Windows 10 will be completed this week

It's a busy time in Redmond, Washington as Microsoft is preparing to sign off on its most ambitious Windows release to date. Windows 10, which is in the final stages of testing right now, is expected to be signed off this week, according to our internal sources.

Microsoft has been working on Windows 10 for several years, and originally called 'Threshold', the OS is the follow-up to Windows 8 which received a less-than-warm reception by consumers. Windows 10 breaks from the past with a new 'free' price tag for upgrades, becoming Windows as a Service, and the core of the OS now runs on every device Microsoft builds and supports.

This week, the company will complete their initial testing and sign off the OS, or what many refer to as RTM (Release to Manufacturing). But this does not mean that the OS is done - far from it, as Microsoft will continue to add new features with the first set arriving this fall, and then there is Redstone that will be delivered next year.

Microsoft is going to release Windows 10 on July 29th and the OS will roll out in waves starting with Windows Insiders. This means that if you opted into the upgrade process, you may not receive the OS on the 29th.

Releasing an OS to manufacturing is a major milestone for Microsoft as it signals the OS is now 'complete' for shipping. But, if you buy a new machine with this build on it, don't be too surprised if there are a few updates needed out of the box.

We will keep you posted about when the OS is completed but expect the news to come relatively quickly as Microsoft has a few internal deadlines to meet to make sure its partners get the builds in time for the launch later this month.

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140 Comments - Add comment

Torolol

'completed' with pletohra of bugs/zero-day exploit, that need continuous constant patches each month.

The_Decryptor

Welcome to software development.

Tomo

You mean like we have already?

Jarrichvdv

Torolol said,
'completed' with pletohra of bugs/zero-day exploit, that need continuous constant patches each month.

That's how continuous software delivery works, man. As a developer myself, I can tell you that this is normal :)

ZombieFly

ive worked in software development for 20yrs. This is not software development, this is BAD software development

dontbeevil

Torolol said,
'completed' with pletohra of bugs/zero-day exploit, that need continuous constant patches each month.

tell me ONE software with zero bugs

Jarrichvdv

ZombieFly said,
ive worked in software development for 20yrs. This is not software development, this is BAD software development

You seem to be getting older then. Today, technology moves forward.

ZombieFly

Jarrichvdv said,

You seem to be getting older then. Today, technology moves forward.

don't get your point. technology has always moved forward. Sloppy development is not the same thing. If you think it is, YOU are part of the problem.

If a product isn't ready for public consumption then it should not be released to the public, as the only loser is the publisher of that software. Sure, i get agile development and incremental feature releases, but this is not the state of things here. We barely have a usable OS, it's full of bugs and inconsistencies. For me it doesn't matter as i will fix and work around them. For the consumer, they'll hit problems that can't be easily solved for issues they never had before on their computer. That's not technology moving forward, that's just ######

Edited by , Jul 6 2015, 8:24am :
Dot Matrix

You're attempt at trolling has failed.

nekrosoft13

Jarrichvdv said,

That's how continuous software delivery works, man. As a developer myself, I can tell you that this is normal :)

no corporate or industrial users will adapt an os that is in constant development. companies are used to waiting for sp1 before slowly adapting it.

thavid

This is not a debian project, when the devs release the product once they believe it is technically ready. It's a big corporation, and the shareholders sort-of decide when the product should be released based on marketing and accounting figures. What happens next is that the product manager will get a list of bugs from engineering, and should prioritise what needs to be addressed before RTM or RTW according to the resources (engineers and devs) available, and the remaining bugs will be adressed during the product's lifecycle.

Seriously, don't fool yourself about this being just Microsoft, every big IT company works this way (Citrix, VMware, Symantec, you name it). And you'd be surprised by the amount of under-the-hood bugs that are indeed critical that might go unnoticed during these initial releases, hence the reason enterprise customers never run on the bleeding edge.

Cheers

Crisp

dontbeevil said,

tell me ONE software with zero bugs

All of EA's games.

ZombieFly

thavid said,
This is not a debian project, when the devs release the product once they believe it is technically ready. It's a big corporation, and the shareholders sort-of decide when the product should be released based on marketing and accounting figures. What happens next is that the product manager will get a list of bugs from engineering, and should prioritise what needs to be addressed before RTM or RTW according to the resources (engineers and devs) available, and the remaining bugs will be adressed during the product's lifecycle.

Seriously, don't fool yourself about this being just Microsoft, every big IT company works this way (Citrix, VMware, Symantec, you name it). And you'd be surprised by the amount of under-the-hood bugs that are indeed critical that might go unnoticed during these initial releases, hence the reason enterprise customers never run on the bleeding edge.

