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MVC's, the ones we missed

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ev0|    2

The whole badge thing is completely silly and is simply a reflection of this very immature community. If you guys were serious about having a more mature community, the first things that can go are badges and the second thing that can go is the whole post count period. I mean, who cares ?

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Fred Derf    217
I have to say that I think gwai lo's posts do merit mvc status. Some of the other choices on there perhaps not. like <snipped> who I find his posts are quite borderline abusive. His a networking god no question and he knows his stuff but rewarding some of his posts which are quite irate to me is irritational for a site like neowin that aims to distance itself from such behavier. I'm not the only one that feels this way I mean I'm sure like many on Neowin we keep touch off the board via MSN and other IM services and the MVC has been a hot topic of late. Many feel the way that rich has explained on the earlier pages.

First of all, I edited the name. I do not want to talk about specific people.

I will say that these members were not added to our staff list. Like Subscribers and our regular members, they are a valued part of our community but they can be warned and disciplined like anyone else. They do not speak on behalf of Neowin and they will not be making decisions that affect other members. Their MVC badge is not unlike the Subscriber badges except that we recognize their ability and willingness to help others rather than their financial contribution (although several MVCs were also Subscribers so we're doubly appreciative :D ).

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Vice    1,593

I apologise for naming names. But really you can't control the way that people view Neowin and if you the staff hand out MVC that to me at least means those MVC members to an extent reflect the staff and thus Neowin as a whole. And if MVC's then conduct themselves in a manner that is unacceptable it does by relation to them receiving the valued status by Neowin make Neowin look as to be condoning there actions before receiving the fact (badge). Not so much after however.

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CrashG    439
I have to say that I think gwai lo's posts do merit mvc status. Some of the other choices on there perhaps not. like <snipped> who I find his posts are quite borderline abusive. His a networking god no question and he knows his stuff but rewarding some of his posts which are quite irate to me is irritational for a site like neowin that aims to distance itself from such behavier. I'm not the only one that feels this way I mean I'm sure like many on Neowin we keep touch off the board via MSN and other IM services and the MVC has been a hot topic of late. Many feel the way that rich has explained on the earlier pages.

Have you looked at some of the questions The Network GURU has had to answer? Most of them start out about as vague of a question as you can get. Folks that supply little to no info on what they're working with, as well as their problem kinda deserve what they get. Example Topic: I can't connect to the Internet!

How the hell can you help someone when they provide ZERO info about the problem they have?

Haven't mastered Mind Reading yet, and the Crystal Ball is in the shop for repairs. :laugh:

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Fred Derf    217
Have you looked at some of the questions The Network GURU has had to answer? Most of them start out about as vague of a question as you can get. Folks that supply little to no info on what they're working with, as well as their problem kinda deserve what they get. Example Topic: I can't connect to the Internet!

How the hell can you help someone when they provide ZERO info about the problem they have?

I use two NATs for better security. :D

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Vice    1,593
Have you looked at some of the questions <snip> has had to answer? Most of them start out about as vague of a question as you can get. Folks that supply little to no info on what they're working with, as well as their problem kinda deserve what they get. Example Topic: I can't connect to the Internet!

How the hell can you help someone when they provide ZERO info about the problem they have?

Even so, if a user doesn't give enough information does that mean you have to be out-right abusive? I mean I remember once I asked him in PM about some simple GUI based programs for networking. And he practically went off at me for several paragraphs about how I should have basically be born using command line and how users always want things handed to them on a plate. It was completely unnecessary. I did not demand, I asked a simple one lined question if he knew of any GUI based networking programs..

No I'm not saying Neowin should be monitoring PM's or Neowin can control what I receive via PM's this is just an example of the way he condones himself on the forum (He is the same way out of PM) and apparently Neowin is ok with that to give him the MVC and allow him to continue with his special way of 'helping'. I removed his name from your quote as per Freds request.

