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MVC's, the ones we missed

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Damo R.    29,658
hey where are Hoochimama,Snyper & Me !!!

:laugh:

One out of three won't get a badge ;)

I am waiting for the Spam group :shifty:

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ccuk    48
That is just daft mate :blink:

Your opinion doesn't get credit down to the badge under your name, your opinion gets credit down to how it's presented, what facts if any back it, and how other people can interact with it (agree, discuss, disagree).

If people judge what others say solely on if they're a mod, admin, MVC, then those people are ignorant, and will always do that regardless of MVC being introduced.

As in you don't think they've contributed enough, or you don't personally like them? This isn't a popularity contest.

Sadly, authority figures with badges do get heard more so than regular members... it is what I come across on a daily basis in real life and on forums. A lot of people are sadly ignorant.

I don't think they have contributed enough consistantly... How can I be judging this on whether I like them when I don't even know them? It is down to the information they post and how misleading and incorrect it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

I am just saying as its community driven this forum, the community should have decided... not the staff.

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+Audioboxer    2,876
Sadly, authority figures with badges do get heard more so than regular members... it is what I come across on a daily basis in real life and on forums. A lot of people are sadly ignorant.

I don't think they have contributed enough consistantly... How can I be judging this on whether I like them when I don't even know them? It is down to the information they post and how misleading and incorrect it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

I am just saying as its community driven this forum, the community should have decided... not the staff.

What im trying to put across though is the community have in effect decided, or helped to decide, whether they realise that or not.

Those who have been picked for MVC have been in some way, singled out by Neowins members - All the mods do is take note of this, and ultimately decide the fate of the "singled out" member.

I think it should stay like that, the mods are people who have been picked to do a job where they need to remain neutral and as level headed as possible. If we let all the 201,637 members of Neowin directly decide the fate of "user x" and a potential MVC status through something such as a poll, anarchy will break loose due to the poll no doubt turning into a popularity contest...

Can you imagine it? Members going about with banners saying "User X for MVC - Vote here now!!"

Best for the mods to decide behind closed doors - I'm confident they make neutrally impaired decisions based on the indirect recommendations from the Neowin members.

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markjensen    98
Ok... hows this. If one of said members isn't fully liked by the majority, why should they be "valued" higher than another members who may very well have offered better advice...
This seems to be the crux of your complaining. There is an awful lot of it, so I just picked this item. If you have specific points, I can try to address them.

I (and many staffers) stood behind people with whom they may have had conflicts in the past. I don't want to get specific with names, but one of the people I recommended and backed is from the completely opposite software camp that I am in (Open Source and all that jazz). We have disagreed at times in the past, but the point is he shares knowledge and experience with the rest of Neowin's members. And he does so without a lot of whining over and over about the same things, and argues with a foundation of reason - even if I disagree with his philosophies and beliefs.

This isn't a popularity contest. I can think of several MVCs who aren't well-known.

It is their contributions that are valued. They are not MVMs (Most Valued Members).

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Wannes    38

You do know that, while we are the biggest part of the community, the staff is also a part of the community. They were, just like you and me, normal members back then. They have been one of "us" and do know how we think. The staff can still make up for themself who contributed the most. If members were to vote, Snyper would have 10 badges just because he is funny but is that a contribution to a technology website?

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+BeLGaRaTh    43

I think a lot of this is broken biscuits, "I have made a load of posts in relevant threads but I didnt get an MVC" comments are uncalled for and un-needed, the people who got one are well deserved, as they have gone out of their way to help and further the neowin community. If people dont like these nominations, or think they should have had one, then I say go somewhere else. At the end of the day its a community, not an I have more posts than you so Im special and deserve an award kind of place. I wholeheartedly agree with Audioboxers sentiments in this instance, at least he is rational in the ideals of these awards :)

I know I cannot put across what I am saying so eloquently as most, but at the end of the day kudos to those who deserve it, and in this instance the right people have got their awards., anyone else is just a whinger :(

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chconline    158

Lol I find it interesting to see that, whatever you do, good or bad, there's always controversy :p

I do feel recognized and appreciated which is great, but I don't see how my opinions would be any more valuable than any other knowledgeable member here. :)

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gigapixels    99
I don't know about you guys, but when I help someone, be it online or off, I don't do it to be recognized or to be labeled as someone special.. I do it because it's a good thing to do. I don't care if someone has a badge and I don't, it's not going to make me do more or do less, because my goal isn't the badge, it's to help others. So uh, yea, stop complaining :)

Exactly. None of us that got it knew we had the chance to get it nor did we even know it was going to happen in the first place. We just came onto the board a few days ago and KABLAMO there was a shiny new color for our names, a cool badge, and a news post saying we were of the chosen few.