Cheers

that works fine in a corporate environment as adoption is slower as you say. However, when MS has done nothing but push it's free upgrade at the home user, then this is bad given the state of the product. they'd have been better with a quieter release process and then a bigger push to the end user towards the end of the year IMHO, if only to ensure the product is better received by the masses than windows 8.

ZombieFly

Dot Matrix said,
You're attempt at trolling has failed.

wrong thread? your pointless post has no place in this discussion?

also, it's YOUR. learn some basic English before attempting to be a smart ass

encarta

ZombieFly said,

wrong thread? your pointless post has no place in this discussion?

also, it's YOUR. learn some basic English before attempting to be a smart ass

I believe "you're" was intentional.

Rigby

ZombieFly said,

wrong thread? your pointless post has no place in this discussion?

also, it's YOUR. learn some basic English before attempting to be a smart ass

If you are going to critique someone's grammar perhaps you should learn to capitalize your sentences first.

ZombieFly

Rigby said,

If you are going to critique someone's grammar perhaps you should learn to capitalize your sentences first.

phones. they do that.

chago12

your username shouldnt be troll but clueless

SharpGreen

Crisp said,

All of EA's games.


He said zero bugs....not 1000 :p

Dot Matrix

ZombieFly said,

wrong thread? your pointless post has no place in this discussion?

also, it's YOUR. learn some basic English before attempting to be a smart ass

Hold on, I got something for this:

ZombieFly said,

phones. they do that.

Malisk

ZombieFly said,
ive worked in software development for 20yrs. This is not software development, this is BAD software development

The more complex the software, the more complex the maintenance. By that time, you should really know that. An operating system like Windows that is supposed to run on tens of thousands of combinations of hardware configurations and still support software from decades ago, is a massive undertaking.

z3rodown

"Completed"
There are still tons of bugs to iron out and we will be seeing fixes for the next few months atleast. Wifi is still wonky in the latest version and sound drivers don't work properly for any device.

George P

z3rodown said,
"Completed"
There are still tons of bugs to iron out and we will be seeing fixes for the next few months atleast. Wifi is still wonky in the latest version and sound drivers don't work properly for any device.

Sound issues could be more a case of your sound card makers drivers needing to be fixed for windows 10 and not the OS at fault.

SharpGreen

z3rodown said,
"Completed"
There are still tons of bugs to iron out and we will be seeing fixes for the next few months atleast. Wifi is still wonky in the latest version and sound drivers don't work properly for any device.

Any? You sure it's not just certain ones? Sound works quite well on all of my devices.

Chicane-UK

This is insane.

From most peoples feedback on the current builds, I just can't see how Microsoft will be happy to sign it off so soon. I think this is going to come back to bite them badly.

yung_pharma

MS said you will not get the update if drivers aren't fully compatible. I think people are overreacting (like always for that matter).

Chicane-UK

yung_pharma said,
MS said you will not get the update if drivers aren't fully compatible. I think people are overreacting (like always for that matter).

I really don't. Time (and reviews) will tell.

nekrosoft13

Chicane-UK said,
This is insane.

From most peoples feedback on the current builds, I just can't see how Microsoft will be happy to sign it off so soon. I think this is going to come back to bite them badly.

will be vista all over again

DeusProto

Way too early.

It needs another 8-10 months as beta and another 2 months after that of RC.

Jarrichvdv

DeusProto said,
Way too early.

It needs another 8-10 months as beta and another 2 months after that of RC.


Uhm, did you use the latest builds? They are very, very stable and look pretty polished.

coth

judging by 10162 it's still needs at least half a year to fix most problems.

Jarrichvdv

coth said,
judging by 10162 it's still needs at least half a year to fix most problems.

What problems?

encarta

Jarrichvdv said,

look pretty polished.

LOL

Jarrichvdv

amnesiality said,

LOL


Whether you like or don't like the UI is irrelevant to me. They've added a ton of polish in the last weeks, with more to come continuously as Windows is now being developed as a service.

(Account no longer active)

10 isn't as big upgrade as Vista to 7 was (wish it were though). Beneath the hood, it's pretty much the same as 8. Just UI elements have been tweaked, and the Metro framework and Start menu have had an 'upgrade' (nothing I'd call major though). I would have called it 'Windows 8.2' or '8.5', not 10.

GrzegorzWidla

7 was tiny compared to Vista. You've got it all wrong. Windows 10 is enormous development under the hood. You are completely missing that it's a single OS for phones, tablets, game consoles, IoT devices, wearables, laptops, desktops, VR and AR headsets and even 84" conference room multi-touch screens. And even if we ignore that then changes for PCs alone are larger than in 7 as well. Design language is tiny part of it.

nekrosoft13

coth said,
judging by 10162 it's still needs at least half a year to fix most problems.

