jackwanders Posted May 19, 2003 Author Share Posted May 19, 2003 My god. I can't believe how off-topic this thread has become. My apologies to Jack31081 for not getting here earlier. Comments made by members like blzd|sicmade are prime examples of trolling behavior. This is a violation of our community ruleset. If you have nothing constructive to add to this discussion than you are strongly advised against participating. Saying such things as "macs suck" or "get a pc" are counter productive. Why even go into the mac section if you have no interest here? Leave it to the people that do and STFU! Thanks Keldyn. I actually didn't mind the turn this thread took that much, considering I didn't have a real point in the beginning anyway. I figured I'd get a reply or two and that'd be the end of it. 130+ replies later I was obviously wrong. It's a real shame that so many threads in the mac forum have to turn into this. It's just so pointless to bicker over what's better, and I think a lot of us know that. It's like arguing, "Apples are better! No, oranges are better! No, apples are better!" Unfortunately, we get caught up in the moment, and stuff like this happens. Personally, I'd like to get to the point where I can give up my PC for good. In the last few weeks I've seen how close knit the mac community is, and I have to be honest here, it's so much more mature than the 'pc community'...if one exists. It'll be nice to get away from countless talks about Ghz and what new motherboard is coming out and how my 3DMark score will never live up to the 'l33t' PC users and start talking about how I can actually use the hardware I have to my advantage...instead of how soon I need to upgrade again. I love computers, both hardware and software, but I'm graduating college next spring and I won't be able to afford to waste my time tinkering w/ my machines to get an extra 20 Mhz out of them. I'll need my machines to work the first time, every time. And I'm also glad blzd got banned. :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron901 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 In the last few weeks I've seen how close knit the mac community is, and I have to be honest here, it's so much more mature than the 'pc community'...if one exists. yeah because 99.9% of Mac users here have had more than 5 years of experiences with Windows machine, and thus we know what we're talking about. ALMOST 99.9% of PC users that stepped in here to bash Mac have never even touch a Mac before, they just blah blah blah, adding a few uninformed opinions of themselves to the stuff they've heard or read on the internet. that's why it's sometimes funny to see how they argue :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fissy Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 I think thats probably because you compare with the neowinians, who are by my reckoning, largely 14 year old boys. Mac users will probably be older because you have to be so damn rich to afford one. I would like a Mac, yet i criticize them heavily. Why? because they are fully worthy of that criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted May 19, 2003 Author Share Posted May 19, 2003 Are you talking to me fissy, if so, you're wrong. I don't only compare with the neowinians. I compare with the PC users on every forum I've been to, including MaximumPC, of which a good number of users are older than I am. I also compare with the PC users at my college vs. the mac users I know at school. Like I said, I've been building at programming on PCs for 7 years. I have a bit more experience of what PC users are like other than from these forums. I should know...I was one of them for a long period of time. As far as your "You have to be so damn rich to afford one" comment, all I ask is for you to consider this. When you buy a mac, you have a machine that will last you a while. No need to upgrade anything until the machine itself just falls apart on its own. When you buy or build a PC, sure you spend less money at the start, but you'll soon need to start upgrading the parts you originally bought, because if you did indeed spend less than you would have on a mac, then the stuff you bought was already a bit outdated. For example, when I started my freshman year at college, I bought an HP machine w/ an Athlon 1Ghz SlotA proc, 256MB of RAM, etc etc. Well it was great for about 5 months, but then the software I needed for school began to outpace my hardware. I needed to upgrade the memory first. Then I needed to upgrade the processor...but guess what? The SlotA processor was a dinosaur when I bought it...so now I had to upgrade my motherboard and my processor. But the motherboard I had to get to support the SocketA Athlon processor would not support the RAM I had. Time for new RAM as well. Needless to say a new motherboard would not fit in the original HP case, so I had to buy a new case as well. Soon after the crappy HP DVD drive crapped out on me, so I had to buy a new one of those too. So 5 months after I bought my "less expensive than a mac" machine, I had to repurchase memory, motherboard, processor, and case. Granted it's not this bad in every case, but I nearly replaced my whole machine in less than a year. Than just this past October, I finally gave up on my 1.2Ghz Thunderbird and bought a whole new P4 2.4Ghz rig, which I have now. The sticker price may be higher, but in the long run, you always get what you pay for. Think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frod Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 