religion? fake? real?

[TheElite]

By the way, there is no way I can answer that question for you; just as YOU cannot answer that question for ME.  There is no way I am going to let someone else define the reason that I exist, and what I should live for.

You might not be able to prove WHY to me, but I can prove to you. but thats another story.

Yeah and, you answered yourself, "There is no way I am going to let someone else define the reason that I exist, and what I should live for." :happy:

[DsnBehind]

If religion isn't real, then what the heck is our purpose in life? The only logical thing to do would be to kill yourself!

Except for religion, you have nothing to live for?

The point is, Christianity ISN'T about rules.

And my monitor doesn't use electricity.

[SkolVikings]

I know this is a terrible example I'm about to give, and while I'm writing this I think of some other stuff to say on this topic: Think about a newborn baby. They have no beliefs. They have no ability to communicate intelligently, and have virtually no control of their own actions beyond inherent abilities that are a product of millenia of evolution. The beliefs a person eventually attains must be instilled into them. I have met no one, nor heard of anyone, that has lived in a vacuum since birth, come out on their own free will and with no contact with other people declaired "God is real! Jesus Christ is our savior!". The person would have no idea Jesus existed (assuming Christianity is not real, and God does not "live inside us all").

Yes, that is a terrible analogy. Under the same thought process, the baby would grow up with no knowledge of the arts, or philosophy, or tradition, or manners, etc.

I don't know anyone who lived in a vacuum since birth and declared God is real either, since I don't know anyone who has grown up in a vacuum. :)

Clearly much of our knowledge is passed down from others, in many areas besides religion. Clearly much of our belief of what is and isn't true is based on the convincing of others. I've personally never walked on the moon, so I take Neil Armstrong's word for it. I've never collided particles in a supercolider either, so I'll take the scientific community's word on their results. Etc.

[CrimsonBlur]

Yes, that is a terrible analogy. Under the same thought process, the baby would grow up with no knowledge of the arts, or philosophy, or tradition, or manners, etc.

I don't know anyone who lived in a vacuum since birth and declared God is real either, since I don't know anyone who has grown up in a vacuum.  :)

Clearly much of our knowledge is passed down from others, in many areas besides religion. Clearly much of our belief of what is and isn't true is based on the convincing of others. I've personally never walked on the moon, so I take Neil Armstrong's word for it. I've never collided particles in a supercolider either, so I'll take the scientific community's word on their results. Etc.

Well, it is NOT an analogy, for one thing. It is not the best example ever, but it still works. What you have said makes no difference. Not knowing about art, philosophy, tradition or manners does not condemn you to hell. However, supposedly, not knowing about God and accepting him in your life, DOES. The reason I used that example, was because later I talk about not ever knowing or hearing about anyone that has lived a normal life WITH a normal education that has made a decision about religion because God himself spoke to them, or however you want to see it. So assuming that, I can't imagine the EXTREME, which was my vacuum example. And if you DID live in a vacuum, how is that YOUR fault? And you would then be condemned to hell because you had no access to the Bible? That was the point I was trying to make. Knowledge about God should not NEED to be passed down through other HUMANS, that defeats the entire supposed PURPOSE of believing in God. If the entire purpose of your life is to serve God, then why would you need other people to tell you he exists? And to tell you that Jesus died for our sins? That is what I am saying makes no sense at all.

[TheElite]

And you would then be condemned to hell because you had no access to the Bible?

no, people who have not heard about God, Islam, whatever, they will still go to heaven.

[tool]

yeah but dont you think that they are pacifists or dont fight holy wars, etc... because they dont have anything to fight for?

How about tibet?

The Monks allowed themselves to be killed rather than fight (if they couldn't flee like the Dali Llama bloke). Still they try to resolve it peacefully.

Now lets look at two other religions...Jews and Muslims - hey, down their! In Asia - look, the whole Israel Palestine issue is fuelled by terretory fuelled by religion. Nice work religion!

Quran also says do not ..I repeat .. DO NOT SWEAR.?:pinch::

Thats a damn shame - I'm gonna go burn in hell cos I didn't listen to a book.

:ss

Swearing don't even hurt anyone, and if it does, I apologise so they feel better than before.

And don't claim to be hurt by swearwords - Allah is Transcendant and Imminant - he knows what you really feel inside your heart.

On a different note: SkolVikings, so why do you want bush re-elected? Got something against america?

Edited February 20, 2004 by tool

[shrike]

Did anybody ever think that maybe Jesus just figured a lot of medical things out for himself, by keeping an open mind, and just used his skills for his own enjoyment? Maybe he was a big capatalist b.astard, set on making everybody think that they couldn't survive without him.

Sound familiar? (used because this is in Area 51... everything sounds familiar, because everybody is paranoid about everything.)

I don't really know, and I really don't care. But it's all interesting all the same.

[tool]

Hey, and he got people drunk - turning their healthy water into (probably highly alchoholic) wine.