6 months is a bare minimum

sinetheo

Hey they bricked my SP 3 when I tried to do a revert in pc settings.

You want to pay me for a new one then?

Ian W

68k said,
10 isn't as big upgrade as Vista to 7 was (wish it were though).

Windows 10 is not a major upgrade on the scale of Windows Vista.

And Windows 7 was a relatively minor release when compared with Windows Vista. Even Microsoft has said so.

deadonthefloor

GrzegorzWidla said,
Design language is tiny part of it.

Right. That's why they wasted the better part of a year tweaking Modern2.0 into Adaptive UX. Still, they got it wrong.

Then they miss the simple milestones regarding feature deployment. ReFS should have made it to the client UI. Still nowhere to be found.

Deihmos

GrzegorzWidla said,
7 was tiny compared to Vista. You've got it all wrong. Windows 10 is enormous development under the hood. You are completely missing that it's a single OS for phones, tablets, game consoles, IoT devices, wearables, laptops, desktops, VR and AR headsets and even 84" conference room multi-touch screens. And even if we ignore that then changes for PCs alone are larger than in 7 as well. Design language is tiny part of it.

Too bad it isn't good on tablets unlike Win 8.1.

GrzegorzWidla

Deihmos said,
Too bad it isn't good on tablets unlike Win 8.1.

Too bad 8.1 fails grandma test while 10 does not.

neo1911

1 year too early.

ATLien_0

I would rather see them take their time on this one. There still seem to be a lot of bugs, and ui inconsistencies. Is it really that hard for them to finalize a fully polished os. I'm betting they still haven't gotten rid of the relics from the 9x era in the os

desitunez

VPN broke in latest fast ring build 10162 , hoping that doesnt get passed into RTM.

Malisk

I'll probably not take part in the public beta ;) so this sounds good for upgrading around this fall then, or at least to evaluate the state around then.

If you can hold your horses, it can seriously be super valuable to wait at least a month after "Release to Web" for reviews and user impressions to have a good few weeks to trickle in. So much will be answered during that short time about everything from driver performance for your specific gear to general software stability, potentially saving many headaches.

Maybe it's just me growing old? I more and more often hear Murtaugh's "I'm too old for this ****" echo in my head when I think of early adopter fun.

Edited by , Jul 6 2015, 7:18am :
Pluto is a Planet

Nah I'm gonna do the exact same thing and am recommending other people do it too. "At least a month" is exactly what I'd recommend. Maybe I'll upgrade my work computer to Windows 10 to try it out.

swanlee

I just can't believe how bad it is on a Tablets compared to Win 8.1. All through the TP people have said hey we need to wait to judge it until it is done but it is obvious they just simply threw away all the good things that Win 8.1 did on tablet in order to distance themselves from it which is stupid.

Win 10 is a horrible downgrade for tablet users and it is sad as the Surface line of tablets are actually starting to get good traction and has a good future. Why gimp such potential by throwing it all away to favor desktop users who complained? Tablet users had no problem with win 8.1 it is by far the best Tablet OS their is. Win 10 has a Desktop mode and a Tablet mode why couldn't Tablet mode act more like win 8.1? That would have no effect on the desktop users.

Win 10's reliance on taskbars, address bars, tab bars, navigation bars and removing alot of good and natural swipe commands is just a horrible experience on Tablets and it is troubling that MS went this route when they did not have to.

Win 10 takes up more screen space on useless always on desktop GUi elements tablets will always have smaller screen very screen real estate is very important and it also removes alot of the efficient natural swipe controls in favor of a more Win 7 experience on Tablets. Win 7 was a complete and utter failure on tablets for a reason.

yung_pharma

"Win 10 has a Desktop mode and a Tablet mode why couldn't Tablet mode act more like win 8.1"

Maybe because tablet mode is not as great as many believe it to be

"Win 10's reliance on taskbars, address bars, tab bars, navigation bars and removing alot of good and natural swipe commands is just a horrible experience on Tablets and it is troubling that MS went this route when they did not have to."

Swipes were not intuitive and hard for many to comprehend. If MS has came up with Win8 before ios, people would have been more open to swipes, but that is not the case.

"Win 10 takes up more screen space on useless always on desktop GUi elements tablets will always have smaller screen very screen real estate is very important and it also removes alot of the efficient natural swipe controls in favor of a more Win 7 experience on Tablets. Win 7 was a complete and utter failure on tablets for a reason."