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CrashG    439
I use two NATs for better security. :D

:laugh:

Thats the way to keep this discussion on a *lighter* note. :D

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Vice    1,593
I use two NATs for better security. :D

only 2? I route my traffic through a sega megadrive with 3DO attachment. No ones getting through that, not even my own internet access from my service provider!

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mycoolkim    29

Good luck to the MVC and i hope everyone still enjoys this community, as it will always e the same,

guess if people who wish to be MVC and they know they wont wait it, start your own little

sig + avatar called MVC Wannbe or something hehehe anywho i hope everyone takes car have

has a good new year, thanks neowin for company during these years, and lets hope for a even

better year ~!

- mk

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CrashG    439
Even so, if a user doesn't give enough information does that mean you have to be out-right abusive? I mean I remember once I asked him in PM about some simple GUI based programs for networking. And he practically went off at me for several paragraphs about how I should have basically be born using command line and how users always want things handed to them on a plate. It was completely unnecessary. I did not demand, I asked a simple one lined question if he knew of any GUI based networking programs..

No I'm not saying Neowin should be monitoring PM's or Neowin can control what I receive via PM's this is just an example of the way he condones himself on the forum (He is the same way out of PM) and apparently Neowin is ok with that to give him the MVC and allow him to continue with his special way of 'helping'. I removed his name from your quote as per Freds request.

No it doesn't make it right to be an ass about a simple question, but MOST of the people DO just want the info served to them on a SILVER PLATTER, and are just too damn lazy to try and help themselves first, and I can completely understand his reactions. But you're refering to a specific question, I was refering to most of the questions that person gets asked.

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Vice    1,593

your right people do just want the information served to them on a silver platter. I have seen some of the Topics and many of them do not provide enough information and want the help now. But at the same time I think if your just going to be really cruel in your altercations with these people then why bother in the first place? I mean if you ask a police officer for help and demand he stop what his doing and help you immediately without giving him any information is it ok for that cop to beat you over the head? Or should he just ask you politely to calmly explain what it is you want and to let the person know that everything cant just happen because they are not the centre of the universe.

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chconline    158
And yet the hardware he recommends you to buy is OCz, Asus and Seasonic. The only 3 companies that have sent him Free hardware to keep and review lol

You are the one out there recommending Tagan products to everyone, and I know at least 5 people who works at Tagan from high administration to marketing relations in European and American offices. You don't see me recommending them all the time, because they aren't necessarily applicable in all situations.

I've worked with a few dozen companies. Not all companies are created equally.

rofl vice

1. He never read any of my reviews, in detail without prior conception of his personal dislike of me. You can find fault in anyone if you want, and you can find good in anyone reciprocally. Objectiveness is the key, and I fail to see any objectiveness here. I've explained to you before, but you refuse to understand.

2. Concept of "free" is wrong. If you work and you get paid, doesn't mean you get free money. I review, not recommend. That means that there's a positive and negative to every product. And I fail to see any failure on my part in this regard.

3. All my reviews and opinions can be cross referenced with any other review site. Feel free to do so. Most of the time, I recommend less when compared to those real 'recommenders' in juxtaposition to the real reviewers.

4. Ironically, Seasonic only sent me one power supply before. If there's any bias, I won't be recommending them all so often rather than my excellent impression of all their products -- including the ones I've bought myself.

Free stuff or not, still the best companies out there for hardware.
Well is that really true?

Asus boards are almost identical to the competition. And infact some of them are based on reference designs by Intel and Foxconn (Subtract from NVIDIA). OCZ RAM uses D9 chips which is the parent company of Crucial. The same D9 chips used in Corsair RAM and all other decent RAM. Seasonic PSU's are not designed by them but are infact OEM production units that are commonly used in Corsair and other companies products.

I mean what is unique about any of these 3 companies apart from them having lots of stock to send to reviewers for some good publicity on forums :p?

I don't recommend because of what I get, I recommend because of what is good. You don't see me recommending a Corepad product, or many of Asus motherboards themselves. I disrecommend some of them because I have hands on experience.

