MVC's, the ones we missed

[chconline Veteran]

Oh please no with those rating formats. I've even had thread ratings disabled on my own forums.

These things are so easily abused, it's not even funny. I can just get a group of friends and uber downvote someone if I don't like them or something. :no:

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

So true. That's the major flaw with that rating system. The way Neowin is doing it now (with the MVC group) is good, for now that is.

[Panacik]

Your analogy is flawed.

MVCs do not have authority over other members. We may have much expertise in some areas, but not necessarily more than non MVC members. Unlike managers who usually do have more expertise and experience than the simple worker (in their line of work, not necessarily elsewhere). We haven't been labelled as "gurus".

MVCs do not make decisions regarding other members and have no more influence than a non MVC, unlike a manager who could perhaps sack someone. The only exception to that is that we can put forward suggestions for new MVCs - which the staff will discuss and decide on separately without justifying their decisions to us (to protect privacy) - we're not going to be arguing with staff about it so our influence there is still limited.

New people register everyday, new people who could be experts in their field. Can MVCs be dished out every week? No.

Stop using terms like "the lower masses". It is not helpful, it is wrong. Non MVC members are not below those with MVCs. If you will insist on talking about the "lower masses" the MVCs will be in that group.

I've never taken a mod or admin's view as gospel over someone else's unless it actually looked like they really knew what they were talking about compared to the other person, and usually with sources/evidence. I don't recall seeing anyone else doing this either.

If someone wants to listen to an MVC over a non MVC, purely because they have a shiny badge, then they will fail at life for being too trusting and naive. Mo one can know everything and everyone gets things wrong.

No matter how many time people say it isnt, it will still be viewed in that way. My anaolgy is not flawed. I realise that the MVC was not created for that purpose, however many members will view it this way, especially any newbies that come along.

I suppose time will either prove me right or wrong.

[»X«]

Wow. It?s interesting how much of an issue this MVC is in some people?s eyes. And there is no way of winning. Personally, I won?t take what any MVC says over a ?regular? member, it?s just how it goes. If some people want to, that?s their problem. The only thing I still stand by is people will assume that the MVC?s were chosen for either just posting allot of news/tech solutions/software downloads etc and try to beat it, or they will assume that these people are arselickers and follow suit. Again, that?s their problem and their loss.

Personally I say well done to the people who got the badge but there is no doubt that not even Tesco?s can cope with the sales of sour grapes over this. Me? I?m not bitter, I think it?s a good idea because it will keep the smart people in line and give them something to reach for perhaps. The not so smart ones will assume what I mentioned above, and therefore will be the overall losers.

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

[T]here is no doubt that not even Tesco?s can cope with the sales of sour grapes over this.

It's amusing to see people keep saying "It's not because I'm bitter" etc. when they complain but I think for a lot of people complaining (bunoti> all) this is exactly the reason.

[Scirwode]

:rofl:

It's amusing to see people keep saying "It's not because I'm bitter" etc. when they complain but I think for a lot of people complaining (but not all) this is exactly the reason.

I've mainly stayed quiet and have only observe the comments given on this thread but I think it was about time I had my say in this. All things considered, I can understand why there are doubts and complaints on the introduction of this new group. Some of it is genuine while others is I feel a plea to be heard, though if you feel otherwise, I apologise. I will try to address all the main points which I hope you can understand and evaluate in a professional manner.

The first point is that there is a general consensus on the valuable contribution of some of those who were chosen, or lack there of. I can understand this as some on this board may have had a different experience with those they feel are undeserving of this, or they may feel they are much more qualified than the ones chosen. Considering it is human nature to feel emotions such as envy, you can hardly complain about their objections. That said, I believe it is wrong to demean them when they have received this award for their contributions in the years since Neowin was established, some of vouch by a number of people. Sure, in your eyes, you may feel that they have done what is considered wrong but then again, doesn't that mean that, as fellow human beings, shouldn't we look past what they have done before and outweigh the positives against the negatives? Shouldn't we give them the benefit of the doubt and see if they can live up to the badge that they have just been given? Because it is just a badge - nothing more, nothing less.

We have all done something wrong in our lives, including yours truly. There is no such thing as a perfect human being, though you can strive to do everything in life with as much perfection as possible. The word for this in Islam is called Jihad, which has now been skewed by others as something associated with warfare and terrorism, but it is far from that. Jihad is, in a certain manner, a quest - a quest to do everything in life - religion or otherwise - and see it as a challenge, to give 110% in everything that you do, how small the matter it may be. Sure, sometimes we do something that is wrong and we're reprimanded for that. But for the most part, we're given another chance to prove ourselves. Shouldn't the same be given to these same individuals? Why not let them see out their term (as it is a term and it's not permanent) and see how this might affect them. Maybe they will see that since they are now under the spotlight, they might strive to better themselves in the way they contribute and the way that they post. I do not know, as I'm only human. However, they should be given a time frame to prove themselves. Who knows, you could be surprised. However, if you feel that no such improvement is forthcoming, then bring up the matter with the mods and I'm sure they will listen to you, as it would be now within reason.