heh, fissy, the price thing is not really that accurate. macs don't really cost that much more than windows boxes. go price dells with 17" lcd screens and dvd burners. macs are pretty compareable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwanders Posted May 19, 2003 Author Share Posted May 19, 2003 this is true. Macs are more expensive because of all the stuff they come with. Like I said earlier, a Dell Inspiron 8500 (w/ top-o-the-line proc) spec'd comparably to the new Powerbook comes out 300 bucks more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fissy Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Your 1GHz computer is fine. I have a 1.33Ghz celeron (roughly comparable i think) and it can do everything i want it to. You upgraded your pc because you wanted to not because you had to. How long ago did you buy that machine? I would be happy with it now however old it is. Macs are so expensive over here (UK) that i could buy 2 more powerful pcs for the same price. I don't know if it is the same over in the US. Basically would you rather still be using a beige powermac or a pc just 2 years old. I know which is better. You're kidding yourself if you think different. The sticker price may be higher, but in the long run, you always get what you pay for. Think about it. In a perfect world maybe, but not this one. Jobs knows he can keep the niche market by selling over priced but beautiful computers, thats what hes been doing for the last 4-5 years. I think apple should cut the crap. They should half the amount of money they spend on their image and trying to make the Mac cool, and put that money into price cuts instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron901 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 you mean you criticize apple heavily because they price their products so high that you couldn't afford one? oh please.. then i bet when you get older and got a car licence, you'll start joining some ferrari or mercedes forums and start bashing them because you couldn't afford one ;) get some part-time job or save up or whatever.. i believe Justin is pretty young, 16 eh? yet he managed to buy an iBook by himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fissy Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 heh, fissy, the price thing is not really that accurate. macs don't really cost that much more than windows boxes. go price dells with 17" lcd screens and dvd burners. macs are pretty compareable. A power mac without a screen but with dvd burner costs about 2000GBP I could make a more powerful pc with a dvd burner AND a 17" screen for half that. The manufacturers would add on their own charges, but i bet i could find a pc with the powermac features AND the screen for 1300GBP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fissy Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 aaron, I happen to be saving for a powermac. That doesn't stop them being a complete waste of money when it comes down to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frod Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 and lose half the reason people buy macs in the first place? yeah that's not too smart. actually, a 1 GHz G4 is probably more comparable to a 2 GHz p4 than a 1.33 GHz Celeron. like i said, go compare prices. not just on boxes but on the complete systems. you will see the prices are not much different. if macs are so crappy why do you keep saying that you want one? sounds to me that you're just trying to cover the fact that all you want to do is bash apple and macs and get away with it. do some research before you try to make an opinion based statement fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fissy Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 read again man, i was comparing to the 1GHz athlon which i think probably does compare to a 1.33GHz celeron. The G4 is good, but i think you overstated it: i think you can multiply by a maximum of 1.6 to get the p4 rating. Macs aren't "crappy," they have the best OS in the world don't crash, and are the most beautiful computers in the world. They're not even slow really. You don't need the extra speed. What i'm saying is, apple price them like they're 4GHz machines, when in reality, the fastest probably compares to a 2.5GHz machine. I already have 2/3 of the money i need for my mac, so i couldn't care less if you think i'm aliar, fissy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frod Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 $1,799.00 17" iMac 17-inch widescreen LCD 1GHz PowerPC G4 NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 64MB DDR video memory 256MB DDR266 SDRAM 80GB Ultra ATA hard drive 10/100BASE-T Ethernet 56K V.92 internal modem Apple Pro Speakers SuperDrive $1,917 Dell Dimension 18-inch LCD (probably around the same width as the 17" widscreen apple display) 2.5 GHz P4 NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 64MB DDR video memory 256MB DDR SDRAM 60GB Ultra ATA/100 7200RPM Hard Drive 10/100BASE-T Ethernet 56K.V92 internal modem Harman Kardmon Speakers DVD+RW/CD-RW i added a logitech optical mouse to the dell, and dell's simplest movie editing software (to compensate for iMovie) and that is all. funny how you pay more to get a system with a smaller hardrive ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron901 Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 dude, if you think its overpriced and its not worth the money, just don't buy