official Neowin.net Minecraft Server (Old Server)

[Magoo]

if we're not to have flying we really need to get some warps and a map its hard finding places that i want to go to when limited to the ground

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

I think that's a terrible decision. While I understand from a server owners perspective as I too have a Vanilla server, I hands down say X-ray is not allowed. Not this 'We can't control it so it's fine unless we catch you do it'. You either ban it or you don't, you need to make it clear to people that it's unacceptable.

How do you enforce the ban of a client-side mod though? That's the problem I see.

[Slugsie]

Or you could just accept that a majority of players, especially the regular players, are actually OK with XRay, and not ban it at all.

[Nuculi]

This is the reason i got myself banned from the Minecraft server ( I was drunk and out of control :( which in fair is no excuse)

 

I thought Crisp was in creative mode because he was flying around and asked Lou to put me in Creative ( That's in the past far as i am concerned.)

 

So i apologise to you Lou for telling the truth and not believing he wasn't i creative mode, sorry bud :)

 

also i apologise to crisps for burning his path thing (Was uncalled for but i thought you were in creative :) ), but i don't agree with this XRay thing either.  Its classed as a form of cheating and really spoils the server becasue others cant find resources (such as Diamonds etc)because they have already been mined and is not fair on other players. may as well be in creative mode.

 

Anyway that's my say :)

 

Do i deserve a second chance :)

 

Nuculi

[Haggis Veteran]

Who wants to give me Diamonds? lol

[Guth]

Once bukkit or whatever is out then we can use an obfuscation plugin t stop X-ray. Also it's obvious who is xraying if you watch them mine or look where they mined. You can clearly see them mine straight to the ores and ignore everything else. This is how other severs stop X-ray and how I've personally stopped it in the past.

There are plugins which kicked for X-ray mod too. As you saw in the screenshot the client reports its version as 1.8 X-ray. The server can see that and kick for it.

I can't see how people are even arguing that X-ray isn't a big issue. As I said the other day I got 8 diamonds in an hour and was so happy as that is incredibly fast. You could do that in less than a minute with X-ray!

I'm glad people agree that flying and X-ray on a survival server makes no sense. I'm not at home right now but when I'm back I'll be glad to play on the server again.

[Slugsie]

I'm glad people agree that flying and X-ray on a survival server makes no sense. I'm not at home right now but when I'm back I'll be glad to play on the server again.

 

Except people don't agree, that's why this is being discussed. As far as I can tell, the majority are actually in favour of it.

 

Lets also not forget that on the last server with Bukkit plugins that allowed mods to grant flying on request to players, it was given out freely. Never seemed to be an issue then.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

How do you enforce the ban of a client-side mod though? That's the problem I see.

Sponge said their server should be out in a month or 2 so that should have an anti-cheat plugin like bukkit did so that should be an option soon

[BritBronco]

can i be added

Brit_Bronco

[Slugsie]

No-one wants to address the points I made in my last post?

[thornz0]

Sponge said their server should be out in a month or 2 so that should have an anti-cheat plugin like bukkit did so that should be an option soon

 

Is spong similiar to bukkit in other regards too, or just the cheating thing? Sure would be nice to have /home and /spawn again.

 

Speaking of which, is there any movement to create the waypoints? I'll help if there's something I can do.

[Slugsie]

Speaking of which, is there any movement to create the waypoints? I'll help if there's something I can do.

 

Lou is on the case when he's finished another project. He has said however that he could do with a list of locations that want warps.

 

I started the list with:

• Spawn
• Iron Farm
• The End Portal

We might want a separate set in the Nether (can't travel between dimensions AIUI)

• Nether Fortress
• Gold/XP farm

I've also suggested before now that players can elect to have a warp going from their base to spawn if they want. Maybe even one going back, but I suspect most won't want that.

[thornz0]

Lou is on the case when he's finished another project. He has said however that he could do with a list of locations that want warps.

 

I started the list with:

• Spawn
• Iron Farm
• The End Portal

We might want a separate set in the Nether (can't travel between dimensions AIUI)

• Nether Fortress
• Gold/XP farm

I've also suggested before now that players can elect to have a warp going from their base to spawn if they want. Maybe even one going back, but I suspect most won't want that.

 

Those all make sense to me, and it sounds like Lou will have it handled. Are these going to be done via creative (if there is going to be any architecture with the portals I mean) or is he going to need any resources? With people out flying it would be nice to get alternatives to help ease travel - I'll help if I can.

 

Two worlds ago we had roads labeled and such in nether. Will portals alleviate the need to do that again?

[gohpep]

Instead of using waiting for Sponge, you could use RTBukkit.

I'm not sure how well it works.

[ToneKnee]

How do you enforce the ban of a client-side mod though? That's the problem I see.

 

 

I understand what you are saying, and someone who specifically runs a Vanilla like myself can tell you the obvious is that you can't tell.  Thought some things do help:

 

* Checking the console for constant movement errors, sometimes these can be caused by lag, but someone who is trying to fly will spam this console a lot.