Just help each other out. Share your knowledge. The MVC badge is a badge of recognition, not one of authority or superior intelligence. You don't need to compete with us or feel as though your views are lesser than ours as that's simply not the case.

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Snypette    0

The one issue i see apparent in light of the new rule on tec input to the forums is that members with a high postcount that are not recognised by a mvc may feel singled out as not being a welcome part of the forums.

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Corris    42
The one issue i see apparent in light of the new rule on tec input to the forums is that members with a high postcount that are not recognised by a mvc may feel singled out as not being a welcome part of the forums.

Maybe, but I wouldn't see why, I'm going to take a wild guess and say Rappy doesn't feel singled out at all, and he has quite the large post count going on these days.

Post count is post count, it should mean nothing, you can get just as good advice from people who ahve lower post counts that bigger ones, so I don't see why it would amke a difference either way. :D

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markjensen    98
Maybe, but I wouldn't see why, I'm going to take a wild guess and say Rappy doesn't feel singled out at all, and he has quite the large post count going on these days.
Up until being mentioned by name, he probably didn't feel left out. :pinch:

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Corris    42
Up until being mentioned by name, he probably didn't feel left out. :pinch:

I'm sure Rappy doesn't mind, at least I hope not, he's a generally down to earth guy and is known for having a large post count. :cool:

And he knows I love him really. :p

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Damo R.    29,658

Thats it I am getting my coat!!!

:laugh:

I know I am respected around the forum for what I do which is inform about tv and join the banter but there are others out there that are more trained and know what they are talking about when it comes to stuff like Browser Problems or Hardware Faults. I love the fact my post count is big but that means jack crap when you think about it, by subscribing I know I am supporting the forum and maybe one day who knows I might be allowed to join the group but until then I am gonna post like its 1999...again!

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+Audioboxer    2,876
Thats it I am getting my coat!!!

:laugh:

I know I am respected around the forum for what I do which is inform about tv and join the banter but there are others out there that are more trained and know what they are talking about when it comes to stuff like Browser Problems or Hardware Faults. I love the fact my post count is big but that means jack crap when you think about it, by subscribing I know I am supporting the forum and maybe one day who knows I might be allowed to join the group but until then I am gonna post like its 1999...again!

Fact: You've hit the new topic/add reply button 17,907 times!

:o

:laugh:

:p

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Corris    42
Thats it I am getting my coat!!!

:laugh:

I know I am respected around the forum for what I do which is inform about tv and join the banter but there are others out there that are more trained and know what they are talking about when it comes to stuff like Browser Problems or Hardware Faults. I love the fact my post count is big but that means jack crap when you think about it, by subscribing I know I am supporting the forum and maybe one day who knows I might be allowed to join the group but until then I am gonna post like its 1999...again!

See, knew he'd be fine with it. :D

I think you understand the point of the Mvc's well and don't take it to heart like people have, which is great.

And you post Rappy, you post like there's no tomorrow! :p

Fact: You've hit the new topic/add reply button 17,907 times!

ohmy.gif

laugh.gif

tongue.gif

Rofl!

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Damo R.    29,658
See, knew he'd be fine with it. :D

I think you understand the point of the Mvc's well and don't take it to heart like people have, which is great.

And you post Rappy, you post like there's no tomorrow! :p

Yeah I understand the point I mean I would like to know if my name was put forward at all in the nominations but that will probably never be revealed and stored away like the Existence of UFO's and the Roswell Incident :shifty:

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Yusuf M.    1,362
I don't know about you guys, but when I help someone, be it online or off, I don't do it to be recognized or to be labeled as someone special.. I do it because it's a good thing to do. I don't care if someone has a badge and I don't, it's not going to make me do more or do less, because my goal isn't the badge, it's to help others. So uh, yea, stop complaining :)
Exactly. None of us that got it knew we had the chance to get it nor did we even know it was going to happen in the first place. We just came onto the board a few days ago and KABLAMO there was a shiny new color for our names, a cool badge, and a news post saying we were of the chosen few.