What's so unique about those companies is that they listen to feedback and improve their products.

Also:

eh...Corsair, Gskill, Teamgroup, Mushkin, Crucial all make good sticks.

Motherboards, have you seen the reviews for Abit's IP35 line? Or Gigabyte's P35 line? yepp, practically the same.

Power supplies, Seasonic is good yes, but don't forget about Corsair. Most people aren't willing to drop the money on a Seasonic power supply, Corsair filles the midend mid budget market fine. Thermaltake's Toughpower line is awesome in the upper range, Silverstone makes good power supplies..PC Power and Cooling anyone?

Basically, there's no best, but there are better priced or better fitting options out there.

edit: and pet peeve...vice, Micron D9GMH and D9GKX are the specific D9's modules that overclock well, not all D9's overclock well. :p

Yep... exactly. Motherboards don't contribute to performance much, rather than other aspects that count. In terms of performance, motherboards are benchmarked, because everyone does, and it's important for reference, not for comparison.

No offence intended but you sound like nothing but what I would call a sour grape. :p

Well, we know who is trying to spark controversy here. :p You are right lol.

Edited by chconline

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chconline    158

Ahh sorry double post... but...

+1 :yes:
Exactly, If anyone in Hardware Hangout deserves it he does. His opinions on hardware usually come from hands-on experience, not just info spouted from the manufacturer. Glad he got the recognition he deserves.

Thanks guys, you make me feel special :laugh:

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ccuk    48
Have you looked at some of the questions The Network GURU has had to answer? Most of them start out about as vague of a question as you can get. Folks that supply little to no info on what they're working with, as well as their problem kinda deserve what they get. Example Topic: I can't connect to the Internet!

How the hell can you help someone when they provide ZERO info about the problem they have?

Haven't mastered Mind Reading yet, and the Crystal Ball is in the shop for repairs. :laugh:

I have, and they don't require a certain MVCs' approach to the answers... clearly since staff are removing names from posts we can't have a proper discussion as to who and why we do or do not recommend as an MVC, I cannot name said person but I am sure we can guess who I am referring to.

Some of his/her information is factually misleading, and he/she appears to not have the patience to talk to the posters, merely at them. I have helped several people in the networking section when he/she could not simply because of his/her arrogant approach and dismissal of other posters suggestions, including the original poster. He/she applies one way logic to all the networking issues and sadly that does not work these days.

I have grievances with other members on the MVC list, but clearly, I can't talk about them here.

I am dissapointed by this MVC debacle and the fact staff seem to assume that the badges do not reflect on neowin. Sadly they do.

In my minds eye... every person replying is contributing greatly to this forum, and to cherry pick a few from the masses alienates the rest... Not what a forum is about in my humble opinion. It is making me doubt my participation within a community which feels as though it does not recognise all that its members (in their entirety) contribute.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
I have, and they don't require a certain MVCs' approach to the answers... clearly since staff are removing names from posts we can't have a proper discussion as to who and why we do or do not recommend as an MVC, I cannot name said person but I am sure we can guess who I am referring to.

Some of his/her information is factually misleading, and he/she appears to not have the patience to talk to the posters, merely at them. I have helped several people in the networking section when he/she could not simply because of his/her arrogant approach and dismissal of other posters suggestions, including the original poster. He/she applies one way logic to all the networking issues and sadly that does not work these days.

I have grievances with other members on the MVC list, but clearly, I can't talk about them here.

I am dissapointed by this MVC debacle and the fact staff seem to assume that the badges do not reflect on neowin. Sadly they do.

In my minds eye... every person replying is contributing greatly to this forum, and to cherry pick a few from the masses alienates the rest... Not what a forum is about in my humble opinion. It is making me doubt my participation within a community which feels as though it does not recognise all that its members (in their entirety) contribute.

I think the MVC award as we shall call it, is meant to go to those who have argubaly gone an extra mile than the rest. It's not to alienate any of the hard workers IMO - People who deliver well to the community get respect from other mods/memebers as it is.