*  We have a command block system which helps us regulate our Greylist system but also we have additional command blocks for spying on people.  One specific command block makes us invisible without any particle effects.  You need constant vigilance specially with new people.  

* Get yourself more Staff to help with the server.

 

But like me and others have witnessed in this thread, you need to be clear where you stand with these type of modifications.  Saying that it's fine but if you get caught then you'll get in trouble is asking for trouble itself.  You need to stand your ground and say that this isn't allowed whatsoever, and that should be apart of your rules.

 

Also, for those in this thread saying that they need flying or warps etc are an absolute joke.  Go back to playing on Creative servers or Bukkit servers with these modifications.  Neowin has a Vanilla survival server and you should treat it as such.   What's the point in playing a survival server if you are going to literally cheat your way around it?  If I was apart of the Neowin staff I would remove the lot of you, it's unfair for them and more importantly, unfair on the players who want a legit server.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Is spong similiar to bukkit in other regards too, or just the cheating thing? Sure would be nice to have /home and /spawn again.

 

Speaking of which, is there any movement to create the waypoints? I'll help if there's something I can do.

check out their FAQ page. it will be similar but different (likely better) than bukkit. there are devs from bukkit along with devs from many other projects working on it

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Instead of using waiting for Sponge, you could use RTBukkit.

I'm not sure how well it works.

looks like it hasn't been updated for 1.8 servers so that doesn't help unfortunately

[Slugsie]

 

Also, for those in this thread saying that they need flying or warps etc are an absolute joke.  Go back to playing on Creative servers or Bukkit servers with these modifications.  Neowin has a Vanilla survival server and you should treat it as such.   What's the point in playing a survival server if you are going to literally cheat your way around it?  If I was apart of the Neowin staff I would remove the lot of you, it's unfair for them and more importantly, unfair on the players who want a legit server.

 

Noone is saying they *need* flying or warps, you are creating a complete strawman. Unfair on the players that want a legit server? Apart from the fact that it is the majority of the very regular players (i.e. on every day for a couple hours at least) that either want this or are OK with it - isn't it unfair on them? It's a minority of very casual players that have complained and caused the current discussions. When this issue began Frank asked the everyone playing at the time what they thought. Pretty much everyone was fine with it so Frank let it stand. Then a couple people complain and that decision is reversed without discussion.

 

I'd like to repeat, my earlier question. Why is it that a minority of players are taking preference over a majority? Also, why is it that something that was freely given on the last server suddenly banned?

Edited September 25, 2014 by Slugsie

[Slugsie]

We also seem to have a few people chiming in who either don't play on the server, or are on incredibly rarely (hard to be certain without being able to quickly match forum names to game name). With respect, your opinions should hold little weight against players who are on the server very regularly, and who contribute a lot of time and effort into providing big builds and resources for the rest of the server community.

[Crisp]

I understand what you are saying, and someone who specifically runs a Vanilla like myself can tell you the obvious is that you can't tell.  Thought some things do help:

 

* Checking the console for constant movement errors, sometimes these can be caused by lag, but someone who is trying to fly will spam this console a lot.

*  We have a command block system which helps us regulate our Greylist system but also we have additional command blocks for spying on people.  One specific command block makes us invisible without any particle effects.  You need constant vigilance specially with new people.  

* Get yourself more Staff to help with the server.

 

But like me and others have witnessed in this thread, you need to be clear where you stand with these type of modifications.  Saying that it's fine but if you get caught then you'll get in trouble is asking for trouble itself.  You need to stand your ground and say that this isn't allowed whatsoever, and that should be apart of your rules.

 

Also, for those in this thread saying that they need flying or warps etc are an absolute joke.  Go back to playing on Creative servers or Bukkit servers with these modifications.  Neowin has a Vanilla survival server and you should treat it as such.   What's the point in playing a survival server if you are going to literally cheat your way around it?  If I was apart of the Neowin staff I would remove the lot of you, it's unfair for them and more importantly, unfair on the players who want a legit server.

 

Congrats, no one cares you run a server. It's already known who is using it, so what you've suggested is irrelevant. Finally; if you "remove" the lot of us, the server would be empty, it's started to dwindle as is.

[gohpep]

looks like it hasn't been updated for 1.8 servers so that doesn't help unfortunately

Um no, it has no version. It depends on Minecraft vanilla, that's why it says it is version agnostic, it is compatible with every Minecraft version as long as you have the respective Minecraft vanilla server jar.

It does say it is compatible with "(1.7+) vanilla Minecraft server versions."

[thornz0]

Noone is saying they *need* flying or warps, you are creating a complete strawman. Unfair on the players that want a legit server? Apart from the fact that it is the majority of the very regular players (i.e. on every day for a couple hours at least) that either want this or are OK with it - isn't it unfair on them? It's a minority of very casual players that have complained and caused the current discussions. When this issue began Frank asked the everyone playing at the time what they thought. Pretty much everyone was fine with it so Frank let it stand. Then a couple people complain and that decision is reversed without discussion.

