religion? fake? real?

[sanctified Veteran]

Views like this are always interesting. Aren't governments and families a form of social control? For that matter, isn't work, school, or any social structure a form of social control? Does that mean that to be truly free we have to shed all social structure, abolish all organizations and survive solely on the arrogant belief that we have it all figured out? :p

that reminds me of Carl Marx :p

[RufioPan]

,Feb 20 2004, 16:21] that reminds me of Carl Marx :p

Read this. :) Very interesting!

[Chad]

yeah, hahaha. :laugh:

that is why the quran has got stuff which scientists are discoering now. they even take guidance from it. :yes:

Riiiight. Typical zanwar response. Care to prove it? And none of these incredibly pro-islamic sites. How about some place reputible this time...hmmm?

The modern state of christianity is about following rules.

Somone who has no idea about the current state of the church isn't qualified to say such things. Christianity ISN'T based on the 10 commandments, as others have said. It's never been about rules. The foundation of Christianity is a relationship with Jesus. Always has been that way, always will.

[Athlon7]

Religion comes from our ritualistic nature. Ritualism is evidenced even amongst the higher apes. Every religion thinks that it alone has the answer. Thus, religion is inherently flawed. It can bring meaning to life, but it can also bring blindness and idiocy. When one is educated in the anthropological origins of religion, and one begins to deconstruct say, the social setting that led to Christianity, one can see that it is nothing more than a somewhat abberant creation of mankind. Spirituality is fine, religion is blindness. The key to happiness is not in books or a shaman/priest's teachings, rather is to seek meaning in knowledge and understanding of everything.

Edited February 21, 2004 by Athlon7

[RufioPan]

Religion comes from our ritualistic nature. Ritualism is evidenced even amongst the higher apes. Every religion thinks that it alone has the answer. Thus, religion is inherently flawed. It can bring meaning to life, but it can also bring blindness and idiocy. When one is educated in the anthropological origins of religion, and one begins to deconstruct say, the social setting that led to Christianity, one can see that it is nothing more than a somewhat abberant creation of mankind. Spirituality is fine, religion is blindness. The key to happiness is not in books or a shaman/priest's teachings, rather is to seek meaning in knowledge and understanding of everything.

Those are some interesting thoughts you have there... although your assumptions are unfounded. First of all you failed to acknowledge the purpose of ritualism and why certain rituals exist. Ritual is different than habit, mind you. Secondly, you also incorrectly assumed that every religion "thinks that it alone has the answer". That is not true of Islam, although it does claim to be the most recently revealed and most direct path to God.

I'm also curious as to what that social setting was that led to Christianity? And I'd also like to see you justify religion as an "abberant creation" of mankind (and I'd like to see you do it in the context of Islam, actually). Contrary to your statement, religion has been quite the norm throughout the history of modern man (modern in the genetic sense).

I will however agree with you, that knowledge and understanding are absolutely essential to mankind's existance. In all my extra-curricular study, the more knowledge and understanding I gained, the stronger my faith in God has become, because it seems every bit of truth in this world furthur validates the existance of God and His very real presence.

[RufioPan]

Riiiight.  Typical zanwar response.  Care to prove it?  And none of these incredibly pro-islamic sites.  How about some place reputible this time...hmmm?

More logical than us proving to you that the Quran is scientifically accurate (since pro-Islamic sites featuring quotes from the Quran as they relate to modern science isn't enough for you), how about you prove that the Quran is scientifically inaccurate? :)

I'd love to see you do that! I mean, I've even had a non-Muslim physics teacher tell the class how the Quran describes nuclear detonation. Not just that, but the Quran covers biology, physics, geology, etc... especially in physics, you'll find it interesting that the Quranic explanation for the creation of the universe is pretty much the Big Bang theory (which I believe is the prevailing theory regarding the creation of the universe).

Anyways, it'd be interesting to hear your comments on this! :)

Edited February 21, 2004 by RufioPan

[sanctified Veteran]

Somone who has no idea about the current state of the church isn't qualified to say such things. Christianity ISN'T based on the 10 commandments, as others have said. It's never been about rules. The foundation of Christianity is a relationship with Jesus. Always has been that way, always will.

I agree, thats the end, the goal, but to reach that goal you need the commandments, right? correct me if Im wrong please but the commandments are there to be respected and followed, to talk about the state is not the same to talk about the final goal.

