WWDC '08

By osirisX
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Grand Master

Hurmoth

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Steve is well known to get caught up when doing his Keynotes and start going so far off script it gives his engineers heart attacks. ;)

I know I just got an email about the entire 'Clone' market possibilities and how it would hurt Apple from the Hardware Company aspect so I think that it is still seen that Apple is a Hardware company. I'll look around for that quote, have a teleconference meeting here in a few minutes so...

I can certainly understand that. One thing that I've always admired Jobs for is his passion for his company's products. So in the heat of the moment, going off script is something he just naturally does.

Okay I agree with Cara here but Matt's point isn't that apple is 50% hardware and 50% hardware; it's definitely focused on hardware. But Matt, what Cara is saying is that that primary focus defines the company as a hardware producer. Would you say Nokia and Motorola are also software companies? Although they write (and commission to write) most of the software seen on many of their mobile phones, they are still, at heart, hardware companies. I think Apple is similar: a hardware company that ALSO produces software.

I don't think you can compare Nokia/Motorola and Apple. Apple has software that you can go out to a store and purchase. You can go out and buy Nokia or Motorola software. In fact, outside of the software on their devices, do they make anything else software-wise?

Apple makes iTunes for Windows, Nokia doesn't make software that you can download for a Motorola phone do they? Or RIM doesn't make software for a Nokia phone. These are apples and oranges.

As for Apple though, I can understand your point simply because you can't really go out of buy Mac OS X for a PC that you build.

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Grand Master

Mathachew Veteran

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Okay I agree with Cara here but Matt's point isn't that apple is 50% hardware and 50% hardware; it's definitely focused on hardware. But Matt, what Cara is saying is that that primary focus defines the company as a hardware producer. Would you say Nokia and Motorola are also software companies? Although they write (and commission to write) most of the software seen on many of their mobile phones, they are still, at heart, hardware companies. I think Apple is similar: a hardware company that ALSO produces software.

I completely understand what Cara was saying. In the case of Nokie or Motorola, it's limited software so that their products function, but they're nothing to the scale of what Apple produces for their OS. Apple couldn't survive without either, unless drastic steps are taken. They have had a better chance of surviving as only a hardware company because their systems now support Windows; rewind to before they moved to Intel chips, and that wasn't the case.

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Grand Master

Hurmoth

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I completely understand what Cara was saying. In the case of Nokie or Motorola, it's limited software so that their products function, but they're nothing to the scale of what Apple produces for their OS. Apple couldn't survive without either, unless drastic steps are taken. They have had a better chance of surviving as only a hardware company because their systems now support Windows; rewind to before they moved to Intel chips, and that wasn't the case.

I disagree, not with the way they charge. They'd have to drastically reduce the cost of their systems to stay competitive with Dell if they stopped making OS X and started selling Windows or Linux on their system.

They would have a much better chance of being a software company that licensed their OS to Dell for use on their systems. I'm sure a ton of people who can't afford a Mac would purchase a copy of Mac OS X for their own personal system in a heart beat. I know I would.

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Grand Master

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I disagree, not with the way they charge. They'd have to drastically reduce the cost of their systems to stay competitive with Dell if they stopped making OS X and started selling Windows or Linux on their system.

They would have a much better chance of being a software company that licensed their OS to Dell for use on their systems. I'm sure a ton of people who can't afford a Mac would purchase a copy of Mac OS X for their own personal system in a heart beat. I know I would.

My point on their survival due to support for Windows, or lack thereof, didn't correlate with the cost. I agree that the cost would have to come down a lot, but because their system is capable of running Windows, the chances are improved greatly if you ask me. People are willing to spend more money on premium hardware, but having their own OS to run on it definitely helps. Reduced hardware prices or opening OSX would make their survivability without one of the two far greater, but I don't see them going that route, nor do they have a reason to.

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Grand Master

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As long as their #'s keep going up like they have been since they introduced the Intel version, it isn't likely that they'll open either up. Personally, I love my iMac and would trade it for any Windows computer in the world.