Just help each other out. Share your knowledge. The MVC badge is a badge of recognition, not one of authority or superior intelligence. You don't need to compete with us or feel as though your views are lesser than ours as that's simply not the case.

I couldn't have said any better myself. (Y)

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Corris    42
Yeah I understand the point I mean I would like to know if my name was put forward at all in the nominations but that will probably never be revealed and stored away like the Existence of UFO's and the Roswell Incident :shifty:

And pink forum badges....*play X-files music*

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Panacik    27
Wow you guys are blowing this out of proportion. MVCs opinons aren't better than everyone else's. The badge is a token of recognition, not a show of superior status.
I too am a little dissapointed with it as it does change things for the "lower masses" unfortunatly, no mater how much they say it doesnt and its not suppose to... it does.

Its like saying, because someone is a manager and someone is a simple worker, they would not listen to the manager over them. Of course a title and badge will make a difference. Im not jelous, although i know my view will come across this way, and i was not expecting to be chosen, if anything more than because of my past. However this new groups WILL change things for the lower masses on the forums. You can scream to others that the MVC group are not above anyone else, but they still will go with what they say over the normal members. It will also mean that other normal members will need to scream louder and backup their claims more and more, because others would rather listen to MVC's. Members are not meant to listen to mods and admins technical claims over other members, yet i find a lot of members take the mods and admins views as gospal.

Personally, i feel the reason this group was made, along with the other changes on Neowin, is because Neowin is slowely starting to lose members. I have noticed a slow down in posts recently in the last few months and i can see this new group only adding to the ammount of people losing interest and leaving Neowin.

As i said before however, i hope this is not the case and that im wrong... just cant help thinking im going to be proven right though.

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RadishTM    312
Its like saying, because someone is a manager and someone is a simple worker, they would not listen to the manager over them. Of course a title and badge will make a difference. Im not jelous, although i know my view will come across this way, and i was not expecting to be chosen, if anything more than because of my past. However this new groups WILL change things for the lower masses on the forums. You can scream to others that the MVC group are not above anyone else, but they still will go with what they say over the normal members. It will also mean that other normal members will need to scream louder and backup their claims more and more, because others would rather listen to MVC's. Members are not meant to listen to mods and admins technical claims over other members, yet i find a lot of members take the mods and admins views as gospal.

It's the members' choice if they want to listen to an MVC or not - since there are a few of them, they can't be everywhere giving advice. All we're doing is that us staff are recognizing them for the their technical contributions. Also, remember MVC status is not a regular status that we will be giving out - maybe once a year.

Tons of regular members are constantly posting technical advice on the forums. They all have a chance to become MVC's in the future, they just need to keep up the quality contributions - and they will stand out to us. Some more than others - but there is always next time.

This should raise the quality bar at Neowin, and return it to how it was back in the day.

Personally, i feel the reason this group was made, along with the other changes on Neowin, is because Neowin is slowely starting to lose members. I have noticed a slow down in posts recently in the last few months and i can see this new group only adding to the ammount of people losing interest and leaving Neowin.

As i said before however, i hope this is not the case and that im wrong... just cant help thinking im going to be proven right though.

AFAIK we have been doing well this month for posts. Neowin needs to be a technical site first, everything else in due course.

Radish?

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Panacik    27
It's the members' choice if they want to listen to an MVC or not - since there are a few of them, they can't be everywhere giving advice. All we're doing is that us staff are recognizing them for the their technical contributions. Also, remember MVC status is not a regular status that we will be giving out - maybe once a year.

Tons of regular members are constantly posting technical advice on the forums. They all have a chance to become MVC's in the future, they just need to keep up the quality contributions - and they will stand out to us. Some more than others - but there is always next time.

I realise what your saying, however what you are meaning to do with the new group and what others will sind with the new group is a different matter.