Two of whom I can vow for are Bant/KoL - I know both of them churned out plenty of AAA themes and the reason I signed up to Neowin back in the day was for the themeing community itself - While I was a lurker, I read almost every topic by each ;) They are two of the big names who helped make Neowins customization scene what it is today.

What I feel the admins/mods therefore need to do is NOT turn MVC into an award nearly every average joe who posts in excess of say 1k replies/topics, helps every now and then, or is popular can get - If this happens then there will be anarchy due to people saying "WHY NOT ME... ME ME ME!"

It's a subjective matter, the idea of how much have you contributed? One user may feel what they have done merits the MVC award, while 10 others think he/she, while they help out the community, isn't quite there yet.

It really should be for those who could potentially be a mod, or someone who can be trusted not to break rules and to lead the community with AAA topics/replies, a friendly attitude and an overall good post etiquette.

It should work fine if those in charge of Neowin can differentiate clearly what they are doing with the MVC award, and IMO, keep it to those who fit the categories I posted above. If it turns into a popularity contest or what not, MVC will cause more headaches than it will be worth (N)

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Panacik    27
I don't really see the point in helping people out in the Hardware forum anymore as I know the MVC's will chime in and there word will be taken as gospel as they are MVC's. So giving a non-MVC opinion now to me at-least is just pointless. I guess I'll just stick in the General Discussion forum from now on, if that.

I agree with this. Although you have gone on a bit in this thread and i couldnt be bothered to read it all properly :D

You can still help someone out. You just *might* have to back up a reason for something other than what a MVC *suggests*, but your opinion is STILL needed, and most likely wanted.

Why should the others need to backup their answers? They didnt before, so it now means that "normal" members will have to push even harder to be heard.

I have, and they don't require a certain MVCs' approach to the answers... clearly since staff are removing names from posts we can't have a proper discussion as to who and why we do or do not recommend as an MVC, I cannot name said person but I am sure we can guess who I am referring to.

I am dissapointed by this MVC debacle and the fact staff seem to assume that the badges do not reflect on neowin. Sadly they do.

The names are removed as so to avoid personal attacks mate. Dont take it personally.

I too am a little dissapointed with it as it does change things for the "lower masses" unfortunatly, no mater how much they say it doesnt and its not suppose to... it does.

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Slimy    13

Wow you guys are blowing this out of proportion. MVCs opinons aren't better than everyone else's. The badge is a token of recognition, not a show of superior status.

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ccuk    48
Wow you guys are blowing this out of proportion. MVCs opinons aren't better than everyone else's. The badge is a token of recognition, not a show of superior status.

But this is the point we as members are trying to make... Staff chose the MVC's, they wear a badge so they appear higher ranked than regular members. It's not like these people have been voted in by neowin members. You guys as staff made the choice to take these people on as MVC's...

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Slimy    13

The fact that the staff chose MVCs is irrelevant to the fact that they are still members.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
But this is the point we as members are trying to make... Staff chose the MVC's, they wear a badge so they appear higher ranked than regular members. It's not like these people have been voted in by neowin members. You guys as staff made the choice to take these people on as MVC's...

If you are here on a "ranking high", then you're part of the community for the wrong reason IMO (that goes for anyone).

The funny thing that lots of you are missing is the community itself actually "votes" people into their MVC role! The admins/mods pick from people who are praised/respected highly by the members in the first place.

It's not a case of mods/admins randomly picking people based on how cool their name is, or if they have 15,000+ posts. IMO it's to do with how certain characters are embraced in the forums they post heavily in - Does 95% of that forum love "user x" and find them really helpful, friendly and to have contributed a lot/or contributed in a stand out fashion? If so, that user is probably up for MVC consideration - That's the way I see it anyway.

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ccuk    48
The fact that the staff chose MVCs is irrelevant to the fact that they are still members.