it. please. quit bitching about the price, if you couldn't afford one, just forget it. sheesh... what do you want?! Apple cuts the price so that you could buy one? my god.. i want a mansion on the hill, i want to own a company like Apple.. but i don't have the cash, oh! the mansion sucks, Apple sucks.. they're all overpriced and i've only got 3 cents.. :cry: i suggest you use the money you've got to buy a 3GHz P4 machine and live happily with it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldyn Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 my god..i want a mansion on the hill, i want to own a company like Apple.. but i don't have the cash, oh! the mansion sucks, Apple sucks.. they're all overpriced and i've only got 3 cents.. :cry: lmao (Y) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fissy Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 i did the same thing on the UK dell site and got pretty much the same as you. A slightly faster system for about ?1300 The imac costs about ?1800 here so the imac is more expensive and much less powerful. The dell i made had a hard drive twice the size of the imac to:p:p Apple cuts the price so that you could buy one? my god..Like i said, i'm going to buy one anyway idiot. Cutting their prices would be the best business decision apple can make along with getting the IBM chip now. i suggest you use the money you've got to buy a 3GHz P4 machine and live happily with it.. Listen to me Moron - I don't want a faster machine. I want a mac. I just realise that doing so means i will inevitably get completely conned by apple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diata Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 yea, im sorry, saying macs suck simply because they're costly is ridiculous. do all things that surpass your budget completely suck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fissy Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 oh ffs. I DIDN'T SAY MACS ARE CRAPPY. I SAID THEY WEREN'T LOOK AT MY POST ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE ok? I didn't say they were out of my price range either. That doesn't stop them being bad value for money. People if you are going to try and slag me off, could you at least read my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vespaman Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 ck ck.....come on people...grow up..there will be always a differences in opinion...let it be..there is no need to flame on each other....it won't solve anything..trust me :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fissy Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 i'm not flaming anyone. Its just annoying when people try to argue with you by quoting things you def. didn't say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Fissy...maybe you should read your posts. I don't know if you've come out and said "Macs are crap" exactly, but in every post you say the same thing in different words. You say Macs are overpriced, slow, etc...yet you want to buy one. Makes a lot of sense to me. Seems you need to learn more about Macs, because your "opinions" are way off base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fissy Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 Macs are overpriced and slow compared to the competition - thats nothing like saying they're crap. -That also doesn't mean I don't want one, I'm just not so blinded like the fanatics here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 over priced and slow? emacs are cheap.. i dropped alot more money into my pc. and i dont think my emac is slow at all :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fissy Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 good point Kasper, emacs are ok value for money. However if you want all the options like superdrive etc, you'll still pay double what you'd pay for an equivilent pc, and the cheapest emac is double the cheapest pc in walmart etc etc. Really, I'm comparing the Mac i would buy (only a powermac - i'm not buying a computer i can't even change the graphics on again.) with a pc i would make myself. *********************** I want to buy a mac because they have the best operating system, the best looking hardware (stuff you want in your living room), and because I want the HD cinema display. saving as ever, fissy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickedkitten Veteran Posted May 19, 2003 Veteran Share Posted May 19, 2003 i did the same thing on the UK dell site and got pretty much the same as you.A slightly faster system for about ?1300 The imac costs about ?1800 here so the imac is more expensive and much less powerful. The dell i made had a hard drive twice the size of the imac to:p:p Like i said, i'm going to buy one anyway idiot. Cutting their prices would be the best business decision apple can make along with getting the IBM chip now. Listen to me Moron - I don't want a faster machine. I want a mac. I just realise that doing so means i will inevitably get completely conned by apple you're lying actually cos at cwonline they have the imac with a free t68i and 10 dvd films for 1448 inc VAT oh and if you dont want an imac, for ?1596 inc VAT you can get dual 1.25ghz g4 256mb ddr333 80gb hd combo drive radeon 9000 pro firewire 800 10 free dvd films free t68i now will you please shutup about how macs costs ****loads more than pcs when they don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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