I hear a lot of Win8 lovers say this. As someone who was one of the first jump on Win 8 and defend, I honestly do not see this as a problem. In exchange less screen real estate, I have do less guessing of what my next swipe will do. IMO, users will always take a lower cognitive burden over chrome issues.

pmbAustin

Do what I'm going to do... I'll update my desktop, but I'm NOT updating my Surface Pro 3.

There's a significant update planned for this fall, to coincide with the release of Windows 10 Mobile (for phones and small tablets), and I can only imagine it will include additional fixes and enhancements to "tablet mode" and Continuum.

For the record, while I agree it's a major step backwards, playing with Tablet Mode in the latest build is significantly better and less buggy than it was. I still have a ton of issues, but at least it's "mostly usable" which wasn't true even just a few builds ago.

Also, the apps will be continuously updated independently of the OS, so I'm hoping many of them get better "tablet mode" implementations, and things like the Edge browser get "full screen browsing" at some point. We'll see.

But there's no law you have to upgrade immediately, and given that there will be a steady cadence of fixes and improvements over the coming year, you can choose to take the free upgrade whenever you want during that time.

sinetheo

But they have no problem with their cr*ppy Android phones swiping. I do not see them freak out with the start button or I should say orb not on their phones?

I got used to the reflexes and aero so much on Windows 7 I hated 8.1 at first but had to adjust due to my exams MCSA requiring hyper-V. I survived just fine and got a surface.

I agree. My coworker with a SP1 laughed at WIndows 10 as we can do so much more than 8.1. Tablet mode was frustrating too. Onscreen keyboards are sporadic and some stuff I had to toggle tablet on and off multiple times.

Windows 10.1 or redstone better support swipes.

Swipes are natural Windows 8 haters on a freaking tablet. Again ... these haters do the swipes on their ipads and Android phones all the time. PLEASE MS INCLUDE THEM AGAIN and CHARMS back on the surface~!!

coth

Those swipes and horizontal scrolling weren't popular. Windows 10 looks classic on tablets, very much like Android.

The main problem is desktop. There are lots of touch elements on desktop and lots of dated Windows 8 controls, like editboxes, context menues.

Speaking for UI in overall there are many places where UI isn't animated, polished and aligned.

And bugs of course.

sinetheo

Well in 2012 people had desktops when 8.0 came so of course it was not natural.

Today we have tablets and there is no need to cripple tablet mode.

The surface and Surface pro and even the lennovo Yoga are the top selling devices! It is 2015 now and a terrible time. I bet most users just now upgrading who never did this have no idea what they gave up because the haters started to whine so much.

For the tablet mode it needs to be on. I will be a 8.1 die hard if necessary

Aokromes

It's way to broken to be "completed" unless completed means feature completed.

mike10

we are doomed...

MS Bob 10

It's simple. They just declare one specific build as complete and keep on "improving" (removing features and options we want and forcing features we don't want) via updates. Now you don't even get a choice of stopping updates :p Sort of like a rolling release garbageware.

Trent Smith

"Microsoft has been working on Windows 10 for several years"

Only if Win10 = Vista SP10! :)

sinetheo

I think WindowsME is more appropriate. Even XP RTM was more ready ... FYI XP was not God back in 2001 like the die hards who swear it is the only stable version of WIndows today in 2015 to trust.

It took 2004 with SP 2 before it was blessed by corporate IT departments who kept WIndows2000 and WIndows 98 for 8 years instead.

Like XP it will take awhile and then people will call 10 the next XP. But right now in July of 2015 it most certainly not the XP. That title belongs to Windows 7.

noobient

Yay. In other news, I still can't connect to our Hyper-V servers via MMC (permission denied). This has been like this since the very first builds. Been reported by numerous people, no fix whatsoever.

awergh

so this isnt just my configuration then,
I did notice it worked fine as domain admin but not as a user that is only a hyper-v administrator which is really far from ideal!

Aergan

gradinkov said,
Yay. In other news, I still can't connect to our Hyper-V servers via MMC (permission denied). This has been like this since the very first builds. Been reported by numerous people, no fix whatsoever.

It's the same with some of the other MMC's also, e.g. task scheduler. It will connect just fine to the Windows Server 10 Technical Preview 2 host though.
They pulled a similar stint with Windows 8 when it was in technical preview / consumer preview connecting to 2008R2. The RTM release was fixed to allow it to communicate with previous versions, so I'm expecting the same here.

noobient

Ah, good to know, fingers crossed then.

Kelxin

Huh, and I thought Microsoft got every other version of end user windows right... Windows 3.1 good, 95 bad, 98 good, ME bad, XP good, vista bad, Win7 good, Win8 bad, Win10? ..