Ok... hows this. If one of said members isn't fully liked by the majority, why should they be "valued" higher than another members who may very well have offered better advice. To me this award should be about consistancy... not about how many times a member has jumped to the aid of another, which is what this is rapidly looking like.

And even if they are still members, you chose them to be above the other members... not the community itself.

@audioboxer... The first large batch were picked without any members knowledge from my understanding, and as for remarks about being here for rankings try again. I only ever post when its needed, not for the sake, I have helped a fair share of people too. I was part of this community because I enjoyed helping people, mainly HH. But I can tell you now, I am going to reduce this help because I feel my opinion will count less as a member than an MVC. Those who are new here will not understand the MVC system at all and to them they will appear the be all and end all. My issue is with certain members on the MVC, and not with MVC itself. I do however think MVC allocation could be handled a lot better using a public polling system.

People in a ranked position hold greater attention, than those with none. I am trying to be objective about this... Look at it as though you are a new member, or an unfrequent visitor... and see how the MVC's posts will be taken in context with a regular member. This is my point, and this is why I think the MVC's need to be chosen very carefully.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
Ok... hows this. If one of said members isn't fully liked by the majority, why should they be "valued" higher than another members who may very well have offered better advice. To me this award should be about consistancy... not about how many times a member has jumped to the aid of another, which is what this is rapidly looking like.

And even if they are still members, you chose them to be above the other members... not the community itself.

@audioboxer... The first large batch were picked without any members knowledge from my understanding, and as for remarks about being here for rankings try again. I only ever post when its needed, not for the sake, I have helped a fair share of people too. I was part of this community because I enjoyed helping people, mainly HH. But I can tell you now, I am going to reduce this help because I feel my opinion will count less as a member than an MVC. Those who are new here will not understand the MVC system at all and to them they will appear the be all and end all. My issue is with certain members on the MVC, and not with MVC itself. I do however think MVC allocation could be handled a lot better using a public polling system.

People in a ranked position hold greater attention, than those with none. I am trying to be objective about this... Look at it as though you are a new member, or an unfrequent visitor... and see how the MVC's posts will be taken in context with a regular member. This is my point, and this is why I think the MVC's need to be chosen very carefully.

That is just daft mate :blink:

Your opinion doesn't get credit down to the badge under your name, your opinion gets credit down to how it's presented, what facts if any back it, and how other people can interact with it (agree, discuss, disagree).

If people judge what others say solely on if they're a mod, admin, MVC, then those people are ignorant, and will always do that regardless of MVC being introduced.

My issue is with certain members on the MVC, and not with MVC itself. I do however think MVC allocation could be handled a lot better using a public polling system.

As in you don't think they've contributed enough, or you don't personally like them? This isn't a popularity contest.

People in a ranked position hold greater attention, than those with none. I am trying to be objective about this... Look at it as though you are a new member, or an unfrequent visitor... and see how the MVC's posts will be taken in context with a regular member. This is my point, and this is why I think the MVC's need to be chosen very carefully.

While I agree MVC members need to be chosen carefully, I don't think a new member or an unfrequent member is going to treat you differently if you post what they want to hear - Eg, helpful, respectful and entertaining posts...

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Rahul    0

hey where are Hoochimama,Snyper & Me !!!

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ahmz    28

I don't know about you guys, but when I help someone, be it online or off, I don't do it to be recognized or to be labeled as someone special.. I do it because it's a good thing to do. I don't care if someone has a badge and I don't, it's not going to make me do more or do less, because my goal isn't the badge, it's to help others. So uh, yea, stop complaining :)

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Wannes    38

Thank you Ahmz055. The whole point is to help eachother out. If you do so in order to get a reward you're either stupid or a selfish little guy/girl. I'm, nowadays, a lot in the Mac section and, yes, I'm helping out. Does it mean I HAVE to get a reconigtion? No.

Get a grip on life. Reconigtion takes longer than answering 2 questions. It's that way on Neowin, it's that way at school or at work, it's everywhere the same way.

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