I bet there were way over ten people DUI on camels that night, possible crushing innocents.

PS Has anyone heard of the idea that God only exists while people believe in it?

[ForkliftDude]

And don't claim to be hurt by swearwords - Allah is Transcendant and Imminant - he knows what you really feel inside your heart.

haha, reminds me of that child saying around here, i think the most fitting translation would be:

"allah's might, allah's nifty, allah's got a penis of three meter fifty!"

LOL!

[tool]

Sweet! :D

I learned that Transcendant stuff from our RE class. Our text books make Muhammad look like a real nice guy, not just another warlord/cult bloke!

[Rell]

If religion isn't real, then what the heck is our purpose in life? The only logical thing to do would be to kill yourself!

Friends, Christianity isn't about following rules, it is about a relashonship. Look at the evidence, nearly all scholare's belive that there was once a man named Jesus that at the very least, he did good and miraculas things. - This is an increadable topic that I don't have time at the moment to pursue further ( I'll try to get this up later tonight).

The point is, Christianity ISN'T about rules.

Sure a church would take tithe, but all that money goes back into the church and back to the people.

Please, feel free to talk to me on msn or I will also check back here every so often.

Only if more people would listen to what you were saying and not just be annoyed by it... :happy:

[romant]

as my teacher said

if there was no purpose in life we would have been animals.

the reasons why we are not animals is that we were given something that they dont have ie brain to use it to make the world a better place.

thats why i think religion makes sense

[jackwanders]

If religion isn't real, then what the heck is our purpose in life? The only logical thing to do would be to kill yourself!

Friends, Christianity isn't about following rules, it is about a relashonship. Look at the evidence, nearly all scholare's belive that there was once a man named Jesus that at the very least, he did good and miraculas things. - This is an increadable topic that I don't have time at the moment to pursue further ( I'll try to get this up later tonight).

The point is, Christianity ISN'T about rules.

Sure a church would take tithe, but all that money goes back into the church and back to the people.

Please, feel free to talk to me on msn or I will also check back here every so often.

what about living for self-fulfillment?

what about living because it's what I like to do?

what about living for happiness?

is the only reason you get out of bed each day to make some higher power happy?

Yes, religion gives many people purpose. But don't for a second state that without religion life has no purpose. That's absurd.

Ok, next paragraph.

You say that christianity is about relationship, not following rules. That's true. Catholicism is about following rules :D. Unfortunately, you failed to even remotely back up your statement. Because Jesus existed, that means christianity is about a relationship? Your logic goes nowhere.

All the money goes back to the people? :no:

[xxdesmus]

oh dear god (no pun intended ;) )....what a can of worms

anyways, i think religion is simply made up in order to control people, all religion, everywhere.

just my opinion :blink:

[tool]

If religion isn't real, then what the heck is our purpose in life? The only logical thing to do would be to kill yourself!

Friends, Christianity isn't about following rules, it is about a relashonship. Look at the evidence, nearly all scholare's belive that there was once a man named Jesus that at the very least, he did good and miraculas things. - This is an increadable topic that I don't have time at the moment to pursue further ( I'll try to get this up later tonight).

The point is, Christianity ISN'T about rules.

Sure a church would take tithe, but all that money goes back into the church and back to the people.

Please, feel free to talk to me on msn or I will also check back here every so often.

Bullsh*t!!!

Firstly, I have no purpose (except to become 133337 :p). When can people come to terms with the fact that they are just a little person on a little planet in a big universe. You have no purpose except to continue the human race (by making babies). Its a sickening thought, but your religion is merely a way to come to terms with it. Face up to it like a man.

Secondly, the whole point of the relationship stuff, you start off by calling me friend. DO NOT CALL ME "FRIEND"!!! If you wanna be my friend you gotta show me why, at the moment i think your stupid and I dont WANT to be your friend. Call me an ######, but I am proving a point - the Church assumes that you will be all happy together...is it really just a way of letting rejects and retards get some sort of "friends" and sympathy???

The point is, Christianity ISN'T about rules.

Actually, you start by saying "The point is". This is saying that your point is somehow relevant to the preceding text. Which it isn't. Christianity is about rules - its based around the ten commandment...which are, yup, rules!

And please, stop generalising about "Christianity" I ain't a "Christian" and even I know that there are hundreds of different divisions - The quakers are pretty free thinking, where as the Catholics have decided to add hundreds of other bullsh*t rules on to op the 10 Commandments!

Next, to make your statement sound even more naive, you seem to think that the tithe goes back to the people. Only in some churches. In our friends the Catholics, (The richest church and one of the richest organisations in the world), your donation that you think will help poor people just goes towards giving the pope more Bling! (for those of you unfamiliar with the term Bling! it means like gold necklaces and crowns and gold pope hats and sh*t).