You mean wouldn't, right? :p

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Grand Master

Quillz

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As long as their #'s keep going up like they have been since they introduced the Intel version, it isn't likely that they'll open either up. Personally, I love my iMac and would trade it for any Windows computer in the world.

An iMac is a Windows computer... *runs and hides*

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Grand Master

Hurmoth

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Steve Jobs to Give Keynote at WWDC on June 9th

Fortune's Apple 2.0 blog received confirmation from Apple's public relations that Steve Jobs would be delivering the keynote speech at Apple's Wordwide Developer's Conference on Monday, June 9th.

Although no official announcement has been made, Apple public relations confirmed to Fortune that Steve Jobs will deliver a keynote address on June 9, the first day of the 2008 World Wide Developers conference.

Of course, it's no surprise that Steve Jobs will be delivering the keynote speech at WWDC, but it had not been formally announced or scheduled. Apple, of course, is widely expected to deliver the next version of the iPhone at WWDC.

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Grand Master

Quillz

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Depends on which one we're talking about. I have a G5 as well as the Intel one :p

And they can't run Windows without Boot Camp ;)

But the point is they can still run Windows, thus a "Windows computer" is basically any generic x86 platform out there, whether it's from Apple or Dell.

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dyn

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Not trying to convince you of anything, simply stating a fact. :)

Apple's software team is a supporting aspect of the Apple Hardware Team.

I'll say it one more time then I'm done attempting to explain it here, the fact is Apple is a Hardware Company with a great Software Product, not a Hardware/Software company.

Just to support it, a quick Google Revealed the 2006 PC Magazine Company Awards...

As Steve Jobs said: Apple is a software company. However they do make their own hardware. Steve Jobs had this nice quote from somebody (it was fullscreen in one of his keynotes) stating something like that if a company wants to make really good software it has to make it's own hardware as well.

Edited by dyn
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Experienced

Aperture

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As Steve Jobs said: Apple is a software company. However they do make their own hardware. Steve Jobs had this nice quote from somebody (it was fullscreen in one of his keynotes) stating something like that if a company wants to make really good software it has to make it's own hardware as well.

Yeah I'd trust more what came from the horses mouth than a low-level Apple employee who spends a majority of her time posting on Neowin.

That said, I'm on a personal assumption that Apple could not produce one without the other, so no matter what they consider themselves as, I consider them as a business minded innovations company who deal with both hardware and software to produce the best available products on the market today.

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Grand Master

Cara Veteran

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Yeah I'd trust more what came from the horses mouth than a low-level Apple employee who spends a majority of her time posting on Neowin.

That said, I'm on a personal assumption that Apple could not produce one without the other, so no matter what they consider themselves as, I consider them as a business minded innovations company who deal with both hardware and software to produce the best available products on the market today.

Wow, personal dig, nice. Made me laugh pretty hard though. If you only knew. ;) Stick to what you know, which isn't me, so you can avoid making future assumptions that will simply make you look foolish. :)

Anyhow, you are correct (for the first time this post) in saying Apple couldn't sustain it's business on one or the other when it comes to Hardware / Software. Both elements come together to produce the technology and innovation that you all come to expect from Apple.

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dyn

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Yeah I'd trust more what came from the horses mouth than a low-level Apple employee who spends a majority of her time posting on Neowin.

Someone people still seem to think that everybody on the internet speaks the truth... There is no way to check if what you say is true. However...Steve Job gave this keynote which had the phrase I'm referring to in size 48 or even bigger fullscreen on the screen. That is something you and everyone else is able to check. I'd rather believe something I can actually verify than something someone types on the net which I can't or can hardly verify, especially when they claim they are an employee from company X, because mostly that is false.

It is also known that low level employees know hardly anything about what the company is doing and where it's going. That is on an entirely different level in management (more strategic, maybe even tactical; low level employees are far below those levels).

That said, I'm on a personal assumption that Apple could not produce one without the other, so no matter what they consider themselves as, I consider them as a business minded innovations company who deal with both hardware and software to produce the best available products on the market today.

I also couldn't care less but it's what Steve Jobs showed in one of his keynotes so if the big boss says they are a software company than that's probably true. I just buy their products if I think it's worth buying.