[tool]

More logical than us proving to you that the Quran is scientifically accurate (since pro-Islamic sites featuring quotes from the Quran as they relate to modern science isn't enough for you), how about you prove that the Quran is scientifically inaccurate? :)

I'd love to see you do that! I mean, I've even had a non-Muslim physics teacher tell the class how the Quran describes nuclear detonation. Not just that, but the Quran covers biology, physics, geology, etc... especially in physics, you'll find it interesting that the Quranic explanation for the creation of the universe is pretty much the Big Bang theory (which I believe is the prevailing theory regarding the creation of the universe).

Anyways, it'd be interesting to hear your comments on this! :)

No....YOU have to prove it ACCURATE. Thats how it works.

If I say I am sitting next to a giant toaster, I have to prove to you that I AM. You don't have prove that I am NOT.

I mean, how can the scientific information be accurate if theres no scientific information :)

[TheElite]

More logical than us proving to you that the Quran is scientifically accurate (since pro-Islamic sites featuring quotes from the Quran as they relate to modern science isn't enough for you), how about you prove that the Quran is scientifically inaccurate??:))

I'd love to see you do that!? I mean, I've even had a non-Muslim physics teacher tell the class how the Quran describes nuclear detonation.? Not just that, but the Quran covers biology, physics, geology, etc... especially in physics, you'll find it interesting that the Quranic explanation for the creation of the universe is pretty much the Big Bang theory (which I believe is the prevailing theory regarding the creation of the universe).

Anyways, it'd be interesting to hear your comments on this!:)? :)

nice o;). ;)

yo superfula and tool, look and lea:happy:ppy:

Here embryology is discussed in the Quran 1400 YEARS AGO! And scientists and dr's are finding about max 30 years ago!

Quran and Modern Science Link 1

Link 2

Here they are discussing the Quranic revelations regarding several aspects in science, and the scientist even said that the Quran really "IS A DIVINE REVELATION".

Link 3

[b3njo]

very handy link zanwar... :thumbs:

[TheElite]

no prob ;) :)

[Riz360]

Man i know what people are gonna say when i post this but this is my opinion sumed up in a quote by Karl Marx

"Religion is the opiate of the masses"

Really thats all I think it is,

Its good for nothing but creating divides in the world, its responsible for wars and deaths of innocent people.

[TheElite]

erm, it also brings people together, more than it seperates 'em.

[CrimsonBlur]

erm, it also brings people together, more than it seperates 'em.

I agree that it also brings people together... but MORE than it divides people? I don't think you could find any evidence to actually prove that in the real world.

Think of it this way: how many times has a religion brought people together (in a good way) in huge masses, simultaniously around the world, or at least within an entire country? Or how many times have people of two different religions come together to praise eachother for loving and worshipping God?

Now think of how many massive wars with thousands of casualties (per war) have been faught as a direct result of religious disputes, and think of how many of those wars are still being waged. And think of events like the Holocaust, where Hitler singled out a group based on their religios beliefs and murdered them in the millions, while the German people at the time did virtually nothing to stop him (obviously knowing at some point he had lost his mind and was murdering innocent civilians in massive numbers).

I am not necissarily trying to state that religion is all bad by saying this, I'm just trying to point out the reality of the situation, since many people, especially those adamently defending religion, conveniently forget.

[CrimsonBlur]

erm, it also brings people together, more than it seperates 'em.

I agree that it also brings people together... but MORE than it divides people? I don't think you could find any evidence to actually prove that in the real world.

Think of it this way: how many times has a religion brought people together (in a good way) in huge masses, simultaniously around the world, or at least within an entire country? Or how many times have people of two different religions come together to praise eachother for loving and worshipping God?

Now think of how many massive wars with thousands of casualties (per war) have been faught as a direct result of religious disputes, and think of how many of those wars are still being waged. And think of events like the Holocaust, where Hitler singled out a group based on their religios beliefs and murdered them in the millions, while the German people at the time did virtually nothing to stop him (obviously knowing at some point he had lost his mind and was murdering innocent civilians in massive numbers).

I am not necissarily trying to state that religion is all bad by saying this, I'm just trying to point out the reality of the situation, since many people, especially those adamently defending religion, conveniently forget.

[TheElite]

on religious celebrations, like Christmas, Eid, Passover, Diwali, whatever...

you saying that millions and millions of people don't rejoice?

