4 lights 1= 0-25%, 2= 25-50%, 3= 50-75%, 4= 75-100% battery power To view the full lighting status, such as tracking mode and connection failure, you can check the user guide on the official DWARFLAB page. DWARFLAB app Above, you can see the steps undertaken to connect the DWARFLAB app to my Galaxy S26 Ultra. Weirdly, I got an alert that a firmware update failed to get uploaded to the DWARF mini the first time, but upon retrying, it worked. Then place the DWARF mini outside, make sure your smartphone or tablet is connected to it, and then head back inside, because you can manage it from the comfort of your home. Simply enter the Atlas tab in the app and search for what you want to capture, and then tap on the camera icon; the DWARF mini will then attempt to track the object and give you a live view right on your connected device. Results I've had the DWARF mini since April, but even though my garden is south-facing, I had a lot of trouble trying to capture a good image of the moon. In the end, it was possible after I took it with me on a trip to my parents in Southend, UK, at the end of May. Here is a capture of the moon, resulting from 20 stacked images over a 90-second exposure. What you are seeing here is not AI-assisted. A good example of what I mean is the latest flagships with their 200MP cameras claiming to capture things like closeups of the moon, and while they are not as good as the above example on the DWARF mini, the resulting image on smartphones is actually AI-assisted above 30X zoom. Here is an example of a similar shot at the moon at 200X zoom using an HONOR Magic8 Pro. The difference is clear. Next, here we have a shot of the daytime moon. Here is a shot of Arcturus, the red giant star, which is the fourth brightest in the night sky. As previously mentioned, it could be a bit clearer, but clouds passing in front of it muddied the shot a bit. The Sun The DWARF mini also ships with a sun filter, meaning you can take great shots of the sun as well. Tracking Sun Resulting (stacked) shot Live zoom The pictures themselves are limited to Full HD, and some of the examples actually came out in HD (1280x720), but this is because the standard telescopic result is in 720p while "Wide" is in 1080p. Above you can see how in the app the Sun is tracked, the resulting capture, and Live zoom. I have only scratched the surface of what is possible with this telescope; I found several examples online of shots of the Milky Way, among others, such as nebulae and galaxies. All of this requires patience and knowledge, although if you know what you are looking for, simply enter it in the Atlas tab in the DWARFLAB app, tap the camera icon, and the telescope will attempt to track it. Conclusion The good The DWARF mini definitely places itself in a price point that makes astrology accessible to anyone looking to get started in the hobby. Say you want to have a closer look at the moon, simply enter it in the Atlas, and the Live view also lets you zoom in and snap pictures. The bad Some issues I came across while operating the DWARF mini were that it sometimes failed to connect unless I held my smartphone right next to it, and finding and tracking sometimes took several attempts to get it calibrated. I discovered that it helped if I sort of positioned and pointed the telescope in the general area it was supposed to detect, but this obviously wouldn't work with objects you can't see with the naked eye; more testing is required for that. Another bit of advice is to ensure that the lens is clean. While making the examples of live zooming on the sun, I discovered that the telescope lens and sun filter were not completely clean, and only after cleaning with a microfiber cloth was I able to get a decent shot of the sun. Where to buy and a coupon Okay, $399 is not cheap for a side hobby, but nor is a $1,500 smartphone flagship that you'll most likely have for a couple of years. This is a one-time entrance into astrology, and it won't become obsolete in one year like a smartphone. It's a thumbs up from me. The DWARF mini is available to buy right now in the U.S. and U.K. at the links below. DWARF mini for $399 on the official site DWARF mini for $399 on Amazon U.S. Use the NEOWIN5OFF coupon code for an additional 5% off at checkout (expires June 21) As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
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