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Aperture

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Someone people still seem to think that everybody on the internet speaks the truth... There is no way to check if what you say is true. However...Steve Job gave this keynote which had the phrase I'm referring to in size 48 or even bigger fullscreen on the screen. That is something you and everyone else is able to check. I'd rather believe something I can actually verify than something someone types on the net which I can't or can hardly verify, especially when they claim they are an employee from company X, because mostly that is false.

It is also known that low level employees know hardly anything about what the company is doing and where it's going. That is on an entirely different level in management (more strategic, maybe even tactical; low level employees are far below those levels).

I also couldn't care less but it's what Steve Jobs showed in one of his keynotes so if the big boss says they are a software company than that's probably true. I just buy their products if I think it's worth buying.

Yeah that's the exact stance I have on the subject, whether someone gets hairy fairy on me or not.

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Grand Master

Cara Veteran

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Well, annoying personal attacks not withstanding I did want to post my findings on the Hardware / Software question.

It appears I was wrong, I sent a letter to the man himself (Which doubt if you want but here it is) and was informed that Apple is indeed either a Software or Technology company, depending on how you look at it.

Here is the chain, enjoy it if you'd like, those in tin-foil hats can insult it if they'd like, but I'd ask you please do it in private to me as not to take the thread further off-topic.

Oh, just for the record I got this on Tuesday I just hadn't thought about posting it until I was cleaning out my email tonight. Headers, email, and phone numbers, and compromising data removed for privacy of course.

There is no simple answer to this anymore. Previously, Apple was a hardware company but we have grown far beyond that simple label now. In the keynote you asked about I did say Apple was a software company but I think that was not a very fair statement anymore. I view Apple as a technology company now so you can say that we are both or neither of those previous things.

Thanks for the good question, it gave me something to think about.

Steve

On May 12, 2008, at 5:25 PM, XXXX wrote:

Steve,

I know you're a very busy person so I had to think long and hard about sending this to you but I have a burning curiosity that needs to be taken care of! If you have free time at some point to respond, that would be great, if not I understand as well. If it is easier on you, you can also call me at XXXXX or XXX-XXX-XXXX, the second is my iPhone so I have it at all times.

Recently I was discussing Apple with some people I know and there was a bit of a debate on how Apple should be classified, Software or Hardware Company. I said that Apple is a Hardware Company as it's been drilled into our heads over the years, however was countered with one of your keynotes in which you said Apple was a Software Company. When I view Apple I see our software products, namely Mac OS, however you can't help but notice the excess of hardware that makes up our product lineup. The number of hardware products and configurations offered seem to outweigh the software applications we sell.

Can you put this debate to a close for me, and if you say hardware company you'll win me a bet so... ;)

Thanks for your time!

XXXX

Sr. Project Manager, Design & Deployment

XXX.XXX.XXXX Phone / XXX.XXX.XXXX Fax / XXX.XXX.XXXX iPhone

I hate being wrong. heh.

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Grand Master

Mathachew Veteran

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HA! I KNEW IT!!!11

Ok, I'm done gloating ;) I think saying they're a Technology company better suits them more than saying Hardware, Software and Fashion company :p Case closed.

On a side note, perhaps this should be listed on digg? Nahh, I wouldn't want Neowin to crash again :shiftyninja:

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Experienced

thefarewellnote

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Well, annoying personal attacks not withstanding I did want to post my findings on the Hardware / Software question.

It appears I was wrong, I sent a letter to the man himself (Which doubt if you want but here it is) and was informed that Apple is indeed either a Software or Technology company, depending on how you look at it.

Here is the chain, enjoy it if you'd like, those in tin-foil hats can insult it if they'd like, but I'd ask you please do it in private to me as not to take the thread further off-topic.

Oh, just for the record I got this on Tuesday I just hadn't thought about posting it until I was cleaning out my email tonight. Headers, email, and phone numbers, and compromising data removed for privacy of course.

I hate being wrong. heh.

Props to Steve for responding though. The man constantly seems to impress me.

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