The other point is the fact that now a group such as this exist, comments made by regular members would be ignored. I don't know about you but I find this amusing :laugh: ! It doesn't mean a person who is made a senator will the voice of a regular citizen be ignored. Sure, in some cases you can trust their words but for the most part, it is taken with a pinch of salt :laugh: ! I'm sure that to ensure a Senator's topic of discussion is genuine, he has references to those who have the problem which he wishes to discuss, which for the most part are regular people. It is the same with the MVC group in what they say carry more weight though it is nothing without the contribution of other members, most of it who are just regular. They have an advantage in that because they have a different colour than regular members, threads that they post in are much easier to notice. This I feel is good because it will then encourage other members to see what the topic is all about, and see if they can make a contribution. One cannot exist without the other so to speak, and the creation of the MVC group is just a small part in that cycle.

You can also look at this in another manner in that you can compare the MVC's to major computer outlets (shows you how much of a geek I am :laugh: ) in that sometimes the advice given by the staff is like a yo-yo - inconsistent and sometimes wrong - though for the most part, they do give sound advice. Those who own a small retail outlet do not have the reputation that their major counterparts have but some, if not most of them can give advice worth their weight in gold, though there is usually a catch somewhere. In this case, the consumer will have the most to lose if they depend on only one side in searching for their right product. However, if the consumer has the intelligence and foresight to visit both of these shops and evaluate both of their advice, they might be able to get not only the right product, but maybe even a better product based on the advice given by both sides. This as a whole, leads to better satisfaction on the part of the consumer itself. So for those who say they would not depend on the words given by the MVC's, you may be losing out on sound advice. The same also goes for members who take the word of MVC's for granted. If you do so, then that means in life you are easily taken in by others simply because they dress/look/work/drive/etc. better.

At the end of the day, you should not take anything away from the fact these people who have been recognised for their contributions. So let's give them the respect they deserve and drop this matter for another day, when it might be relevant.

Scirwode

[Fred Derf Veteran]

Ask five experts and get five different answers. The question posters will need to consider all the input and not assume that a post by any one member (or staff) is gospel.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Scirwode,

A long post, but well-thought out (Y)

[Creamy]

Soon, i'll be something special: A Member of the "registered" Group. ;)

[Sethos]

Soon, i'll be something special: A registered User. ;)

You are already ... :p

[Glowstick]

Since it's hip to post negative criticism, here's mine: You'd have to be insane to accept MVC status, unless you like people sucking up to you. A fair portion on these forums feels the need to worship posters whose name are in a different color (except orange). Everything said is going to be treated as gospel. I'd rather have people accept my insults and opinions because of merit and not because of a colored nickname (then again, I don't care about my merit either).

Actually, I wish I could disable nickname coloring.

But anyway, don't let me stop you.

[Sethos]

Good old Mr. Servo to the rescue :laugh:

[gigapixels Veteran]

Since it's hip to post negative criticism, here's mine: You'd have to be insane to accept MVC status, unless you like people sucking up to you.

I don't like people sucking up to me, and I'm certainly not insane. The problem with your argument is this: we've already built our own merit and people have listened to us as intelligent people long before we got the MVC badge. We're simply being recognized for it.

[Glowstick]

I sure as hell don't recognize most of you folks.

--edit: Which goes hand in hand with what I've said before. You don't know how many people actually listened to you. It was enough to get you that MVC badge, but might as well have been a tiny but vocal fraction. The new tag however guaranteed a boat load of suck ups.

[Sethos]

I sure as hell don't recognize most of you folks.

Yeah, but you are hardly a common face around all the sections of Neowin.

[Glowstick]

Yeah, but you are hardly a common face around all the sections of Neowin.

I read a lot of sections. I just don't post because a lot of threads make me want to beat some people with a bag of hammers. Since I ran out of email addresses to bridge the bans, I showed some ability to learn and simply don't post.

Anyway, the point stands. Color nicknames cause gravitational pulls as soon they start posting in threads. To be witnessed especially in forums that are more banter than tech.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Looks like someone is working on a earning a new badge of his own. :whistle:

[+Fahim S. MVC]

Not trying to suck up or anything - Tom, I think you deserve an MVC award.

Not for any other reason but I find your posts very entertaining!