Looks like they're about to break that pattern, already warning my 300+ business clients.

Jarrichvdv said,

Uhm, did you use the latest builds? They are very, very stable and look pretty polished.

Better question, have YOU actually USED the latest builds or just installed them and surfed the web for a couple minutes on them? Stable and polished my ass.

Redz0ne

Your logic missed Windows 2000 and 8.1, also what about 98SE and all the other editions and service packs? Yawn if you dont like it don't upgrade.

Kelxin

Redz0ne said,
Your logic missed Windows 2000 and 8.1, also what about 98SE and all the other editions and service packs? Yawn if you dont like it don't upgrade.

1. I said End user windows. I excluded all of the enterprise versions of windows which included NT 3.51, NT 4.0, Windows 2000 Pro and all of the server editions of windows, so if you want to get technical about me "missing" copies of windows, you could have listed 38 more.

2. Windows 98SE and 8.1 are sub versions of 98 and windows 8 (thus it having their related names within them), if they were a new version of windows they would have been called something different (would be the same as calling Windows XP Service pack 1,2 and 3 different copies of windows especially with some of the major feature sets added in some of the service packs).

As far as the "if you don't like it, don't upgrade" comment, I can tell you are a consumer and only a consumer. Many of us on here actually SUPPORT consumers instead of just being one. In my case, I support over 300 businesses, and I would prefer for Windows 7 not to be the next Windows XP (it has just been a blast reformatting 1200 computers and finding random drivers over the past year because so many people despise Windows 8).

Harpo

Kelxin said,
Huh, and I thought Microsoft got every other version of end user windows right... Windows 3.1 good, 95 bad, 98 good, ME bad, XP good, vista bad, Win7 good, Win8 bad, Win10? ..

Windows 95 was NOT bad and I wish people would stop quoting that nonsense. It was one of the most successful Windows launches in history. I really hate that stupid Star Trek Odd/Even crap.

Redz0ne

No not a consumer and not a big fan of Win 10 either.

It's that hit, miss, hit, miss nonsense you are spouting that got me :)

Raa

Harpo said,

I really hate that stupid Star Trek Odd/Even crap.

Not really sure where you got that analogy from.

JaLooNz

The patch system doesn't seem ready for RTM. There are all sorts of issues upgrading the system and I foresee having a RTM in this state will result in lots of systems stuck on the build.

The start menu is also not particular reliable, with poor performance despite a SSD. Having such breaking issues will doom W10 right at the start.

Dutchie64

Hmm..... The OS -might- be ready (kind of...) but the state of the apps is terrible. There's a loooong list of complaints in the Insider hub on all apps, and no sign of fixes. I know the apps will be upadted through the Store, but still..

Win10 will be receiving a luke warm welcome I'm afraid. It looks a shiny and new, but after playing with it for some hours, the more annoying bits will come to light.

Vishwal

Why people here think MS is no build 10163 ?? They might be around 10250 build. Haven't you people seen that 10162 brings a drastic change in stability from previous builds ? Even if they release the OS with many bugs, it would be constantly updated for next 3-4 months to give proper stability to the OS. Wasn't it true for Windows 7, 8 ??

coth

10176 is known to be RC. So RTM woudn't be far away from it.

.Neo

Wow. (Not in a good way)

Tyron Junior

already running the finished version

sinetheo

It most certainly not ready.

I just had a debate with someone here pn why corporations won't touch any .0 releases and one client who waits until something is 5 years old before it is ready. Especially on the server. :-)

I will be avoiding this release and will wait for a bit until redstone and maybe even more as I find bugs even in 8.1 which I have little time for.

If it aint broke don't fix it!

This just confirms my point not trust software released. Not just conservative IT departments afraid of change where writeups happen if a bug appears too.

ZombieFly

oh dear oh dear

while i'm a developer myself and get the whole release cycle thing, i think given what happened with 8 it would be advisable for MS NOT to release this now, as it's nowhere near ready to replace the bad taste people have from the 8 release. This will not go down well with the press / simpleton user. They will form opinions after 20 seconds of use :|

agtsmith

Windows 10 will never feel "complete" given all the weird UI decisions they made. It might be pretty stable, but looking at it gives you the impression of a work-in-progress. For instance:

1. Open Start Menu, look on the apps on the left pane
2. App names are written with font size "A"
3. Open jump-list. Jump list items are written with font size "B" (bigger)
4. Right click an item on jump list. The menu items are written with font size "C" (even bigger)

To this day I cannot comprehend what is the reasoning of having this kind of inconsistency.

Turmoggy

You also can't rename apps or programs that are pinned to the start menu. How could microsoft miss a simple feature like that?

