Mac OSX 10.5 Leopard build 9A241 leaked


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RSS doesn't really have a natural place. It's not really a website so it doesn't really go in browser. It's not a message so it's not really usenet or email. It's something wholly different but people really dislike having a dedicated application to use RSS and so the trend now is to build it in to whatever you can think of (mail, chat, browser, usenet client?) I don't really agree with any of that, but like most new technologies a lot of experimentation has to happen before they get it right.

I think RSS fits just fine in a browser like Safari. Most sites use RSS to display a simplified version of the website anyway. The only down side is that there isn't really a way to save the feeds like RSS clients do.

Hum... Mail became very bloated in my opinion...

I agree.

Edited by Neowave
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Traditionally they weren't the same application, unless by traditionally you mean "since Microsoft figured out what the Internet was". Over time some applications (notably pine, and later Lynx, outlook, netscape communicator, etc) picked up some usenet capabilities but usenet is decades older than any of those applications.

Well, there is Forte' Agent, which goes back to the Windows 3.1 days, and although primarily a newsreader, it also had a decent e-mail client built in from the start (at least as long as I can remember).

No it doesnt. The only NNTP client Apple has ever shipped with their operating system is emacs (seriously).

Actually, Apple did ship Outlook Express and Netscape with OS 8 and OS 9, but if you are only talking about OS X then you are correct (unless you count the trial version of Entourage that ships with most new Macs).

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Hum... Mail became very bloated in my opinion... but anyways, I still can't wait and this is subject to change, like anything else in Leopard.

I disagree. As of now it's just something that's there. It's not a main feature, safari doesn't open the RSS feeds in it, if you want it... it's there. If not it's not going to annoy you and you'll have to turn on the debug menu and turn off rss support, etc.

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I think RSS fits just fine in a browser like Safari. Most sites use RSS to display a simplified version of the website anyway.

RSS isn't about simplified versions of websites: we have CSS and XHTML/XSLT for that. RSS it's about receiving notifications about changes to subscribed content.

RSS is useful to find out when a blog has been updated, but it is just as useful to find out when somebody has placed an order though a store kiosk, to find out when somebody has scored in a game you're interested in, or to get notified when your packages get delivered. Often this information is avialable on a website, but there's no reason that it has to be. RSS contains the important information ("Something changed, this is what it was") - shoe horning that into web interface just builds new "portals" - what we need is clever interfaces that alert us to changes in an appropriate fashion: change icons of files in xcode, update a dashboard score widget, display a bezel notification, etc, have a summary appear in safari, etc.

Website updates are the common use, but they are by no means the only or even the best place for RSS. I think Apple and Microsoft agree somewhat with me given the importance their placing on RSS frameworks in their OSs.

Well, there is Forte' Agent, which goes back to the Windows 3.1 days, and although primarily a newsreader, it also had a decent e-mail client built in from the start (at least as long as I can remember).

I go back to Tin 1.0 (circa 1990) as the first real client I used. <reminisce> I've used some older clients (in a quest to find something better) - but that wasn't until later on. I was there for the september that never ended, league of net.heros, and Cindy's torment but not the great renaming. </reminisce> Even then, my history on usenet spans a very short portion of it's existence.

Actually, Apple did ship Outlook Express and Netscape with OS 8 and OS 9, but if you are only talking about OS X then you are correct (unless you count the trial version of Entourage that ships with most new Macs).

I wasn't talking exclusively about OS X so thanks for the correction.

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That's nice and for me RSS works fine in Safari.

To divinatum: I was wondering do you use Mac OS X Leopard as your main system?

Edited by Neowave
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I was there for the september that never ended

You do go back about 6 years before me on Usenet (didn't get access until I got out of the Navy in 1996). Fortunately, The September That Never Ended finally has pretty much ended since AOL got rid of newsgroup access early last year.

http://www.betanews.com/article/AOL_Pulls_...vice/1106664611

The AOL newsgroup shutdown comes almost exactly eleven years after the service first unleashed its members on the Usenet. In early 1994, seasoned newsgroup participants complained of the sudden influx of AOL newbies, who appeared to know little of Usenet etiquette. One dismayed user likened AOL members to drunk drivers on the Information Super Highway.

Others compared the stream of AOL users to freshmen arriving at college in autumn, and described the resulting decline of newsgroup discourse as the Eternal September. Perhaps not coincidentally, the first Usenet spam -- known as the Green Card Lottery spam -- appeared right around the same time.