I dont care much for becoming an MVC and feel its an unfair system to a lot of good contributers. Whilst i realise there are contributers out there who deserve but did not become a member of the group, they are still bound to be upset over this and could mean you will lose some valuable members as well.

Righto, im off to bed. Damn IBS is giving me a right stomache ach:(:(

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Laura    146
I don't really see the point in helping people out in the Hardware forum anymore as I know the MVC's will chime in and there word will be taken as gospel as they are MVC's. So giving a non-MVC opinion now to me at-least is just pointless. I guess I'll just stick in the General Discussion forum from now on, if that.
I have to say that I think gwai lo's posts do merit mvc status. Some of the other choices on there perhaps not. like <snipped> who I find his posts are quite borderline abusive. His a networking god no question and he knows his stuff but rewarding some of his posts which are quite irate to me is irritational for a site like neowin that aims to distance itself from such behavier. I'm not the only one that feels this way I mean I'm sure like many on Neowin we keep touch off the board via MSN and other IM services and the MVC has been a hot topic of late. Many feel the way that rich has explained on the earlier pages.

As I said before, people with views like that clearly missed the point.

MVCs are still regular members, it's just that our efforts have been recognised. We don't have any higher powers or privileges.

No one is saying we know more about things than others. I doubt any of the MVCs could drop into every forum and help.

.....

I do not expect that new visitors will take the word of a MVC as gospel and ignore the other posters. New visitors probably suffer from badge overload. Besides, a person could be a MVC for their programming skills and their opinion on motherboards could be way off base. I wouldn't recommend anyone trust a MVC blindly any more than they would trust a Subscriber to tell them how we run things. They might be right, they might not.

Yup.

I hope that no one trusts anything I say without question just because of an MVC badge...that would be silly. I can program and put a PC together but I can't help anyone with Mac or Linux issues..for example. I rarely get to post in HH or the programming forums either - because someone else always gets there first.

Wow you guys are blowing this out of proportion. MVCs opinons aren't better than everyone else's. The badge is a token of recognition, not a show of superior status.

Yup, exactly. We're not demi gods!

Ok... hows this. If one of said members isn't fully liked by the majority, why should they be "valued" higher than another members who may very well have offered better advice. To me this award should be about consistancy... not about how many times a member has jumped to the aid of another, which is what this is rapidly looking like.

And even if they are still members, you chose them to be above the other members... not the community itself.

You seem confused. It's not a popularity contest so how well liked someone is shouldn't be the decider on getting an MVC. If someone consistently offers good, sound advice, then I would expect them to get an MVC or at least be considered from what I've read. I'm sure it is about consistency.

MVCs are not really above other members. It's a badge of recognition, NOT status.

If people like you insist on telling everyone that MVCs are "above" others then you are spreading misinformation. Not the road to an MVC..

@audioboxer... The first large batch were picked without any members knowledge from my understanding, and as for remarks about being here for rankings try again. I only ever post when its needed, not for the sake, I have helped a fair share of people too. I was part of this community because I enjoyed helping people, mainly HH. But I can tell you now, I am going to reduce this help because I feel my opinion will count less as a member than an MVC. Those who are new here will not understand the MVC system at all and to them they will appear the be all and end all. My issue is with certain members on the MVC, and not with MVC itself. I do however think MVC allocation could be handled a lot better using a public polling system.

People in a ranked position hold greater attention, than those with none. I am trying to be objective about this... Look at it as though you are a new member, or an unfrequent visitor... and see how the MVC's posts will be taken in context with a regular member. This is my point, and this is why I think the MVC's need to be chosen very carefully.

You enjoy helping so much that you are going to stop because of sour grapes? You are no Mother Terresa then.

If your posts are well written and based on facts that anyone can check up and verify, and you are fairly mature and objective, there's no reason why people should ignore anything you say. There's no reason why an MVC couldn't post garbage either, no one said we know everything. It's usually obvious if someone knows what they are talking about or if someone is writing rubbish.

Again, you've missed the point. It's meant to be a positive recognition. If you deserve one then it sucks that you haven't got one now, but keep up your good work and you will get the recognition.