Elliot B.

Looking forward to fresh-installing the RTM in a week or two :)

+ir0nw0lf

If you meant 3 1/2 weeks, then yeah. :D

mcloum

Must admit i tried this on my Dell work laptop and the performance is terrible. Im sure its down to drivers but generally since Win8 Microsoft have been pretty decent at supporting hardware without official drivers.

seta-san

Is anyone troubled that this article seems unsourced?

(Account no longer active)

The second screen shot in an earlier article (http://www.neowin.net/news/gallery-screenshots-emerge-of-windows-10-build-10163) shows RTM date as being 9th July.

seta-san

Wzor isn't an official source. The only thing we know for certain is that it will be before the end of the month

Raa

Trouble is, they don't have long to get an RTM build into the pipe for distribution. It really does have to be signed off very soon.

Not saying it's ready for it, of course.

(Account no longer active)

Cool, so no more reminiscence of Windows Vista/7 anywhere (ie. icons)? Now that's what I call 'complete'.

WinMacLin Guy

I know MS is signing off quickly and releasing on the 29th so that they have the new OS ready by the back-to-school shopping season. So my suggestion to them is to release RTM builds only for new PCs, and hold off upgrades for everyone else until Fall/Winter. This will give them more time to test and polish the operating system. As it stands now, Windows 10 looks very promising (for me it is the best version of Windows in years) but it needs more polish and there are still many issues in the system which I would consider to be RTM blockers, at least for existing PCs. I am sure many people with existing PCs are willing to wait a few months longer for a more polished OS.

Gungel

If that's true than our company will certainly wait until Redstone. Hopefully by then they will have fixed most problems and we should also see the next Windows Server release.

pmbAustin

That's pretty smart actually.

I think most casual desktop users can update pretty much immediately.

Tablet/touch users should probably wait until the Fall.

Businesses and those who need more stability should probably wait until next Spring/Redstone.

Either way, it's all in the first year, and all "free" (except to businesses of course).

briangw

People seem to forget that every iteration of Windows has had their bugs at release. I can think as far back as Windows 3 for example.

Kelxin

briangw said,
People seem to forget that every iteration of Windows has had their bugs at release. I can think as far back as Windows 3 for example.

Bugs, sure. Every copy of windows that has existed even with all of the current updates / service packs / patches etc STILL has bugs. The levels of bugs is what matters. If they release now, this will be another Windows 95 / ME / Vista / 8 (which is bad)

briangw

Kelxin said,

Bugs, sure. Every copy of windows that has existed even with all of the current updates / service packs / patches etc STILL has bugs. The levels of bugs is what matters. If they release now, this will be another Windows 95 / ME / Vista / 8 (which is bad)

Don't forget XP. The first version was crappy and only got really good when SP2 came out. Out of those, ME and Vista worked great for me but I did have newer hardware at the time.

But with 10, on my SP3, the only issue I have currently is battery life seems to drain quicker than 8.1 does, although the later builds have improved it. Not quite there yet.

cork1958

From my trial run with Windows 10, I have to agree with what seems to be most responses to this topic. Windows 10 is not even remotely close to being done!

In fact,
I'd call it a worse disaster than Vista was when first released! I even went so far as wipe out my copy of Windows 10 and installed the newly released Debian Jessie, which, if I may add, works EXACLTY as it should out of the box!

My other machines will be staying on Windows 7 until support ends in 2020, if that's when MS really cuts off support!

wingliston

Year of the Linux desktop!

purrcher

I hope a lot of issues got squashed this week then... Now show us the life cycle chart for Windows 10 as a service... I have a hard time picturing its the normal 10 years that Vista, 7 and 8 got...

jimmyfal

So many bugs still, I just don't get how this can be ready. Too many, just too many. People don't give a crap about the big things that run right, they care about all the little things that go wrong, and there are so, so many things. Pointless to start listing them it would just go on an on. Did a system restore on one yesterday just to see what would happen, and everything stopped working, had to reinstall.

Obry

I hope my problems are mostly driver related but for me personally it is barely usable. My Logitech mouse quits working randomly (pointer works but can't click on anything; need to Ctrl+Alt+Del, Sign Off and Sign In again).

If we get stable Logitech, Intel, etc drivers soon and there are no major crashes I can live with it but I don't feel the OS is polished enough just yet considering their ambitions...

trojan_market

I think driver related issues is mostly up to hardware maker to fix. but there are many bugs that is OS related. maybe we get different builds than people internally in Microsoft for sure but these public builds even recent ones are pretty buggy

Konstantine

For all those saying "there are a plethora of bugs" and s**t like that, their build version has jumped from 10166 to 10176. We are on 10162. Comparing 10130 to 10158, there were several fixes + perfromance improvements. JFYI.