 

I'd like to repeat, my earlier question. Why is it that a minority of players are taking preference over a majority? Also, why is it that something that was freely given on the last server suddenly banned?

 

Because you're the only vet actually on the forum saying they want it. No doubt there's more here (crisp, obviously), but then you and the others are also the ones that tried to hide your activities, and rather than admit was really going on, let someone make a utter fool of themselves. At any point it could have been resolved by telling him the truth. You even tried defending Crisp by claiming there was no proof he was using xray, when you knew, knew he was in fact using the same mod as you. You were also (not necessarily you - but the general x-ray users with loads of resources) the ones arming some of the new players with full gear, who were being disrespectful, and led to some of their entitlement attitudes. There's been no attempt on your part to say yeah, some people were jerks and abused it, and maybe we unintentionally encouraged it, but we'll help to monitor and improve. No search for middle ground, just we play more and deserve what we want.

 

I never asked anything be banned - in fact I said I'd play regardless. You know what though, you've done nothing but whine about it instead of trying to compromise. It's been said repeatedly that x-ray is okay if you're respectful of others area, but for some reason that's not good enough. I don't know, you're acting like all this stuff has been taken away, but really its only flight. And as far as that goes, the last world was mixed. This was voted to be survival only, and just because others don't play as much, doesn't mean they don't get a say as long as they're going to play. *shrug*

 

There's your answer - I was trying to be positive. And again, I never asked for mods banned, and only complained specifically about the new players being jerks. I only asked that others using them be more considerate.  I even offered to help with the waypoints since travel seemed to be one of the annoyances. It seems like you just want to fight this until others agree though, even though you already agreed to abide by them. And as far as I'm aware, both of your other suggestions/requests were going to be considered (waypoints and map increases).  :(

[Magoo]

i think there is a misunderstanding here. what i think slugsie was trying to say is crisp wasn't using the x-ray feature of the mod which would only show the ores and not much else and it has blown thing way out of proportion, since the mod provides more than just x-ray features

[Slugsie]

@thornz0

 

I think you've either misunderstood my questions (quite possible, I know I'm not the greatest communicator), or are misrepresenting my position.

 

1. I never tried to claim there was no proof Crisp was using XRay, I was just surprised that anyone spotted he was using XRay from the screenshot. I had never noticed that the MC version info had changed. Of course I knew full well that Crisp was using XRay, it was me that told him that the mod had been released.

2. I have never armed new users on this server with full gear. I cannot, and will not, apologise or try and excuse other players if they choose to do that. That is up to them.

3. Plenty of players have turned up with 'entitled attitudes', irrespective of whether they use XRay or not and whether they were helped by someone who does or not. Big deal. Real life is full of entitled a-holes.

4. OK, fair comment. Some people who (ab)used XRay have been jerks about it. But again, I cannot and will not apologise for how other players act. That is their problem. I only hold myself accountable for my actions, and I don't believe I have been a jerk. If anyone else feels differently then they should let me know.

5. I never tried searching for middle ground/compromise? Are you kidding me? You even admit that I have said - on multiple occasions - I will ultimately accept whatever decision is handed down. I have also proposed a solution that was completely ignored.

6. I am not whining. I am simply asking questions that have as yet been basically ignored, especially by the game mods.

7. To be perfectly honest, the x-ray part of the mod I couldn't care less about. It's not actually all that useful most of the time. It's the flying that I'd prefer to keep as it takes a lot of the very boring work out of big builds. I've even considered trying to rip apart one of the XRay mods to remove the x-ray part and make it a pure flying mod.

8. The last world was strictly Survival at the start. However that attitude quickly softened, and ultimately Flight was freely given out when requested, then Creative. Once you get used to having flight you soon forget how restrictive playing pure Survival without it is, so a Survival only server doesn't sound too bad.

9. Every player should get a say sure. No problem, as long as they do actually play. Should the say of a casual player override the say of a frequent player? What about people who aren't on the server just post in the forum? That doesn't seem particularly fair to me.

10. I'd also like to remind everyone of what type of game MineCraft is. It doesn't have a goal. There is no end game. You mine, you build. Seeing as we don't do PvP there is no competition. The fact that player X has a super dooper pick axe, and glowy bling armour has no actual affect on player Y apart from the old Green Eyed Monster. (Unless of course X is being a jerk and strip mining under Y)

 

I think I too am trying to stay positive. I'm fighting this until I feel that a fair result is reached - and that doesn't mean until I get my way. I just like to know that all points have been understood, and that where decisions have been made those decisions are reasonable and justified. Yes, I am the only one sticking my head above the parapet on this, but I know that I represent the views of several other players. That fact that they haven't chimed in should in no way change that.

[Nuculi]

 

9. Every player should get a say sure. No problem, as long as they do actually play. Should the say of a casual player override the say of a frequent player? What about people who aren't on the server just post in the forum? That doesn't seem particularly fair to me.

 

 

What about people who used to play on the server, i'm entitled to my opinion, and was a very regular player. Survival should be Survival, nothing else, Flying about the place is NOT part of vanilla Minecraft. unless in creative mode of course.