Exactly. None of us that got it knew we had the chance to get it nor did we even know it was going to happen in the first place. We just came onto the board a few days ago and KABLAMO there was a shiny new color for our names, a cool badge, and a news post saying we were of the chosen few.

Just help each other out. Share your knowledge. The MVC badge is a badge of recognition, not one of authority or superior intelligence. You don't need to compete with us or feel as though your views are lesser than ours as that's simply not the case.

+1

Its like saying, because someone is a manager and someone is a simple worker, they would not listen to the manager over them. Of course a title and badge will make a difference. Im not jelous, although i know my view will come across this way, and i was not expecting to be chosen, if anything more than because of my past. However this new groups WILL change things for the lower masses on the forums.

Your analogy is flawed.

MVCs do not have authority over other members. We may have much expertise in some areas, but not necessarily more than non MVC members. Unlike managers who usually do have more expertise and experience than the simple worker (in their line of work, not necessarily elsewhere). We haven't been labelled as "gurus".

MVCs do not make decisions regarding other members and have no more influence than a non MVC, unlike a manager who could perhaps sack someone. The only exception to that is that we can put forward suggestions for new MVCs - which the staff will discuss and decide on separately without justifying their decisions to us (to protect privacy) - we're not going to be arguing with staff about it so our influence there is still limited.

New people register everyday, new people who could be experts in their field. Can MVCs be dished out every week? No.

Stop using terms like "the lower masses". It is not helpful, it is wrong. Non MVC members are not below those with MVCs. If you will insist on talking about the "lower masses" the MVCs will be in that group.

You can scream to others that the MVC group are not above anyone else, but they still will go with what they say over the normal members. It will also mean that other normal members will need to scream louder and backup their claims more and more, because others would rather listen to MVC's. Members are not meant to listen to mods and admins technical claims over other members, yet i find a lot of members take the mods and admins views as gospal.

.......

I've never taken a mod or admin's view as gospel over someone else's unless it actually looked like they really knew what they were talking about compared to the other person, and usually with sources/evidence. I don't recall seeing anyone else doing this either.

If someone wants to listen to an MVC over a non MVC, purely because they have a shiny badge, then they will fail at life for being too trusting and naive. Mo one can know everything and everyone gets things wrong.

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Denis W.    731

Just a note to those complaining about the MVC group:

There's quite a number of forums that have a respect system. If you help out a fellow member, they in turn click a plus sign beside your name to boost your respect level. If you post crap, the opposite happens. There are also other forums who opt to put mini trophies under your name. I suppose Neowin went for the latter approach but instead kept it more general. The first approach sounds 'fair' to some but as mentioned earlier in this thread certain popular members will be unnecessarily pimped for being a joker and a jackass. (Not that being funny is a sin though. :))

Also to those who are concerned that newer members will hold MVCs to a higher regard: many new members are one post wonders who post here to seek help with a tech-related problem, and then they never come back. (Some are here to spam, i.e. the "Autopatcher is no longer allowed" thread that has the most one post wonders in this forum apart from the beta invite threads.) If that were the case, they probably have no idea what 'MVC' stands for or would bother to check the Site Announcements to have it explained to them. They just want their problem fixed, nothing else.

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Ferret    6

Good on 'em - It's great to see some people being recognized.

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Damo R.    29,658
Just a note to those complaining about the MVC group:

There's quite a number of forums that have a respect system. If you help out a fellow member, they in turn click a plus sign beside your name to boost your respect level. If you post crap, the opposite happens. There are also other forums who opt to put mini trophies under your name. I suppose Neowin went for the latter approach but instead kept it more general. The first approach sounds 'fair' to some but as mentioned earlier in this thread certain popular members will be unnecessarily pimped for being a joker and a jackass. (Not that being funny is a sin though. :))

Also to those who are concerned that newer members will hold MVCs to a higher regard: many new members are one post wonders who post here to seek help with a tech-related problem, and then they never come back. (Some are here to spam, i.e. the "Autopatcher is no longer allowed" thread that has the most one post wonders in this forum apart from the beta invite threads.) If that were the case, they probably have no idea what 'MVC' stands for or would bother to check the Site Announcements to have it explained to them. They just want their problem fixed, nothing else.

Yeah I have seen that on the SMF forum format.

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