-=:DELETE:=-

Windows 10 (IMHO) is nowhere near ready for release, there are problems all over the OS. From things like limited colour palettes for Taskbar Themes, to inconsistent UI design to instability in many areas causing hangs, crashes, etc.

This has got to be the most rushed to market OS in History, and it shows. Whether you like the new UI look or not (in my case) you can't deny that it has numerous inconsistencies, ranging from non-matching icon designs, to poor colour choices and too much switching between Apps and Classic styles.

There seems to be no logic as to where to find many of Windows settings, some being in Control Panel, some in the Management Consoles and others in the Settings 'App', even then some are duplicated in multiple places.

The Start Menu is little more than a pop version of the Start Screen and will in no way appease those who wanted it back when they got Windows 8.

Yet again it tries too hard to please both the Tablet touchscreen crowd and the Desktop crowd and manages to alienate both. It just looks and feels like a mess and I don't think people are going to be anymore keen for this version than they were for Windows 8.

I will download a free ISO on release day to take advantage of the free offer but will not install it unless/until some major changes are made to address all these issues. Until then I will be sticking with Windows 8.x as it is far better than Windows 10...

wotsit

Still can't quite beleive it given even the most recent builds. Fingers crossed!

shockz

This is exactly why Microsoft should go back to internal testing, less public builds. Windows 7 had numerous bugs in the leaked builds prior to RTM. This is no different. Not to mention each build they are releasing has hundreds of bug fixes. They are rumored to be 10-20 builds ahead of where the last public build was released. People are getting bent out of shape over nothing. Every major release of Windows has had a update/patch rollup the day of public release. Calm down.

DeusProto

10-20 builds? Not quite.

10176 was artificially jumped to after build 10166 and the public has build 10162. So, at best, 5 or 6 builds.
http://ms-vnext.net/Win10esds/

+Mobius Enigma

Wow...

So many OS development experts here on Neowin. I am surprised that Microsoft hasn't hired every single person here, as they all seem to understand OS engineering and software development better than Microsoft.

*smacks head on screen*


These comments are just insane, especially all the 'absolute' doom and gloom assessments.

If anyone here has worked on Windows development, at Microsoft, in the past (post SP2), then you can comment on the state of the Windows 10 build and what RTM means and what the first set of installation updates include, and how it works.

If not, maybe find out before you proclaim the buggy experience you had with last week/month's build is what people will get at the end of July, because it is not.

Does anyone understand the progression of how fixes are rolled into builds, and how RTM doesn't mean final bits, how installation/update process realtime updates before the update/install is processed, or how the initial updates are gauged for first round updates?


As for the quality of builds, there are a lot of things that are not rolled into each build, this is why you see the latest builds fixing hundreds of bugs in a one or two day period. Code is pulled, worked on, tested, worked on, tested, and then the correct code is rolled back into the OS. There could literally be thousands of fixed bugs that are still waiting to be rolled into each daily update.

These updates will continue until the release date, and with the new model will continue more frequently than any version of Windows in the past.


Having been involved as a consultant and partner in the development process of NT since 1991 (yes 1991 before public builds were available), I can assure readers that Windows 10 is ahead of every Windows NT release in terms of quality, stability, and known issues - and this is said based on the latest builds, without even seeing the RTM bits that will be distributed.


So chill, and pay attention. Not all bug fixes are listed in the release notes, and there have been almost 1000 known bugs fixed in the builds from just last week. This is where the side work is being rolled back into the main build. ...And this is not any different that what I saw with NT 3.1, 3.51, 4.0, Win2K, XP, Vista, and 7. (You would be surprised of the list of bugs I have between the final Release Client and the RTM bits for Windows 7, which was an amazingly solid beta build - yet it was far from complete or perfect.)

....

The ill informed doom and gloom comments are a good reason Microsoft should keep the technical testers and the general public separate, as they did with NT prior to the development of WinXP. There is no reason that non-technical users witness the 'messy' part of development, especially when they seem to correlate it with the quality of the final product.

Xilo

I actually worked on OS development (AIX) and it's exactly as you said. Bug fixes tend to go in much later builds than reported and with lots of bugs being fixed it takes time because the developer has to fix the bug, it gets checked into, code check, and then QA tested. There is also generally a cut off point towards the last two weeks for what can go into RTM. Crashes, memory leaks, and performance issues usually get prioritized first and smaller bugs that don't affect usability generally go into release day/week patches. All of this takes time and it's especially hectic towards the end of the release.

devHead

Don't confuse us with the facts Mobius Enigma!