[Bant Veteran]

Since it's hip to post negative criticism, here's mine: You'd have to be insane to accept MVC status, unless you like people sucking up to you. A fair portion on these forums feels the need to worship posters whose name are in a different color (except orange).

I think you've countered your point Tom. As you said, subscribers are treated no differently even though they have a badge and a colored name, how can you be sure that we will be? Staff are treated with a certain respect because they have power. We have no power. We are a lot more like subscribers than staff.

In fact, I'd say it's been sort of the opposite of worship in many cases (like, for example....in this thread). MVC's are now in the spotlight (perhaps a better term would be crosshairs), our words will likely be scrutinized and questioned by most forum goers. At least, that's what I would expect... That's what I would do.

Edited December 24, 2007 by Bant

[Calum Veteran]

OMG *yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn*

12 pages of boring bickering from members who can't accept that the MVC group was created for only a select few members who have obviously contributed to a lot of peoples problems and queries...

You say the members themselves haven't picked the MVCs??? Well, I have news for you: The staff are also members!! :o *SHOCK HORROR!* Yes they are in fact and IMO they are the members who will know more about who deserves the MVC badge because they patrol all forums regularly. They are bound to see the people who contribute the highest standard and they are also bound to see which members are more satisfied with the help they recieve.

At the end of the day, the people in charge have picked these MVCs in order to HELP you people who are complaining. Having MVCs will help us because it will allow us to know who has helped other members the most. It doesn't mean we will not listen to other members or take only MVCs' help as gospel.

Please just get over your jealousy and enjoy your time here!

Let's keep this thread at 12 pages shall we? Because IMO it's getting repetitive and various staff and MVCs have had to repeat themselves over and over again...pointlessly!

Thank you and good night!

[Rappy Veteran]

I thought this thread had died :laugh:

[Glowstick]

Looks like someone is working on a earning a new badge of his own. :whistle:

Yeah, let's pull an Orwell and kill negative criticism at its core. I didn't even start unpacking any insults.

Not trying to suck up or anything - Tom, I think you deserve an MVC award.

No thanks. Actually, the universe would implode if I'd get awarded with something positive here.

I think you've countered your point Tom. As you said, subscribers are treated no differently even though they have a badge and a colored name, how can you be sure that we will be? Staff are treated with a certain respect because they have power. We have no power. We are a lot more like subscribers than staff.

People know that Orange badges pay for their "priviledge". This is different.

In fact, I'd say it's been sort of the opposite of worship in many cases (like, for example....in this thread). MVC's are now in the spotlight (perhaps a better term would be crosshairs), our words will likely be scrutinized and questioned by most forum goers. At least, that's what I would expect... That's what I would do.

They're being questioned and attacked here because this is the only chance to do so. Try it in a random thread where one shows up and enjoy your warning or posting restriction.

You say the members themselves haven't picked the MVCs??? Well, I have news for you: The staff are also members!! :o *SHOCK HORROR!*

I'm going to draw a red laser dot on my forehead by saying this, but the staff aren't members anymore. Not in the sense of being representative of the member base. They've their own secret section where things are being discussed and made fun of. Circlejerking in forums results in a different view of things. That happens on any forum that has special sections with different "forum culture" and elitism. Just like I think the subscriber only sections aren't exactly a good thing.

If I had a say in this, each forum would have run a nomination thread for a certain time, with an unsaid rule that any exaggerated prose automatically disqualifies a nomination. But alas...

Edited December 24, 2007 by Tom Servo

[Wannes]

I think it's clear not everyone can be pleased, no matter what. I understand some of your points Tom but others seem just taken out of the wild, for example the subscriber only forum. Those people pay an extra, not obligatory, so Neowin gives them something extra back. I don't even the think that extra forum really makes us, non-subscribers, miss out on something.

[CloudEngineer]

I think it's clear not everyone can be pleased, no matter what. I understand some of your points Tom but others seem just taken out of the wild, for example the subscriber only forum. Those people pay an extra, not obligatory, so Neowin gives them something extra back. I don't even the think that extra forum really makes us, non-subscribers, miss out on something.

how do you know! we could be missing out on a lot lol

re: mvc's, my opinion is meh, i came to forum to ask questions when needed and help where i can, not to earn some green badge differentiating me from the rest of the forum but that's just me :)

[+StevoFC MVC]

re: mvc's, my opinion is meh, i came to forum to ask questions when needed and help where i can, not to earn some green badge differentiating me from the rest of the forum but that's just me :)

That's the point everyone seems to be overlooking. Up until now all of us (the MVC's) were here for the exact same reason, and still are...to be a part of the forum and help others whenever we could. There were no badges and we didn't know that we would get one. It just happened. We never helped people just to get a badge, because one never existed anyways, but it's nice to be recognized for it. You people are going way overboard with this.