I am thinking about adding you on MSN and furthering this discussion. I will add "Friend" at the beginning of every sentence. No, you calling me "Friend" has actually made ME feel UNCOMFORTABLE. Way to go bible basher.

Oh, and finally, I would like to point out that the very title of this discussion is flawed. There is no definition of "real" in religion, yes, it is "real" in the fact that it exists and many people follow it, but it could also be not "real" in the fact that its a scam.

[Qarth]

Thread is...

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:pinch:

[tool]

Si A bloody fun thread tho! Learned loads.

Anyway.....

[TheDuke]

Hahaa....religion is always a touchy subject, thats what priests always say, muahaha ohhh that was evil of me...

Nah but seriously, I dont belive in going to church to pray to God...when I can do it anywhere I want, doesnt make sense that one man/women start being up on a higher platform preaching, never really thought it made any sense at all.

[akaladis Veteran]

well - many things in religion either dont make sense, or science has proved otherwise... just think of this: each time when science proves religion wrong, doesnt it make you think "hey, religion got that wrong, why would the rest of it be true?"

lol... or am i too tired for this thread atm? 'anyway...

[tool]

On another note, i would just like to say (in possible contradiction to the idea of many of my threads) that I know many priests etc who are actually very nice people and just be priestish because they think its the best that they can do!

Its the Smarmy ones that I hate heres a true conversation:

My Stepdad: Oh jesus christ

Religious guy: Are you talking about my friend??

[sanctified Veteran]

Well, life, with or without religion, is killing us anyway :happy:

To the point.

Friends, Christianity isn't about following rules, it is about a relashonship.

The modern state of christianity is about following rules.

Ok, Now:

Religion cant be fake since it follows the same principle as the atheistic humanisms, seek and find a truth, parting from this point, we can say religions are somehow "humanisms beyond humans" I find this quite fascinating, we humans, in general, are feble in mind, so thats why whe need supports in our ideals (god, yourself, science) IMO the most effective religion support must be agnosticism, because it lets you interpret your own religion (and hence, phylosophy, humanism, etc) Organized religions are flawed in theory since they try to puth a generalization (an universal truth) to all their believers, and with this, limitations, mutilating the own humanity in the human, I agree that a lot of those believers follow that religion with a strong faith and good intentions, but you all must agree that most of them dont really know the really meaning of their own religion, yes, they can say quick and easy words like "love" "salvation" and a long etc, but since they were raised by their parents in that religion they dont have a comparation point, right?

So, in review, religon is fake? no, because is, in the end, it exist in all of you, theist or atheist, because is a phylosophy, whenever whe choose to believe or not, personally I have become agnostic since some time to now (raised catholic, then satanist (my angst and antiosical phase, but still I can tell you, is not as evil as some of you thing), then atheist (for years), then agnostic)

[TheElite]

well - many things in religion either dont make sense, or science has proved otherwise... just think of this: each time when science proves religion wrong, doesnt it make you think "hey, religion got that wrong, why would the rest of it be true?"

lol... or am i too tired for this thread atm? 'anyway...

yeah, hahaha. :laugh:

that is why the quran has got stuff which scientists are discoering now. they even take guidance from it. :yes:

[El Bourricot]

ok i usually avoid religion threads

but this one..

That other day in church (because english schools force their students to go to church - school service whatever - ah france i miss you), i looked around and thought... but how is it possible that men built so much for something which doesn't exist? I just can't bring myself to think that any kind of God exists, but I still respect other people's beliefs, even if often they don't respect my lack of belief (and why should they.)

998!!! - 2 more posts...

[RufioPan]

Personally I believe in religion and consider myself to be a religious individual. I find it remarkable that many of those who don't believe in religion not only disbelieve, but vehemently oppose religion or believe that religion/religious people are ignorant! I can't really substantiate that statement with evidence, but it's an interesting observation that I've made in online forums, that's all.

Anyways, I firmly believe in faith and religion, and not only that, but I disagree with anyone who claims that only their religion is from God. The reason that all religions have so much in common is because they obviously were delivered by the same God. Similarly, I don't think there can be any disagreement between a true religion and science.

That said, many people begin to comment against Christianity or some other faith to prove the superiority of science or "humanism". Hehe... it's funny how every religion vs. non-religion discussion turns into Christianity vs. atheism :) I do believe Christianity is a divine religion, but I can only defend Islam since it's the only religion I know well enough (although I do study other religions).

If one truly thinks they are a rationalist I invite them to read Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and Truth.

I think you'd find it proves remarkably well the rational nature of religion and the correlation between religion and nature/science.

(Edited for grammer mistakes)

Edited February 20, 2004 by RufioPan

[RufioPan]

Religion = social control.

'nuff said. :sleep:

Views like this are always interesting. Aren't governments and families a form of social control? For that matter, isn't work, school, or any social structure a form of social control? Does that mean that to be truly free we have to shed all social structure, abolish all organizations and survive solely on the arrogant belief that we have it all figured out? :p