Raa

Mobius Enigma said,
Wow...

what RTM means and what the first set of installation updates include, and how it works.


This should not be a thing IMO.
I realise it is with the way the internet is these days, but it's really no excuse for taking a bit more time to iron out your code.

And I'm not just looking at Microsoft here either...

+Mobius Enigma

Raa said,

This should not be a thing IMO.
I realise it is with the way the internet is these days, but it's really no excuse for taking a bit more time to iron out your code.

And I'm not just looking at Microsoft here either...

Using that logic nothing would be released. When is 'ironed out' truly achieved? With software this complex, the answer is never, so an arbitrary metric or cap has to be used.

Also consider this is the first time we are seeing Windows as a continually updating OS, which by definition it will always be in a state of development, with milestones.

Everyone wants to ship bug free perfect software, it never will happen, but at least there won't be a wait for SP1, as fixes will get applied with feature changes and updates much faster.

Side Note...
(The PCA system has been multilayered and brilliant since Win7, and it will be a key tool to keep software running well even as the OS evolves and gets quick updates, with both its database and ability to catch code in real time and correct for discrepancies seamlessly. The PCA is also what makes software running on Win7/8 almost crashproof.)

The final version might not be one that made it out to the public testers. I will be sticking with Windows XP for now!

Izlude

+1 to XP's MIDI friendliness.. wish it would have been passed to Win7 8 and 10 :(

deadonthefloor

Izlude said,
....

Neowin should do a story on everything we've lost throughout the years.

/waves longingly at WMC.

laserfloyd

TrekRich said,
The final version might not be one that made it out to the public testers. I will be sticking with Windows XP for now!

I'm going back to 8. Windows98 that is.


:p

deadonthefloor

laserfloyd said,
:p

Original '95 for me. I like my start button in the middle of the taskbar.

SharpGreen

TrekRich said,
The final version might not be one that made it out to the public testers. I will be sticking with Windows XP for now!

Then please get off the internet.

I just use it now for some really old software that wont run on anything else. I might virtualise it off and then move to Ubuntu or something.

WinMunkee

Which is great for a hobbyist, but not the average person.

neufuse

Wonder how many patches there will be on release to public day

+warwagon

neufuse said,
Wonder how many patches there will be on release to public day

My guess is more than 30?

Raa

Service Pack 1 incoming... :p

Gaara sama

XP still work Good no question ask , and XP are the best operate system more compatible then all

Rigby

Gaara sama said,
XP still work Good no question ask , and XP are the best operate system more compatible then all

Not sure if serious.

Izlude

lol does anyone remember connecting to cable internet without a router and enabling sharing as public? some worm wiggled into the system. system restore fixed it, but i was curious to see what would happen... yes security holes do affect home users "passively" you don't even need to visit a website to get infected.

Raa

Gaara sama said,
XP still work Good

Said no-one ever.

tN0

Will Microsoft listen to user feedback on the readiness of the OS? They have shown that they are willing to change according to Insider feedback and to me it seems that almost all Insiders think that Windows 10 is not yet ready.

At least they should not sigh off before the 29th!

yung_pharma

What if MS has a more stable build than insiders? The thing, we do not know how far MS is at this point. All we know is what they give us. So I am going to wait for RTM before making this pre-mature conclusions based on the (relatively) limited information we (insiders) have at hand.

tN0

Of course they have more stable builds internally. That was not my point.

I was saying that even with an RTM candidate this week they should continue to compile better builds until the very last day and release the latest of those candidates as RTM. Not the first they think is "OK".

yung_pharma

How do we know it's the first they think is ok? Probably this was the latest of the builds they considered ok.

Turmoggy

I'm still getting the multiple instances of the calculator app when launched bug.

+Ryster

I thought the whole point of Windows 10 was that it would never be "completed" due to it now being a continuously serviced product. As such, isn't this headline completely wrong?

ranjan

Windows 10 RTM build will give a clear picture of how Windows 10 mobile will look like. Thanks to universalization.

DaveBG

If they release it at this state it will be similar to the windows 8 failure.

laserfloyd

Windows 8 confused people because: tiles. This isn't even remotely confusing. It looks and behaves more like 7 does than 8 did at launch. I run it on an old machine and I've yet to have issues with basic functionality which is what most people will use it for.

Ethan Alvarée

So this week is it? Any improvements / bug fixes that could be made between July 9 and July 29 won't make it into RTM?

Raa

Piles, that's probably why they'll have day 1 updates...

Turmoggy

Right Clicking on file explorer on the taskbar takes a while to show up. Still not optimize.

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