[tool]

Yup, and then a Muslim/Jewish suicide bomber kills aload of kiddies who just got their presents.

Get my point?

I don't think I am actually getting involved in the part of this argument that is Science vs Religion...If you read my first post I think (think!) I said summat bout the bible being quite accurate. There is no reason why that shouldn't apply to the Quran.

Now, another point - ZAnwar, EXPLAIN STUFF YOURSELF. You might not necessarily be able to explain yourself, and thats all those articles are doing, they are EXPLAINING what your point is. Try and do it yourself, without quotes. I dares ya.

Somone who has no idea about the current state of the church isn't qualified to say such things. Christianity ISN'T based on the 10 commandments, as others have said. It's never been about rules. The foundation of Christianity is a relationship with Jesus. Always has been that way, always will.

Interesting point, but Jewism has the commandments, Christianity was originaly Jewism but with belief that Jesus was a prophet. Yes, I know now that there are a lot of other differences, but I am talking about the beginning.

Therefore, religion is based around the Ten Commandments. Oh yes, and the Deadly sins. We shouldn't forget those now.

very handy link zanwar... :thumbs:

STFU...Contribute to the discussion, don't just cheerlead biatch.

Edited February 22, 2004 by tool

[b3njo]

STFU...Contribute to the discussion, don't just cheerlead biatch.

:blink:

well, that article explains a lot of questions regarding that wether religion (in the case of ZAnwar, he is making a point that Islam is real) is real or fake.

[tool]

Admit, it was a waste of a post. He gets gratitude in the way we can use his post to argue against him.

Oh yeah, I don't like to descriminate, but the one thing that really annoys me with Muslims, but whereas most religions can take and accept that they are not alone, and that others beliefs count too (well maybe not Jews), but they actively despise other religions and somehow think that their religion is "the one". No human or body of humans have the right to claim that.

[icie]

Christianity also teaches that the only way to get into Heaven is through Jesus, and that all the other ways are invalid. However, we don't actively rub it in your faces as much, that's all. :)

[shermang]

Admit, it was a waste of a post. He gets gratitude in the way we can use his post to argue against him.

Oh yeah, I don't like to descriminate, but the one thing that really annoys me with Muslims, but whereas most religions can take and accept that they are not alone, and that others beliefs count too (well maybe not Jews), but they actively despise other religions and somehow think that their religion is "the one". No human or body of humans have the right to claim that.

I take off my wizard robe and wizard cap.

[JohnMarsten]

Ah yes bashing religion and its followers :| ... to be honest if it wasn't for religion you'd have a lot of people out their not caring about humanity and doing good .. so whether you believe it or not there are some benefits from it ... anyways I always found this quote interesting...

"Religion...is the opium of the people" - Karl Marx

What i also find interesting today is that if any of the religions that exist today where 'invented' today they would be considered cults lol

I also watched that movie Rabbit-Proof Fence and it's disguisting to see what people had to suffer through having their beliefs bashed and taking away because of some other ethnocentric majority.

Personally I don't care what religion someone practices, as long as they don't try to push it i.e. Jovanh's (however you spell it) Witness .. and that it helps them be better people.

[TheElite]

Admit, it was a waste of a post. He gets gratitude in the way we can use his post to argue against him.

Oh yeah, I don't like to descriminate, but the one thing that really annoys me with Muslims, but whereas most religions can take and accept that they are not alone, and that others beliefs count too (well maybe not Jews), but they actively despise other religions and somehow think that their religion is "the one". No human or body of humans have the right to claim that.

what?

it is coz Islam is the "right" one. i have showed you a lot of reading material, but you being ignorant dont read it! :angry:

[TheElite]

Christianity also teaches that the only way to get into Heaven is through Jesus, and that all the other ways are invalid. However, we don't actively rub it in your faces as much, that's all. :)

hahahaha, that gave me a laugh! :shifty:

it doesnt say in the bible once that Jesus is God, people (christians) being sheep, follow exactly what they are told :whistle:

[35883]

i don't know really.. but i saw a hilarious thing last night..

i was watching a sciencesjow on tv where they discussed the string-theory and unification..

the funny thing was that a scientist who was sort of an expert was still blending in god in his way of explaining

that god meant it this way and other crap.. you can guess from which nation he was. :p

I mean how can you be a religious scientist?

that is just bs..