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The September That Never Ended finally has pretty much ended since AOL got rid of newsgroup access early last year.

AOL pulled the plug, but the ignorant jerks remain.

As far as I'm concerned september won't end until someone brings us back to the good old days when people read the FAQ and group charter and long before usenet spam. Maybe we'll get a nuclear (noo-que-lar?) war and we'll get set 20 years back. I can't wait to get back to arguing about important things like CP/M hacks and how amazing the CBM 1541 is.

I think it's best to let this branch die here - we're kinda of off topic.

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I think it's best to let this branch die here - we're kinda of off topic.

:wilted_rose:

And so it dies. Just goes to show what happens when two of the "old farts" here get to rambling on.

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That's nice and for me RSS works fine in Safari.

To divinatum: I was wondering do you use Mac OS X Leopard as your main system?

Yes, I have Tiger on here though. I'm finding mysel on Leopard 90% of the time however.

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So far all that won't run is Tomato Torrent. It starts but it won't download anything. Everything I have open on a daily basis is as stable as Tiger.... Here is what I run every day

-iChat

-Mail.app

-Safari

-Colloquy

-AdiumX

Apps I've tried & ran fine

-Vienna

-Delicious Library

-Apple Remote Desktop

-skEdit

-SubEthaEdit

-TubeSock

-UT2004

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Thanks for the info/screenshots.

So you still can't quickly see where a particular file is or open the parent folder from spotlilght (like you can with Finder find).

Oh well :rolleyes:

Yeah this is crazy for a "searching" program. I've simply just disabled the spotlight menu extra and just always use the finder's search field.

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I don't understand. Is this not what you two are discussing?

There's also the tool tip that appears if you hover over an item in the spotlight menu that displays the path.

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You're not able to do that directly from the Spotlight Menu. That's what they're discussing (at least that's what I asume). Otherwise it wouldn't make much sense, I agree.

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I don't understand. Is this not what you two are discussing?

There's also the tool tip that appears if you hover over an item in the spotlight menu that displays the path.

No, this is very poor compared to Finder Find :no:

With that you can click once on the file & it will immediately show you the path to the file. Much better than the inbuilt spotlight version where you have to hover over the file to see the path (then you can't actually access the file or parent folder this way) Or right clicking to reveal the actual file in Finder, then you still have to find out where the file is located :pinch:

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Hitting the "i" will show you the path too but it is a bit weird it's not clickable. Seems like a small thing to implement and it will create more consistency.

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Thx for all the updates :)

Any chance someone could post some more screenies about ichat (multi-login) and all the new stuff in it? I already saw the movie some pages ago! Can u really connect to msn/yahoo yet? Does it support a single contact list for multiple protocols?

Thx in advance :yes:

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Well, you can get iChat to connect to MSN/Yahoo/$IM_SERVICE, by using Jabber and Transports, but that's kinda geeky (get more geek points if that's what your looking for), it has some issues (depending on the transport version) and at that point your not really using MSN, your just shuffling the messages between two networks.

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That's already possible with iChat 3 today. From what I know Live support via Jabber hasn't fundamentally changed on Mac OS X Leopard (that's what this thread is about right?). So you still can't "natively" use Microsoft's Live network.

Log on to multiple .Mac, AOL, IM, and Jabber accounts simultaneously.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/ichat.html

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I have had a little play with Leopard on my Intel based iMac and there are two applications that dont work that cause me not to use Leopard at this time and they are:

Elgato EyeTV

Parallels (Beta) - the current release that is not in beta does work however.

Leopard didnt wow me but i was impressed with the overall speed of the system and spotlight seemed a lot faster. I look forward to seeing how Leopard evolves over the coming months.

Safari was an improvement in the sense that searching was much better and javascript support was improved but annoying because i didnt see the option to 'always show tab bar'. It is annoying because when you add a tab the window stretches and when you close all the tabs it shrinks again - i want it always the same size!

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I agree that they should unify things more, even if I don't actually hate the brushed metal interface, but I think there's some hype in this "new revolutionnary" interface that apple is going to do in Leopard. I'm really not sure how they could make Tiger better except if they add resolution independency, but it's not going to change the layout really... Vista is much better than XP, but X is much better than Vista, and it'd be hard to update something so perfectly done... what do you guys expect from them ?

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